Doug Collins Confirmation Hearing

Chairman Moran (00:00):

From Michigan, welcome to this committee. I look forward especially to working with the ranking member, the new ranking member. That was me before you. And I, we… You and I have had the experience of working together previously and I look forward to continuing our efforts to work together to see that veterans are well cared for and that members of this committee have an opportunity to express their views and make a difference in this arena. My work on this committee is almost always driven by what I hear from veterans, particularly at home in Kansas, but also across the country. We'll hear from a lot of veterans organizations as well, and this is about how do we make the VA work better? What is it doing well? What is it not doing well? How do we solve the problems that veterans face in this country? Sometimes one at a time, but I hope often veterans as citizens in a group.

(01:03)
As chairman, I will work to solve problems and deliver results to help veterans access healthcare and benefits they've earned and achieved in their success in their service. I want them to be successful after their service. And I expect the next Secretary of Veterans Affairs to share a similar focus.

(01:22)
The role of the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs is critical. America's national security is dependent upon an all-volunteer military and a VA that is successful in helping service members thrive as veterans is key to bolstering recruitment and keeping our nation safe. Millions of veterans and their loved ones rely on the VA to access higher education and job training, buy a house, open a small business, cope with service-connected conditions, access healthcare and more.

(01:51)
Helping veterans achieve those goals is often complicated by the fact that VA is one of the largest bureaucracies within the federal government with more than 400,000 employees. That includes a massive physical footprint that spans the globe. Our facilities are aging, a legacy IT system and an annual budget well over $300 billion. We must have a VA secretary who understands the VA mission, who will help refocus the department to put veterans first and who recognized the importance of the VA in serving veterans and contributing to a safe and successful future for our nation.

(02:32)
I'm grateful to have Congressman Doug Collins here today to testify about his nomination to be the Secretary of Veterans Affairs. He knows firsthand the benefits and challenges of military service and many issues facing veterans and their families. I'm grateful for Congressman Collins' interest in serving in this capacity and I look forward to hearing today how he plans to improve and support the lives of his fellow veterans if confirmed.

(02:58)
I know that military service is family service, so I want to recognize and thank Congressman Collins' family, including his wife, Lisa, daughter Jordan, and sons, Cameron and Copeland who are with us here today. Welcome to your family Congressman. Before yielding to the ranking member, I want to recognize former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Dennis McDonough. I'm grateful to Secretary McDonough for his hard work and his dedication to veterans and their families, and I wish him all the best in his next chapter. With that, I yield to the ranking member Senator Blumenthal for his opening remarks.

Senator Blumenthal (03:31):

Thanks so much Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here today, Congressman Collins and as well to your family, Lisa, Jordan, and Cameron, and to all of the visitors who are here today, many of them veterans. I'm thrilled to be the ranking member and to have as chairman my friend and colleague, Senator Moran, he and I have a strong working relationship and it exemplifies I think the kind of bipartisanship that has characterized the work of this committee. In fact, we have been a paragon of bipartisanship in the face of the buffeting winds of political polarization on other topics, and I look forward to fighting and advocating for veterans in the face of some pretty heavy threats.

(04:25)
I was chagrined yesterday that there was no mention in the inaugural address by President Trump about veterans. I was disappointed to see in the executive orders that a hiring freeze will be imposed apparently on the VA, and I am hopeful that you, Congressman Collins… I'm going to be very blunt. Will be the kind of advocate that the VA and our veterans will need in this administration. There will be potentially heavy pressures on you to cut and slash to reduce access and eligibility because the VA frankly is a target-rich environment for cost cutters and we know that there is a Department of Government Efficiency looking for those kinds of cost-cutting opportunities. I look forward to supporting you and bolstering your efforts to defend and advocate our veterans who must always be a priority.

(05:36)
I want to thank Senator Moran, but also Senator Tester who was such a strong advocate as well as Dennis McDonough and most particularly in our joint efforts to pass the PAC Act. President Biden and Secretary McDonough were instrumental in providing more care and more benefits to veterans than ever before when they were exposed to toxic chemicals or burn pits, not only on the battlefield but also in training. I think every member of this committee can be proud of that effort.

(06:14)
You mentioned in your opening that "Timely access to care and benefits for every eligible veteran is job one." I hope that will be your mantra. It certainly is ours. Unfortunately, veterans are confronted with losing access to VA's direct care system in an unprecedented number of referrals going into the community. As we discussed during our meeting, you and I, and I appreciate your coming by to talk to me, there certainly is an important role for community care in the timely delivery of care to veterans, but it can't be at the expense of the VA direct care system, which many vets prefer and rely on.

(07:02)
I have two sons who have served. One is a combat infantry officer in Afghanistan. The other is a Navy SEAL, and most particularly my Navy SEAL son has made use of veterans benefits and facilities on the West Coast in West Haven, so I know firsthand the extraordinary care. Really, it's a gold standard of care that our veterans facilities provide, and particularly in the area of mental health. We need to invest as well as in modernizing infrastructure and facilities such as we are doing in West Haven.

(07:39)
Today I want to learn more about your plans to lead the largest civilian agency in the federal government, literally the largest civilian agency. An organization of more than 450,000 employees, comprising 20% of our whole federal workforce. That's an awesome responsibility. I'm especially interested in how you plan to build a workforce culture that encourages employees to speak up with concern and criticism and offer ideas to drive improvements. Not one to seek retribution or demand fealty and loyalty at the expense of the quality of veterans care.

(08:23)
If confirmed, it's your duty to treat every VA employee and veteran regardless of gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation with the dignity and respect they deserve. You and I have acknowledged our differences and we will have differences of opinion, especially on some social policies, but I'll need your assurance that your views will not negatively impact veterans seeking the care and benefits they have earned. They've earned those benefits.

(08:55)
In our meeting, I appreciated your commitment to put the law first and respect the rule of law with regard to abortion care and counseling. I expect the administration to consider the existing rule legally binding unless it is replaced or struck down. I believe that rolling back this policy would unnecessarily risk the lives and health of pregnant veterans in states with abortion bans and care restrictions in the post-Dobbs era.

(09:29)
During the last Trump administration, we know outsiders exerted significant influence on the VA. In fact, GAO looked into and substantiated that three individuals, private citizens, Bruce Moskovitz, Isaac Perlmutter, and Mark Sherman referred to as the Mar-a-Lago 3, played a key role in several high-profile decisions outside of the formal VA decision-making process.

(09:59)
These included VA senior-level personnel decisions and involvement in negotiations for the VA electronic record system, among other issues. I hope you'll push back, push back strongly on inappropriate influences that operate outside of well-established federal transparency rules, especially when they are not acting in the best interests of veterans. Whether it's ideologically-minded groups with ulterior motives or the array of big tech executives that we saw on the platform yesterday at the inaugural, including Elon Musk.

(10:39)
Congressman Collins, if confirmed, you must be the decision-maker at the VA. You must be their advocate and keep the needs of veterans at the forefront. There will undoubtedly be pressure on you to scale back and cut costs at every opportunity, but I can't emphasize how important it will be to me, and I hope all of us on this committee, that you fight those efforts with every fiber in your being.

(11:14)
I'm hopeful we have shared priorities including upgrading the VA facilities around the country, particularly healthcare facilities and suicide prevention, which I know is a priority of yours. We discussed it when you visited with me. If you're confirmed, I welcome the opportunity to work with you, to support you, to advocate with you in this administration and to improve services to veterans in [inaudible 00:11:43] across the country.

(11:43)
Before I turn it over to Senator Moran, I want to just offer on a personal note, I am incredibly disheartened that the Trump administration is canceling the flights of nearly 1,660 Afghan refugees who were already cleared by the US government to resettle in the United States. These allies aided our troops in Afghanistan. Whatever you think about the conflict there, the risks to these Afghan allies are so dire and dangerous and many of our veterans groups have been advocates for them as you know. In fact, the strongest advocates for resettling those at-risk Afghan allies are the veterans who benefited from their protection and their service, which involved putting their own lives and their families on the line, and yet those Afghan partner forces and their families are stuck at the risk of harm in areas around the world.

(13:03)
Our nation has a sacred promise that we've made to do right by the men and women who risk their lives for our freedoms and democracy and do right for their families, and that includes those translators, the guards, the others that put their backs in targets and became our loyal friends, and I will keep fighting to ensure that they're resettled to the United States and pushed back against any attempts by the administration to renege on those promises to our service members, veterans, and Afghan allies. And again, I want to offer thanks to all of the VSOs, all the individual veterans who came to the defense of those Afghan at-risk allies and have joined us in urging aid and freedom for them. Again thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Moran (13:57):

Senator Blumenthal, thank you. I now call on one of our colleagues who's a member of this committee, Congressman Kevin Kramer is a former colleague in the House of our witness, the nominee, and I now recognize Senator Kramer.

Senator Kramer (14:12):

Thank you, Chairman Moran. Ranking member Blumenthal. The titles look good on both of you. I'm looking forward to a productive term and it is a great honor and really a blessing for me to be able to be here to introduce my former colleague, friend, Navy veteran, a military chaplain, accomplished attorney, Doug Collins. In fact, if we were to write up, there's a lot of talk these days about people being unqualified for these positions. When the reality is in our great system of self-governance, the only qualification is that the elected people want you. But if we were to write up the qualifications for VA administrator, for VA secretary, Doug Collins' picture would probably be right next to the description.

(15:06)
Working with Doug on big bipartisan things. I remember in the House, one of the most unlikely things in the world for me to get involved in was copyright law and looking out for the rights of songwriters, and yet somehow Doug's big personality and big brain sucked me right in, and I'm glad I did. It was important work and it was kind of really precedent-setting work in the area of entertainment. But he's got that kind of a personality, an engaging personality that attracts people to what he's working on, and I think that says a lot.

(15:47)
I mentioned he's an accomplished attorney because that's really important. That's an important part of both understanding Senator Blumenthal, the law and enforcing the law, carrying out the laws, defending the laws that are passed by Congress and become part of the bureaucracy.

(16:10)
Obviously him being a veteran in the Navy and Air Force reservist is important. He relates directly to the experiences of our veterans. He was deployed to Iraq. He knows a thing or two about the experience of the veteran. I think that's part of what, to your point, Senator Blumenthal makes the VA care so special. It's not that they're better doctors or better psychiatrists or better nurses or technicians, it's that they're empathetic. That's what I hear from my veterans, so oftentimes is while they appreciate access to community care, they appreciate the empathy of a fellow veteran, and Doug brings that.

(16:57)
But guys, he's a chaplain. I mean, come on. How perfect is that? Because to me, one of my great frustrations, one of my great frustrations about the VA, I mean, this is last summer, a $15 billion shortfall is announced. Where was all the communication before that? Where was the transparency that we would seek before that? Well, it was a little CYA, I think, and then suddenly panic sets in, fear and anxiety, uncertainty, even to the point where Congress itself passed a supplemental. We all remember it very well. A supplemental where a single dollar was never used because lo and behold, there wasn't a $15 billion shortfall. How does that happen in a competent agency that's looking out for the veteran?

(17:50)
And so Doug, first, he brings the legislative experience. He helped pass the VA act, the VA Mission Act, the VA accountability and Whistleblower acts, these things that provided the transparency which we seek. He knows the intent of Congress. He's a lawyer who understands them, but he's a chaplain who understands the recipient and the need at the moment. And I'm just really, really grateful that he's my friend. I've known many, many good people, Republicans and Democrats who've sought a position in the VA and every one of them was well-intentioned and every one of them was certain that they would break through, that they would be the one that would make the difference, that they'd be the one that would take the opportunities for care closer to home and put them on the front page of the website instead of burying them deep so that they never find them.

(18:52)
But we do have now in the commander-in-chief and a cabinet that he's picking, people who will put the veteran first, not the bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is important. The service providers are important, but the most important person is the veteran, and that's who Doug Collins will look out for, and I'm really, really, really grateful that he's my friend, that he's willing to step into this gap and I'm ready to support him in every way possible. And so I introduced to you Congressman Doug Collins.

Chairman Moran (19:27):

Senator Kramer, thank you for your statement and support your introduction of the nominee and thank you for your membership and efforts and hard work on this committee. Douglas A. Collins, you and I need to rise and I'm going to ask you to take an oath.

(19:45)
Would you raise your right hand?

(19:49)
Do you Congressman Doug Collins solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give before the United States Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you God?

Congressman Doug Collins (20:01):

I do.

Chairman Moran (20:01):

Thank you.

(20:08)
Congressman, thank you again for being here and we'll now eagerly await your testimony.

Congressman Doug Collins (20:16):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member Blumenthal, the rest of this committee and the Seniors' committee looking around this committee, seeing people that I've worked with before on both sides of the aisle, and it's good to see you and especially to the new members as well.

(20:27)
I'm honored to be sitting here to be the nominee for the next Secretary of the VA. I'd like to thank my friend Kevin Kramer for that kind introduction. I appreciate his work and I appreciate your work as well. He hit it perfectly. It's about the vet and I thank him for that. I'd also like to thank President Trump for his nomination and for his willingness to have not only confidence in me, but also the veterans of this country. I'm privileged today and I appreciate the chairman and ranking member mentioning my family because I would not be here without them.

(20:56)
My wife of 36 years is with me, Lisa. She's right here. I have my son Copeland and his wife Holly. I have my son Cameron, his fiancee Maddie, and then on the end we have the one that glues us all together and that is Jordan. She is our daughter. But there's also one that probably is watching right now that I'd be remiss if I didn't mention, and it's my eighty-six-year-old father, who spent 31 years as a Georgia State trooper. Dad, I'm here because of you and mom and I love you.

(21:27)
America's the greatest nation on earth and it's the greatest nation on earth I believe because the men and women who serve, it's the men and women who serve and are willing to take the step up to protect the freedoms that we hold so dear. And throughout my two decades of service, I've witnessed this firsthand. I've watched men and women go at their best even when they didn't want to, and they served. And they stood up for our freedoms and they earned the benefits of being in our great veteran system and the VA is there for them.

(21:56)
In addition to being a Navy veteran for a while, I was now been in the United States Air Force for over 23 years. I'm a colonel serving at the Warner Robbins Air Force Base at [inaudible 00:22:04], and I have been able to watch over the years leadership. Leadership is about listening, but it's also about leading. It's also about taking the men and women that you serve with and making sure that you're putting their needs first. When you're in the military, it's about the mission. For me, if I'm confirmed by this body, the VA will be my mission. It'll be the mission to take care of our veterans and to make sure they get the benefits that they deserve.

(22:33)
I'm an Iraq war veteran. I understand burn pits because I slept next to one for many months. I understand this generation that went for time and a time and again, deployment after deployment in a different way than we'd seen many times before in our past wars and the needs that they have. But also being a veteran, I think I also bring something that is unique to this position almost since it became a cabinet position. I'll be the first member of this Hill, House or Senate to serve if confirmed by this body, which I think brings a different perspective to my service here.

(23:05)
Because over the years we've all had our differences in this body and ranking member I appreciate you mentioning, "Yes, we have differences, but we can agree," because I have worked across this aisle to pass major legislation. Thanks to President Trump and this body we passed the First Step Act giving real criminal justice reform with my partner Hakeem Jeffries in the House. Music Modernization Act, which Senator Kramer mentioned. Defend Trade Secrets Act with Chris [inaudible 00:23:29] and many others. These are the kind of things that make big differences when you cross and you give good ideas. For me, it is about having respect for the members. It's about having respect for this committee, and that is what I believe this committee is one of the most bipartisan here. I have earned and worked bipartisanly to make things happen in this country.

(23:47)
Because also I believe that we also have a lot we're in common with on both sides of this committee's dice. I believe we also believe that there is timely access and care for our veterans, for every eligible person. I believe that we're actually supposed to reach out and the Mission Act provides that template that we passed here, that I was a part of passing. The VA Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act, which passed by the way, this body unanimously, that holds our veterans workers and the workers who touch our veterans to the highest standards possible.

(24:14)
I will tell you right now, the veterans VA will not have a stronger fighter for the employees in the workforce than this secretary if confirmed. And also one that we'll make sure that we're held accountable because good work begots good work and others need to be held accountable. We will do that to make sure that we get the best for our veterans. The PAC Act, which was mentioned by the ranking member, something that I think we're still developing and making sure everybody gets the treatment. Just passed the Elizabeth Dole Act, something we're going to have to look at next, I'm looking forward to.

(24:44)
But as we look at this, I do bring one thing. It's going to require your help and it's going to require our mission. I bring to you today two things that will be at the forefront of my service. These are my dog tags. They're a reminder just like every other veteran who served that were part of a bigger unit, and I also bring this bracelet that was made for me by Young Airman. She was keeping watch each night and I'd go by and see her and we'd talk. I was a flatline chaplain at Balad and she had said one night she said, "I've got something for you," and she ran back into her guard shed and she came out with this. She said, "You're always bringing us something and listening." She said, "I want to give you something." Well, what she didn't know is now about 15 years later, if confirmed by this body, this bracelet will be sitting in the secretary of the VA's office reminding me every day of the men and women that we serve. And with that Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Moran (25:37):

Congressman Collins, thank you for your testimony. We'll have a round of questions. I'll start and then ask a couple of questions and then yield to the ranking member.

(25:48)
It would be unexpected if I didn't open my questioning of you in regard to the Mission Act. I was involved in the creation of the Choice Act. We then attempted to improve it, make it more certain with the Mission Act, and my views are highly framed by my days as a member of the House of Representatives in which I represented a congressional district the size of the state of Illinois with no VA hospital. So I care about rural and the distance that those rural veterans face.

(26:20)
So I want to ask if confirmed, will you make certain that the letter and spirit of the Mission Act is followed by every employee in every VA facility and that the veterans are aware of their rights to advocate for themselves and to receive care when they need it, where they want it?

Congressman Doug Collins (26:44):

Mr. Chairman, we had… Been a few years off, I forget to push my button. We'll get it. As we spoke in your office, there's no greater asset and really you've hit at the very issue of why the VA exists. The VA does not exist in and of itself. It exists for the veteran. It exists, and that is why over the past 10 to 15 years in this body, the Mission Act was passed and the intent of that was to make sure that in the delivery of services to the veteran is first and foremost.

(27:13)
And look, you have veteran services that are being delivered in our VA system as it has existed. We also, as you've mentioned, [inaudible 00:27:21], there are VA benefits that are doing through our caregiver and our community care program. At the end of the day, the veteran is getting taken care of. VA care is going to happen. VA care will be there. There'll always be the VA healthcare system for the veteran, but the way that we express that is just like we do in this body, there's difference expressed on how we make it better. We don't do the same things 40 years ago that we still do today if we're still wanting to stay current with what's going on, and our newer veterans deserve every access to finding care where they can. Or in your case, if they have a long way to go, they need to find the care if they want to, but always have the VA as a backup.

(27:55)
For me, the intent of the Mission Act at the end of the day was about how do we make veteran care available to the veteran who needs it and not have the battles over how they get it because they want to be able to have that choice. We're going to continue to do that and following the intent of the Congress in which I passed, that was my intent as well.

Chairman Moran (28:12):

And representative, is that a commitment to, in an answer to what I ask you?

Congressman Doug Collins (28:16):

Yes, it is. We're going to be following the Mission Act. We're going to have the intent. We're going to follow that up, and it's going to be day one understanding that that's why we're there and that nothing's going to hold that up.

Chairman Moran (28:25):

And let me highlight that while I mentioned geography and the distance, there's lots of other concerns in veterans accessing care.

Congressman Doug Collins (28:35):

Yes.

Chairman Moran (28:36):

And I would highlight the importance that the Mission Act can play with high risk mental health and addiction issues. We do not have enough care in the VA or outside the VA, and we need to make certain that wherever that care comes from, it's available when it's needed. True?

Congressman Doug Collins (28:54):

Yes. Mr. Chairman, I think that is a key and you're seeing this all across and you just hit on something very close to my heart, and that is especially the mental health aspect of this. As you can see, and Jordan and I've talked about this a lot, Jordan has a physical disability, she can't walk, and people would look at Jordan and they would have immediate sympathy, but if someone was to come in and say, "I'm having trouble thinking clearly, or my brain's not working right," we tend to repulse. I want a condition in which the VA and our community caregivers are drawing near because suicide prevention is one of our biggest issues and we've got to be able to draw the best and brightest. This is an issue health-wide, not just in the VA, but also in our communities as well. So I want to make sure we're getting the opportunity, so as you just said, Mr. Chairman, that that member who needs it can find it and find it quickly and efficiently.

Chairman Moran (29:38):

Let me talk about for a moment, transition to civilian life. One of the most dangerous circumstances in the well-being of a member of our military who is soon to become a veteran, occurs at that point in transition. It is a time in which there is a sense of loss of belonging, of camaraderie, of mission, of purpose. It is a time in which suicide ideation is more prevalent, and we have a requirement that the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Department of Defense cooperate in a program to properly assist military men and women as they depart active duty.

(30:19)
I want to hear how much you value this process and in fact how much you value the requirements because the Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans Affairs have failed to appropriately and adequately implement that caregiving time and to provide the necessary transition support. It is hugely important. It certainly is important to the life of that service member. It's also important to our recruitment and retention of future members of the military. Comments.

Congressman Doug Collins (30:54):

Ms. Chairman, you've hit it perfectly. I mean, this is not just a taking care of our military, our veteran coming out from DOD and then transitioning to a VA care as they choose, but it's also, if you go back even further, to me, this is a recruiting issue. This is part of the whole life cycle of a veteran. And if you have good experiences in the DOD, they have bad experiences for some reason, if they had a VA or vice versa, you're having people who serve then telling their children and others, I don't want you to serve. This to me is an all-encompassing issue that we've got to work on. And as someone, especially as you talked about earlier, transitioning becomes that time in which for some they don't have that grounding anymore. They need that connection, and we've not done a good job of connecting the dots.

(31:38)
One of the things that should disturb all of us in this room today is the 17 number that is often used to 17 veterans who commits, who die by suicide. And when we understand that, here's what we have found, that over 40% of them had never connected with the VA. So Mr. Chairman, you have my complete assurance is that not only are we going to be a priority, it is going to be an extra priority for me because I believe we can use all assets, not just DOD and VA, but state veterans associations as well. I'm willing to look at any way we can make the connection to make those transitions as easy as possible.

Chairman Moran (32:11):

Mr. Collins, thank you. I now recognize Senator Blumenthal.

Senator Blumenthal (32:14):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that you are exceedingly generous in allotting time for us to ask questions, but I'm going to try to stay within the five minute.

Chairman Moran (32:24):

Were you suggesting that I did not?

Senator Blumenthal (32:29):

I would never suggest anything of the sort. I hope we'll have a second round of questions, though.

Chairman Moran (32:38):

I anticipate that.

Senator Blumenthal (32:39):

Thank you. Let me start with some easy questions. Congressman Collins, will you commit to respond promptly to any inquiry from members of this committee to request information and be fully transparent with this committee?

Congressman Doug Collins (32:56):

That is my intention. I will do for this committee make sure you

Senator Blumenthal (32:59):

Thank you.

Congressman Doug Collins (33:00):

… have every information that you need, Chair. Mr. Ranking Member.

Senator Blumenthal (33:02):

Thank you. And will you commit to working with the Veterans Service Organizations and other stakeholders in making decisions at the VA?

Congressman Doug Collins (33:10):

I look forward to working with this committee and the members of both the House and Senate and any other organizations out there willing to help us help our veterans.

Senator Blumenthal (33:16):

And including the Office of Inspector General, the Government Accountability Office, and the Office of Special Counsel.

Congressman Doug Collins (33:23):

I think you've laid out the very essence of accountability, not only from this body but others, that actually give us insight into what we're doing and how we're doing it. So yes, I look forward to those and making sure that we look at those recommendations. We'll work on them where we can.

Senator Blumenthal (33:36):

Thank you. Last week at a hearing of the Homeland Security Committee, I gave Russell Vought, the nominee for OMB director, the opportunity to renounce a proposal that he made, and it's included in Project 2025, to impose a means test for VA disability compensation benefits. I also asked him about his proposal to claw back benefits from service disabled veterans. He has advocated that anybody with less than a 30% disability receive no benefits. He refused to renounce either proposal. I need from you a commitment that you will oppose any such efforts by the administration.

Congressman Doug Collins (34:27):

Well, Senator Blumenthal, I've made a habit up here of being here. I'll never answer for someone else and the question was asked of him. I will say this. I'm going to… I've not been a part of Project 25, haven't even read it. My issue is I'm going to take care of the veterans. That means that we're not going to balance budgets on the back of veterans' benefits. We're not going to do that, we're going to put the veteran first. And for me, that decision comes to the secretary. That's in our budgetary oversight. That's what I'll be coming to you for. As we talked about in your office, if there are issues that I need, I'm going to come with you with the issue of the solving. If there's issues that I say that you want to see but the law doesn't allow it, then I'm going to say, "Here's where we changed the law," because that's what we've done before. So my commitment is to the veteran and making sure that we have our budget, and sufficiently fund it, so that our veterans receive their benefits.

Senator Blumenthal (35:07):

I'm going to interpret that as a yes.

Congressman Doug Collins (35:10):

Mr. Senator, Ranking Member, you can interpret it.

Senator Blumenthal (35:12):

In his first term, President Trump attempted to go down this road by trying to eliminate individual unemployability benefits for retirement age veterans. In my view, a very ill-conceived proposal that was later retracted, and I hope that you will oppose any such proposal during this administration.

Congressman Doug Collins (35:33):

Mr. Ranking Member, I'm not familiar with that discussion. What I am familiar with is what President Trump did advocate during the first his four years, and that was the Mission Act, the Accountability Act, the things that put veterans first. In fact, his words were, "I want to take care of the veterans." So as we look forward to this, I look forward to carrying out his vision of taking care of our veterans. Putting them first, making sure the VA is in a situation where it is actually doing that, and having the resources it needs, but also having the efficiencies it need to make it better. So I look back to what he's already done and I know that was putting the veteran first, and I will be doing the same.

Senator Blumenthal (36:05):

Thank you. As you know, for far too long, across administrations of both parties, frankly, the VA major and minor construction projects for hospitals, nursing homes, and other critical infrastructure priorities, these are the nuts and bolts, the facilities depended upon by our veterans for care, have been dramatically underfunded. For years, I had to fight for funding and modernize the VA facility in West Haven. Finally, it's underway. There are thousands of other projects, I would bet, in every one of my colleagues' districts that need that kind of funding. It's a bipartisan issue that's good for veterans and good for local economies in red states and blue states, and the longer we wait, the more expensive construction becomes. If confirmed, will you commit to me that you will work with us to make those kinds of investments a priority?

Congressman Doug Collins (37:08):

Mr. Ranking Member, I think what you've just hit is bigger than buildings. It's about the future of the VA. It's about how we actually take care of our veterans. So when you frame the question as funding these projects, I look at it as, am I funding a project that helps a veteran? And that's going to be in every district, as you just said. So yes, I'm looking forward to using the limited dollars that are going to be coming from the Congress and how we spend those to make sure that we're prioritizing those needs in areas such as you mentioned, you're talking about your home state as well.

(37:34)
But these are areas that I'm wanting to look for to make sure that our construction products not only are done efficiently and on time, and also have the proper oversight that we don't see them drag on for years. I've heard too many times in many of your offices, and I met with almost 60-plus senators on both parties, this has been an issue that comes up consistently, that we have to be better stewards of our building projects so that at the end of the day, it's the veteran who gets served.

Senator Blumenthal (37:58):

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Moran (38:01):

I almost gaveled you at the time 43 seconds ago, just to make sure that you know the order of things.

Senator Blumenthal (38:07):

I knew that was coming.

Chairman Moran (38:09):

Yes, sir. Senator Sheehy is going to be recognized next. One of our colleagues was kind enough to allow him to go instead because he presides at the Senate at 11:00 o'clock. Senator Sheehy, welcome to this committee. We thank you for your service to the country. And you're recognized.

Senator Sheehy (38:24):

Thank you, Chairman. Congressman, thank you for being here, thanks for bringing your family. It's great to see them all here. As we know, the military is a family business. When we leave for months or years on end, it's them that carries the weight. I come from a very large state, not a whole lot of people, and a lot of our veterans have to travel many, many hours to get to VA care. And to that end, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how we are going to actually expand access to community care.

(38:50)
Because as Senator Blumenthal and others discussed, it's been press released, it's been talked about, but I think we know from experience, it's actually been very, very hard for our veterans to effectively mesh their veterans healthcare benefits with being able to seamlessly go to the community and get their care. If you're from Plentywood, Montana, it can be a five and a half hour drive to a VA care facility. So I want to make sure that we actually take action to ensure that veterans can go into the community and get care they need so they don't have to drive many, many hours away.

Congressman Doug Collins (39:23):

Senator, I thank you, and welcome to the Senate. It's good to see you this morning. I may be from North Georgia, but issues of ruralness is not new to my district. I have the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. In fact, I start, and Senator King's it ends, the Appalachian Trail. So I get the fact that sometimes the distance may be deceiving, even if it's shorter distance, how to get there. And that could be a problem for veterans, especially older veterans. I remember a time in which I had a 90-year-old veteran trying to… They were asking him to drive 90 miles to get corrective lenses and he was having trouble seeing. Not the best position we need to be in.

(39:58)
Their intent, and I was here for the Mission Act, and in fact, I'm going to go a step beyond, Senator Johnny Isakson was a dear friend of mine, and we got first involved in this, he was a mentor of the Choice Act, which became the Mission Act as we're moving forward, because we saw these very issues that you'd speak of. For me, it's about making sure that we publicize what is out there. I know that's been a concern for many on both sides of the aisle, is making sure veterans understand the benefits that they have. You and I both know in rural areas, sometimes it's hard to get there.

(40:24)
I'm committed to making sure we're using every avenue we can to make sure the benefits that they know about. If they want to use them, great, they'll be there for them, but some do not know. So for you and other states, and rural states, and even urban settings, we've got to make sure that the access is there. In saying that, it also needs to make sure that the VA itself is not standing in the way. That where there is conditions met, where the precondition's met and they are eligible for community care, it's not the VA that's standing in the way to getting them that healthcare they need. And that could come through call centers, doctor visits, pre-clearance, and everything else. So we're going to be working with that.

Senator Sheehy (41:02):

Great. And then as a wounded vet who transitioned out, my wife was also active duty, we served together at the same time, the hardest part about VA care, I found, and most of my peers from the GWOT generation I think agree, is the handoff from active duty healthcare. The handoff to the VA, unfortunately…. I was fortunate enough I had a fantastic handoff, Disabled American Veterans helped with my transition, but very, very few veterans end up in that spot. How can you, as the VA's secretary, ensure that we have a smoother and seamless handoff from active duty members, so when they enter the VA, medical records are ported over, care is ported over, and it happens seamlessly for the veteran?

Congressman Doug Collins (41:43):

Senator, as we just discussed… I was previously discussing this in that transition with the chairman and all, it's the most important for the family itself. I think you understand that with your transition, your wife's transition. Because at that point there's that unsettledness. Where do we go? How do we get care if we need care, especially if there's a pre-existing or something that's been treated in DOD? How do we get by? There are several things that we need to make sure that our touches are much better. There's been some programs to make sure that we touch, the VA touches on occasions, making sure they get the transition care. If that's not happening, we need to do it better. But there is an issue that we've not discussed yet. I'm sure it's going to come up many more times, and that's the medical health records issue of the VA.

(42:24)
That is a program now that has went too many years and cost too many billions of dollars without finding a solution. And my commitment is one of the very first priorities of this if confirmed, is to get in and figure out why and put this on a bigger timeframe to get this medical health records issue solved. I'll say this now and I'll probably say it again. The VA is special but it's not unique. And hear me when I say that. It's special in who we keep and who we trust and who we take care of and that is our veteran, but it's not unique in the sense that we do healthcare. Healthcare is done in this country every day outside the VA, as well as the largest system, which is the VA. We've got to get our health records straight so that we can have an easy handle.

(43:04)
What should be a simple click of the button is many times taken, I've had in my office when I was in Congress, up to almost a year to get those record transferred. That leaves uncertainty for the veteran, that leaves uncertainty for the family, and makes a very unhealthy experience for those that are serving.

Senator Sheehy (43:19):

Well, thank you, Congressman. Thanks for your service to the country and the war, thanks for your family's service and thanks for stepping up to serve again.

Chairman Moran (43:26):

Senator Murray.

Senator Murray (43:26):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Congressman, very good to see you here. Thank you for meeting with me in my office. I appreciated that discussion. And I'm going to start with a question in reference to what you just talked. About because back in 2018, under President Trump's first administration, the VA and Cerner, which is now Oracle Cerner, signed a no bid contract to roll out the Cerner Electronic Health Record to all VA facilities, and the first site went live in my home state in 2020 and it was disastrous. VA and Oracle endangered patients by rushing the deployment, not making sure the system was technically sound, not working with the clinicians on the ground, and not providing sufficient training, and veterans and providers in my home state are still paying the price for that.

(44:17)
Last month, VA announced that it would be moving forward with pre-deployment activities at the next four sites for the Electronic Health Record. You said, and you referenced it here, that you plan to make EHRA priority. I want to know what specifically that means. Are you going to prioritize it by rushing the implementation, or are you going to prioritize it by getting this system right and focusing on veteran safety and clinical productivity as you move forward?

Congressman Doug Collins (44:47):

Thank you, Senator, and I did enjoy our time together in your office. There's the old saying that there's never a more perilous issue than to be on the tip of a new idea, and I think it goes back a long ways, and that's very true of what happens here. When I say that we're going to make this a priority, it means that we're going to see… For me, it's going to be taking it as a full, "All right, I'm taking the first step and I'm going to look at it from fresh eyes." I've not been there for what, even this committee would have to say, has been too long and cost too much money. We're going to talk about the vendor from Oracle. We're going to make sure that we're finding out what their issue is. We're going to listen to our clinicians, we're going to listen to our hospitals.

(45:24)
And as I said just a few minutes ago, we're special in who we care for, but we're not unique. There's no reason in the world we cannot get this done. And I think that's the concern that I have. Because this body, and you in particular, have done such a great job with the appropriations process, of making sure that we're funding a system, that we're now sitting here six to eight years away and nothing's happened. And that causes, just as the senator was talking about, not only the transition but it affects the patients internally. We've got to get better health records so that we can not only have the issue with our one-on-one doctor interaction, we can move faster, they can see the information ahead, and it's safer for the patient.

(46:01)
So for me, as soon as possible, in the very early stages if confirmed, I'm going to gather together members of my staff that will be specifically tasked to, as soon as possible, within the first days of this administration, to see what is the issue, why is it waiting, and why did the previous administration who just left say that they may try to start it back in '26? I'm not sure why year would take here. I believe that we can do it and do it properly, not rushed. There's enough information there that I believe we can actually get it done quicker, but it's going to take looking at.

Senator Murray (46:34):

So the first step would be to bring Oracle Cerner in along with your staff. Please make sure that you talk with those people on the ground that have been dealing with this to understand what has gone wrong, why it's been such a problem, as you take on those next steps. And I would also ask that you please stay in touch with me. This has been, as this committee knows, my top priority and I have just been so frustrated with it. So I want to stay in touch with you.

Congressman Doug Collins (47:00):

Senator, you would be amazed at how many conversations I've had, and we've had as well with this. We can't overemphasize enough of why it needs to be it done. But being on the Hill in positions like your, it's also an understanding that this has become too normal for projects that come out of the Hill. Too normal that we appropriate billions of dollars and yet see no results in six to eight years. I think President Trump and the administration when he started this had the right idea, and we're going to continue that. So we're going to have to work together.

(47:27)
At this point, the finger pointing is done. It's time to get it done for one reason and one reason only. As I said earlier, the mission is the vet. It's the veteran who has earned the benefit, and if we're not giving the right tools for that, then the doctor, the clinician, the nurses are not able to mesh. And I will not accept, "We can't do it." I will not accept, "I don't know." I will not accept, "We don't have enough money. We don't have…" You've had eight years and billions of dollars. So I'm with you on this. We will definitely work together.

Senator Murray (47:58):

Okay, thank you. And quickly in my last 30 seconds, I'll reference something that Senator Blumenthal mentioned in his opening remarks, and that is I care deeply about our women veterans and that they have the services they need. So I want to just ask you, do you believe a veteran who lives in Texas who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be able to get abortion care at her local VA?

Congressman Doug Collins (48:18):

Senator, that is an issue that is very sensitive in this body. It is something that has been looked at. Here is what the law actually says. In the original law from 1992 it says the VA does not do abortions. Two years ago, that was a decision that was looked at and decided. I will tell you this, we will be looking at that issue when I get in there to confirm that the VA is actually following the law.

Senator Murray (48:39):

So do you plan to modify that law then?

Congressman Doug Collins (48:42):

I will repeat just what I just said. When we get in, we're going to look and make sure that the law is being followed from the 1992 law where it said they couldn't and the revision that just happened.

Senator Murray (48:50):

Okay. Well, I want you to know that I'll be following this very closely. I want to make sure that women veterans get the healthcare they need.

Congressman Doug Collins (48:56):

Thank you, Senator.

Senator Murray (49:00):

Thank you.

Chairman Moran (49:00):

Senator Sullivan is recognized.

Senator Sullivan (49:00):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations to you and the ranking member on your new positions. I'm looking forward to working with you. And Congressman Collins, congratulations to you. Thank you to your wonderful, beautiful family there behind you. It's great that you're doing this. I certainly agree with my good friend Kevin Cramer in his open remarks. I think you are eminently qualified, eminently qualified, as a veteran yourself. And as a chaplain, I agree with Senator Cramer, that brings some real unique insights, I think, that's going to be great and I look forward to strongly supporting your confirmation. I'm a big fan and I certainly hope that we have bipartisan support for your confirmation given your qualifications. So thanks for your willingness to serve.

(49:48)
I appreciated our meeting. As you know, I focused a lot on Alaska for really important reasons. My state has more veterans per capita than any state in the country. So a real patriotic place way up north. And we're big. Talking about big states, I won't even get into the size of Alaska because I don't want to embarrass anybody, but it's really, really, really, really big. Tim Sheehy left, I think we're five or six times bigger than Montana, and we don't have one full service veteran hospital, not one. It's us and New Hampshire. That's it. So we have really big challenges for all those reasons. Good, because we have so many veterans. Challenging, because we're big and we don't even have one full-service hospital.

(50:32)
So we've had many disasters in my view with the VA. You and I talked about some of them. In 2015, right when I came to the Senate, the VA system in Alaska collapsed. That was the first big thing I dealt with as a brand new senator. It collapsed because they realigned these VISNs. They took the VISN in Alaska and the call center in Alaska out of Alaska, and we had people making appointments for Alaska veterans based in the lower 48 who didn't have a clue about our state. The system collapsed. We had a giant backlog. And last year, believe it or not, the backlog was up to 12,000 veterans, which is a lot for my state, because we still have call centers based in the lower 48.

(51:21)
So a veteran in let's say Ketchikan, Alaska says, "Hey, I need to get to the Anchorage hospital." The call center will say, "Okay, drive to…" Well, wait, it's an island. They don't even know Ketchikan's an island. So I need to get a commitment from you. In the Mission Act, I was able to get legislation that said, if you don't have a full-service hospital, and by the way, this is again only us and New Hampshire, then you can go immediately to community care. Why wouldn't you? The call centers don't allow that because they don't know about Alaska, they don't know the bill, they don't know the law. So it's still kind of a disaster for my veterans.

(51:58)
So can I get your commitment to work with me on all the Alaska challenges, but this call center issue and bringing… We need a call center back in my state for people who understand what the state's all about, and to help bring down this very big backlog. So can I get your commitment on that, Congressman, to help our veterans? And of course, to get your commitment to come up to Alaska, you can bring the whole family. Come in the summer if you want, we can go fishing after. Or come in the winter and maybe like to be in a state that's dark and 50 below zero. So either way, your choice. Your choice.

Congressman Doug Collins (52:35):

Senator, you make-

Senator Sullivan (52:37):

Lots of people pick August as opposed to February.

Congressman Doug Collins (52:38):

I appreciate that. You make it so much sound attractive there in the last part. As an Air Force chaplain, I actually puts our chaplains up in your beautiful state. That is one of our issues, though, is that long winter. Look, you brought out a point when you were talking about this in the uniqueness of Alaska and New Hampshire in not having the hospital, full service hospital, so they do go to… It is very much of a user of community care. It is really disturbing to me, as we talked about, that you had about 5,000, I believe it was last time we had talked, of veterans waiting for health benefits. This is not a benefit backlog, this is a healthcare backlog. That means there's 5,000 souls that are there not getting the healthcare they need.

Senator Sullivan (53:19):

By the way, last summer it was up to 12,000. I think the outgoing secretary was trying. But 12,000 just waiting to get an appointment. Because we've got someone in the lower 48 who's never been to Alaska trying to make an appointment for an Alaska veteran.

Congressman Doug Collins (53:32):

It's definitely-

Senator Sullivan (53:33):

It's a disaster.

Congressman Doug Collins (53:34):

Yeah, no, I agree. It's something… When you told me that, it surprised me and it's something we got to look at. Sometimes things get lost in bureaucracy and you think it looks good, but then after their actual real world application, you have to go back and make changes. I'm willing to commit to you to look at that and see if we can make it better so that they understand that Ketchikan's an island and that they can't drive to Anchorage.

Senator Sullivan (53:51):

Yeah. Let me ask one final question very quickly. We talked about it. Our Alaska Native community is also incredibly patriotic. Alaska Natives serve at higher rates in the military than any other ethnic group in the country. So super patriotic. Live in a lot of our rural communities, and our Alaska Native healthcare organizations have reach into the rural parts of the state that no other place does. The VA has a long history of working with our Alaska Native health organizations to extend the reach of care into very rural parts of America, very rural parts of Alaska, and partner to get Alaska Native veterans, but also non-Natives who live in these rural communities, to go to an Alaska Native health organization to get care because they've partnered with the VA. Can I get your commitment to continue that good relationship? Sometimes it's a little contentious on negotiating the agreements, but they're really worth it to expand and extend VA healthcare for Native Alaskans, non-Native Alaskans in the most rural parts of our state.

Congressman Doug Collins (55:00):

Senator, yes. We're willing to commit to do that also in any other district across this country where we can partner to make sure our veterans are getting healthcare that they need, and especially in a unique situation like that, of course.

Senator Sullivan (55:11):

Great. Thank you. Thank you, Congressman. I look forward to supporting you and I'll have more questions for the record. Thank you very much.

Chairman Moran (55:17):

Senator Hirono.

Senator Hirono (55:21):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's nice to see you. Congratulations on your nomination. As part of my responsibilities to ensure the fitness of any nominee who comes before any of my committees, I ask the following two initial questions. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature?

Congressman Doug Collins (55:48):

No, I have not.

Senator Hirono (55:49):

Have you ever faced discipline or entered into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?

Congressman Doug Collins (55:53):

No, I have not.

Senator Hirono (55:55):

I would just like to note that Hawaii also does not have a full-service VA hospital and, like Alaska, has access issues with seven inhabited islands and veterans living on all of them. So those are all issues that we're going to need to continue to address. Congressman, you are very close to President Trump, both as a member of the House and since that time. Under what circumstances would you say no to a request or order from President Trump?

Congressman Doug Collins (56:28):

Senator, we're dealing in hypotheticals of saying this president would actually ask me to do something illegal. I'm not going to a hypothetical because this president has put veterans first. He's not going to ask me to do anything illegal or outside the current of the law. And I think the question implies something that's not happened and I don't need to worry about a hypothetical.

Senator Hirono (56:46):

I think we… Excuse me. I think we need to make sure what your priorities are and you're saying that you will not say yes to an illegal… What you consider an illegal order.

Congressman Doug Collins (56:55):

Senator-

Senator Hirono (56:57):

Next question. During your time in public life, you have been very outspoken against pregnant people's right to their own reproductive choices. In the role of secretary, you would be overseeing care for veterans and their loved ones across the entire ideological spectrum. Would you rescind the interim final rule enacted under the Biden administration that allows VA to provide abortion counseling and abortions in the case of rape, incest, or where the life or health of the veteran would be endangered?

Congressman Doug Collins (57:38):

Thank you, Senator. As we just discussed this just a moment ago, the VA Act in 1992 specifically forbid the VA from doing abortions.

Senator Hirono (57:47):

Well, you do-

Congressman Doug Collins (57:47):

I plan on-

Senator Hirono (57:47):

Excuse me.

Congressman Doug Collins (57:47):

Senator-

Senator Hirono (57:48):

Let me just clarify something for you.

Congressman Doug Collins (57:49):

Senator. I'll be happy to answer your question-

Senator Hirono (57:51):

You refer to a law that actually is being pretty much clarified by this interim final rule, and there is, as you know, debate regarding what the law allows. I believe the law allows this rule to be enacted. And my question to you is whether you would rescind this interim rule that would allow the providing of abortions…

Congressman Doug Collins (58:12):

And Senator, as I was-

Senator Hirono (58:12):

… to veterans who… Under the circumstances of rape, incest, or where her life is endangered. Would you rescind the rule?

Congressman Doug Collins (58:21):

Senator, as I was answering your question, we will look at this rule and see if it complies with the law. As you just said in your own answer, it is a debatable issue. We're going to look at it and make sure that the VA is following the law.

Senator Hirono (58:33):

Well, of course, if you provide these kinds of services, you are providing all the veterans the full range of care for reproductive services as needed regardless of your ideological position.

Congressman Doug Collins (58:47):

Senator, my ideological position is based in the law, and I will follow the law in this regard. And if your question, as I would of love to have sat down and talked with you before this hearing, and we could have explained this because I believe the law is clear.

Senator Hirono (58:57):

I am asking you under oath, do you believe that world-class care, quoting you, includes a full range of reproductive services?

Congressman Doug Collins (59:08):

I believe that the range of care provided at the VA is following the law and the intent of this body as it is set forth in the law.

Senator Hirono (59:15):

And if the way you interpret the law will disallow services to 2 million women veterans in the US, including 13,000 in Hawaii, you would do so?

Congressman Doug Collins (59:26):

As I have-

Senator Hirono (59:26):

That's what you just testified

Congressman Doug Collins (59:28):

As that I have just testified, and in looking at this, I will take a look at where the law stands. And as you also testified in your questioning, you said it is a debatable topic that was just changed two years ago.

Senator Hirono (59:39):

Well, I certainly hope that…

Congressman Doug Collins (59:40):

And we will look at that and I will-

Senator Hirono (59:40):

… you would interpret… There is rule that actually interprets the law in a particular way…

Congressman Doug Collins (59:45):

I understand the rule.

Senator Hirono (59:45):

… and you're saying that it all depends.

Congressman Doug Collins (59:49):

I understand the rule, ma'am.

Senator Hirono (59:49):

VS has over… And you're not responding to whether or not you will rescind that rule, which provides care for thousands of female veterans.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:00:00):

Senator, I am trying [inaudible 01:00:01]-

Senator Hirono (01:00:00):

VA has over 450,000 employees and contracts with hundreds of thousands of private providers across the country. Can you explain what roles you have held that would have prepared you for leading such a large organization?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:00:18):

I'd love to, Senator. I have been a part of this body in which I have actually overseen the… And working through votes and working through bills that actually affect the VA's operation from a day-to-day operation. I understand the policy of the VA intimately by being a member just like you. I've also spent time in the military working with many individuals, and currently serve at the Warner Robins Air Force Base and [inaudible 01:00:38] command of our chaplain's office with over 656 personnel working across different managed comms handling personnel decisions. I've also been a leader in many other ways and I believe that leadership is how you deal with this. You deal with leadership in putting good people in good positions to make sure that…

Senator Hirono (01:00:51):

Thank you.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:00:52):

… you have a workforce that knows that they have it.

Senator Hirono (01:00:53):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Moran (01:00:55):

Thank you. Senator Cramer.

Senator Kramer (01:01:01):

I am just compelled to ask this question because Senator Hirono asked you if you would… I think the implication was, would you carry out an order, an illegal order, by the President of the United States? Which there's no evidence he'd ever do and he's ever done and it's so hypothetical to be silly. But I am compelled to ask, would you consider rescinding an illegal rule by the previous administration? Because it seems to me that an illegal rule, or at least one that's debatable, is worthy of significant legal consideration before you would do it just because you felt like doing it.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:01:47):

Senator Cramer, I appreciate the way that is worded because that is exactly the way I tried to word it to the senator. And that is the law has specifically stated that the VA was not to be doing abortions. There are other areas there that we look at. So we look at a situation that came up in 2022 in which they were told to look at a rule that would get around that. To me, it's time for us to take a look at that rule and make sure, just as in every other area of VA life, that we're actually doing what the law and the intent of this body is.

(01:02:16)
That's not a… When you get into that, for me, this is going forward and looking at all the issues. If it was just a matter of… And I have great respect for this body, I've served in this body, and what we pass actually means something. And the minute it becomes something that doesn't mean something in the administration or outside is the minute the rule of law falls down. So for me, yes, I will be looking into this. Yes, I will be confirming that it's comports with the law as it is.

Senator Kramer (01:02:42):

Thank you. I wanted to give you that opportunity to, uninterrupted, explain yourself and you did it very well. You're hearing a lot about community care, obviously, and I will spare you all of my horror stories. I think Senator Sheehy did a remarkable job, as did Senator Sullivan because those are big rural states. You obviously… Your examples are outstanding. I would just add that it's my intention to work with my colleagues to further clarify in the Mission Act what access to community care is. In other words, we still hear horror stories from veterans who live 300 miles from the VA hospital in Fargo, or maybe 100 miles from the nearest even CBOC, who maybe live across the street from a critical access hospital, which we have 36 spread throughout our wonderful little state. 36 critical access hospitals who operate on the thinnest of margins.

(01:03:45)
And it's tragic for me to think that there's a veteran waiting for paperwork that's being slow-walked by a bureaucrat more interested in the VA than they are the veteran. And all the while, there's a hospital that's barely hanging on across the street. And I'm not even exaggerating a little bit when I say that. And perhaps… I guess my question is, would you work with me and colleagues on this committee to find ways to not just streamline the process, but to guarantee it? In other words, where the default is not have you checked all the boxes on enough pieces of paper to qualify for care somewhere else before you die trying to get far, far away, but rather, you do that first and then the reimbursement comes after that. And so anyway, I'm just asking if you'd help me. If you've got some thoughts and if you'd commit to working with us on something like that.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:04:39):

Senator, you've hit the whole heart of why I want to do this job. I've been asked about doing this job, why do I want to go into the VA? And it's sort of been interesting. I've had some say, "Congratulations." I've had some say, "Oh, what are you doing? It's a large undertaking." And I said, "No, I'm taking this, number one, because I care for people and I care for veterans." It's where I come from. It's what I believe. It's what I saw from up here. It's what you see as you look at to make it better. For me, the service organization called the VA is about service. It's about the veteran. As you just stated, it's not about the VA. The VA is there, and like I said, I'm looking forward to being a secretary who motivates and unleashes the power of this wonderful workforce, which I believe most are a wonderful workforce that we have that want to do a good job.

(01:05:18)
They need the leadership and encouragement to say, "Let's find yeses instead of nos. Let's find answers instead of technicalities. Let's find the hope in people instead of trying to find the reason to hold or delay." To me, this is about the veteran. This is about getting them the access to care that you and I and many on this committee voted for. That's why we do what we do, is because they deserve it. So for me, if… And Senator Duckworth, and this crosses party lines, and I appreciate the ranking member talking about bipartisanship. We had a great conversation in her office discussing how we could co-locate CBOCs with rural hospitals, if that's a possibility, could it be looked at? I committed to the senator from Illinois that that's something I would look at because it helps both

Congressman Doug Collins (01:06:00):

… both sides. And so we've got to get back to the part where it's about the veteran itself, and I'm going to want to empower a workforce that wants to get up every day and come to you and say, "I'm getting to yes, I'm getting to this veteran so they get the help they need."

Senator Kevin Cramer (01:06:13):

You sir, are a leader with a servant's heart. Thank you, are you.

Senator Jerry Moran (01:06:17):

Sir Cramer, thank you. Senator King.

Senator Angus King (01:06:20):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on your assumption of the chairmanship of the committee and the ranking member. I want to just emphasize a couple of points you've already discussed. One is transition with the chairman. Critically important, and there are a number of bills out there, the TAP Promotion Act, Welcome Home Veterans Act, Combat Veterans Pre-Enrollment Act. I suspect you're familiar with them, but I just want to hear you reiterate your commitment to this transition and working with the Department of Defense, because it's a partnership that has to happen to make that warm handoff. Is that going to be a priority for you?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:06:57):

Yes, Senator. You couldn't have… There are so many priorities in the life that you look at, you want to get started. But this one that you hit about making this transition is so important to me because it transcends just getting them into the service. It transcends that benefit that they've earned. It goes to the very heart of making sure that they're taking care of and feeling wanted.

(01:07:15)
As we started a little while back, I believe it starts at a recruitment issue, all the way through retirement issue. Because if they feel like they're taken care of in DOD, then they're going to have a better opportunity if VA reaches out with a hand to say, here's the benefits you want to participate in, that they have a place there and they have a facility for them. The concern I have, Senator, is making sure that in DOD, and I've already had some look at this, is how we can do some cooperative work with the DOD and the VA, also bringing into account the state veterans associations as well.

Senator Angus King (01:07:47):

I-

Congressman Doug Collins (01:07:47):

Understand.

Senator Angus King (01:07:48):

… I want to emphasize that last point. I had a proposal in the National Defense Authorization Act, gotten in the Senate, got knocked out in the House, to communicate a veteran's termination transition status to the state veterans facility so this person can be greeted at the airport, for example. That's the kind of handoff that I think we want. Do you agree?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:08:09):

I agree. Look, because it's exactly what you said, it's how you're perceived. I view the service part of the VA is its most important part. There are some times that you have to tell somebody no. There's sometimes you have to tell them we can't do something in a benefit or something else, but there's always time to make that veteran feel like they are cared for. And I think the transition time, which you're talking about right now, that sort of, as you said, that warm hug is the thing that we need to actually look at.

Senator Angus King (01:08:36):

And it's a critical moment, as you pointed out. It's a time of heightened risk of suicide, for example.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:08:41):

Yeah.

Senator Angus King (01:08:41):

Let me move on. Electronic health records, you had some discussions. I think this points out one of the fundamental flaws in the federal government procurement process, particularly in national security areas where we feel we've got to buy our own custom, brand new, shiny product, rather than something that's sitting on the shelf. There's an electronic health records system called EPIC that thousands of hospitals use all across the country. Instead, we're trying to invent our own system, which frankly hasn't worked, and as you pointed out, has cost billions of dollars. I hope that you'll look at the option of saying, "Hey, let's go with something that works, that we know it works, and can be modified to meet our needs, rather than continuing down the roll of billions of dollars of a system that has so far not proven itself."

Congressman Doug Collins (01:09:31):

And Senator you, I think what you've just hit is not going to… What I'm committed to is making sure what we have, and looking at all options on the table. I want to bring in, because Cerner and others, Oracle has had places where they already have facilities already running the program. It's the issue that I went back to earlier and I think you heard, it was here. The VA is special, but not unique. We've got to get out of this uniqueness status, and how is it different than the largest healthcare organization like this, that there are not better ways that we can do it? And it's not just in medical health records, we've got to look for better ways all across.

Senator Angus King (01:10:03):

That's exactly my point. A lot of discussion this morning about the Mission Act and community care. I'm all for it under the appropriate circumstances, but not at the expense of a creeping elimination of the Veteran's healthcare system. I believe I heard you say earlier, you remain committed to VA healthcare in addition to community care where appropriate. Is that correct?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:10:27):

Senator, you've heard correctly because I believe that when… There'll always be a VA healthcare for the veteran who comes out. I believe what we have to do is make sure that we are adapting and making sure that we are giving the care as authorized by this body to make sure that we do it in the ways that are appropriate to the veteran. It's no longer time in a situation in different, especially in different parts of the country, where we have to have the veterans to do the mission, and what the intent was when we passed it.

Senator Angus King (01:10:50):

You've mentioned that you had not read Project 2025. Are you familiar with it? There are some suggestions in it that frankly I find pretty frightening.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:10:56):

I'm not, except for what I've heard when Senators mentioned or somebody says it on TV.

Senator Angus King (01:11:01):

Well, for example, there's a provision that new managerial approaches should be currently used in the private sector to be employed to improve the existing VBA activities. I'm afraid that might be code for sharks, for claim sharks. Are you supportive of the Guard VA Act? Are you familiar with that bill?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:11:21):

I'm vaguely familiar with it, yes, I have touched of that.

Senator Angus King (01:11:23):

Well, I hope you're familiarize yourself with it. I think it's a very important bipartisan bill to protect veterans from what are colloquially referred to as claim sharks. I'll have some other additional questions later in the hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Jerry Moran (01:11:39):

You're welcome, Senator King. Senator Banks, welcome to the committee, and you're recognized for questioning.

Senator Jim Banks (01:11:44):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Collins, great to see you. We served together in the House, and those four years of President Trump's first term were four great years for America's veterans. President Trump was the veteran's president. We did great things from expanding the Mission Act, to greater accountability for VA employees. We loosened standards for the GI bill. President Trump sent us down a path to modernize electronic health records. The list goes on and on from the VA crisis hotline, to other issues that were priorities for him that you and I had a chance to work on in the House is among the greatest accomplishments since, in the eight years that I've served in Congress.

(01:12:25)
Now we have another four years. And you're going to be a great secretary, working with a great president. I can't wait to work with you to do even greater things for America's heroes. I do have some concerns about the condition of our medical facilities, and you and I talked about this in my office. The Indianapolis Medical Center is due for a total replacement. It's in the VA's five-year development plan meeting. It's a project that you have on the books, but you don't have funding to do it. Will you commit today to working with me to get that project started next year as the VA plans call for?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:13:13):

Thank you Senator, and is working with this body to get the funding needs for all of our construction and priority needs are going to be there. One of the issues that we have, and if you allow to spin off of that because you haven't experienced it of it, is our average age of many of our facilities, especially our hospitals, is 60+ years old.

(01:13:31)
This is beyond when you look at the hospital side now in private hospitals or in the public hospitals, are average 15 to 20 years. It's just a whole difference, which throws into so many different problems. So construction is going to be something, and the projects like that are going to be important, but also as we just discussed and Senator King brought up, the electronic healthcare record system, some of our existing facilities that we're not only going to redo, are going to have to have major work just to hold the computer systems and others to make that happen. So it's something we're going to work toward to make sure that we get it funded. We look forward to working with this body to get the money for that, and would support working through that.

Senator Jim Banks (01:14:08):

Thank you for that. I look forward to working with you on that. The VA, as you know, has struggled with construction maintenance and leasing for years, and Indianapolis and a lot of other projects around the country are facing significant delays, which is harming our veterans. How are you going to prioritize reforming the offices they handle these functions within the VA?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:14:28):

Senator, I think what we've looking at here and really where you got to go is making sure that we have a, what I'm hoping to find is a more, I won't say slim down, but a very focused vision on our acquisitions, our construction projects so that we're not going through multiple layers, as you well know, add time if this person has to sign off, but making it applicable.

(01:14:48)
This body's already said that project's over $100 million have to go with the Corps of Engineers. We have those other issues now after the project in Aurora and then Colorado, which went so far, which we were here for. That's why we've got to make sure that we have the right people in those positions and bring in help when we need to say, "Okay, how can this project be built more cost-effectively?"

(01:15:06)
And if I could say one thing. One of the reasons, yes, I looked at this job and looked at the masses of it but wanted to do it, was those four years that you just mentioned. Because I knew a president in Donald Trump who actually wanted to take care of veterans, and didn't say it, but actually showed it in what we did, and we worked on here in the hill.

Senator Jim Banks (01:15:21):

I would add to that the last four years have been very different, hasn't been a priority of the administration that you're following, and look forward to changing that very quickly. When I served on the House Veteran Affairs Committee, there was a lot of confusion about where the VA was going to put new clinics and why those counties, or towns, or cities were chosen, and it made it really hard for me as a congressman to explain to my constituents why this town was chosen for this clinic, and another location wasn't. Do you think the VA should let Congress know in advance where planned clinics are going, not just send us a letter when a lease gets awarded?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:15:58):

I believe that we should have a much better working relationship with Congress in regards to all aspects of this. And I think that includes CBOX, and we just discussed earlier conversation I'd had with Senator Duckworth about how we locate those, maybe even with others. But if you would allow me just a moment, there's one area that I want to this whole body to hear, and it's one of the main emphasis that I'm going to have.

(01:16:16)
I believe, and after listening to this over, like I said, 60+ conversations and more, that we have to have a better working relationship with the VA, and the members of this committee, and the body through our legislative affairs. Legislative affairs under my leadership, if confirmed by this body is going to be proactive, not reactive. They'll still be there for this committee and the House committee to answer policy questions and to do those things, but I want to have actually legislative affairs people boots on the ground so to speak, here on the hill talking not just to you about your concerns, but hearing from your constituent services workers. 60% of most all of your constituent services work fall under VA, whether it's benefits or healthcare.

(01:16:53)
I want our folks to know that up front so that your people can know who to talk to, but then they will relay the reports to me so that if in Indiana we have a problem that is coming from your office and a couple of the Congressmen's office, we're going to have a chance to react to that much quicker, and so that I'll have the information so that we're not seeing something in the paper six months later, or having to you to call.

(01:17:14)
I've made the promise to everyone here that I do not come in this with rose-colored glasses. I think this is a large undertaking that I feel called to be at. But I will say this. For all of you who have it, and I've heard it as well in my eight years as Congress, when a member of the military, the veteran has to call our office, a congressman or a senator's office to get the care they've already earned, it is a mark of failure in our department. It's not something we can't overcome, and there's plenty of things to do it, but I believe until we get to that mark, the VA does itself, then we're not taking care of our veterans as fully as we can, and I'm going to encourage all of our employees to get to that standard. Thank you.

Senator Jerry Moran (01:17:56):

I better check and make sure I've got it right. Senator Banks, thank you for your question. Senator Slotkin.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:18:01):

Thank you Mr. Chairman, and I'm really pleased to be on this committee. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Mr. Gallego, missed it by an inch. And I think that veterans issues should be bipartisan issues. You and I served together in the House, we overlapped. I'm very proud to be the first CIA officer in the US Senate. I'm a 9/11 baby as they say, and was recruited by the CIA after 9/11, and did three tours in Iraq, armed alongside the military, and worked proudly for both Democrat and Republican administrations. I'm also a Democrat that just got elected on the same ballot as Donald Trump, as we talked about. So I certainly understand that Mr. Trump has the right to nominate his own people and have policies that differ than my own beliefs. I think what I care about the most is just making sure that our veterans get the care that they need, and we don't strip essential programs for the sake of cutting the workforce.

(01:19:04)
We talked about the PACT Act when you were in my office, I worked very hard on that bill on the House Veterans Affairs Committee, the potential to expand care to 3,000,00 9/11-era veterans who lived near burn pits. And then the Elizabeth Dole Act that a number of folks in this committee worked on as well, which really does amazing things for mental health, and expanding programs on long-term care.

(01:19:33)
So can you just give me assurances that while I know it's a mandate from President Trump to cut the size of the government, that you will always speak up on behalf of veterans, not just do the bidding of someone who maybe somewhere else sees your numbers and starts to slash and burn? Because in places like Michigan, we have really expanded our staff on the VA to handle the additional veterans coming in. If we just start slashing numbers, we're going to be hurting the veterans who we just all voted and said we wanted to care for. So just a simple answer there.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:20:07):

Yeah, that's an easy one, because what I was told by the president is to take care of our veterans. We're going to take care of our veterans, and I said earlier in this hearing that we're not going to sacrifice the veterans' benefits to do a budget, and I think these are the consequences we have. Efficiencies can be found everywhere, as you and I talked about in the office.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:20:23):

Yeah.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:20:23):

But we've also got to make sure we're doing our mission. I wouldn't go to a place in which we're not doing the mission. The mission is the veterans.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:20:29):

I just, I know there will come a time, there always is, when we're cutting things, that you will have to push back and say, "This is what that's going to do to care, and I have to"… You're going to pledge an oath to the constitution here soon, not to any one president. On the issue of veterans benefits, do you believe that you have the ability to change someone, you as VA secretary, if confirmed, would have the ability to change the discharge status of any one veteran?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:21:01):

That's not under my purview to change.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:21:03):

Yeah, and do you believe that a veteran's benefits can be cut based on personal or political beliefs?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:21:13):

No, Senator, that is not a criteria for cutting a benefit. A benefit is earned and based on the criteria that is set before, it's not a political belief. There's not a litmus test that we would work there.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:21:23):

I really hope we stand for that, because even when we deeply disagree with the veteran's actions, their service and their discharge status is determined based on their moment that they serve the country, whether we like their views or not. That's why we never had the veteran's benefits, as I understand it, taken away from people like the January 6 protesters, even when they were convicted. Similarly, we're watching right now senior people from the US military and Coast Guard be removed from their jobs on Mr. Trump's first day. I just want your assurances that you are not going to change their veteran benefits that they earned if the discharge status is what it is from the Department of Defense.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:22:09):

I think encouraging and not going down a path that we've talked about are hypotheticals here. I think the DOD is list out… When it comes to the veteran and coming to the VA itself, the veteran comes with the benefits that they've earned through their service, and how they get to us. We'll take care and make sure that the veteran is taken care of with their status when they get here. The issues you're talking about from DOD, we're going to take care of them from the veteran perspective.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (01:22:31):

I just think that we go down a dangerous road as a country if we say that a veteran has served, they get their discharge papers, they've done their service of the country, and then regardless of what political views they have, whatever they say or do after their service, they're then retroactively punished through their pension, through their VA benefits. I think that's a dangerous path for Democrats and Republicans, and I don't want you to be the first VA secretary to go down that, so I'll rely on you to stand in the breach on that one. And with that I yield back my time.

Senator Jerry Moran (01:23:04):

Thank you very much. Senator Boozman.

Senator John Boozman (01:23:08):

Thank you Mr. Chairman, and congratulations on the chairmanship. We look forward to working with you and Senator Blumenthal to provide the leadership, continue to provide great leadership that this committee's had for the last several years.

(01:23:22)
The VA's State Veterans Home Program is a great resource for many senior veterans, including those in Arkansas. Our Rogers location does excellent work caring for senior veterans in Arkansas, but needs upgrades to continue providing the standards of care expected. In fiscal year '24, this 96 bed facility was ranked number 12 on the veteran state home construction grant program priority list, after being ranked number nine in fiscal year '23. Unfortunately facility will not receive the necessary funding in fiscal year '24. We've worked with the current administration to get the necessary upgrades to Rogers facility needs. Do I have your commitment that the VA under your leadership will continue working with us on the issue?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:24:15):

Senator, thank you, and I think this is important. This came up with several of us, and you and I have discussed it. We're going to work with you and the appropriators and also this committee to make sure that the priorities as expressed will be taken care of, and we'll work with you to do those as we go forward. Because at the end of the day, especially what you just brought up is one of the more critical we have, and that's sort of that end-of-life kind of issues that we deal with, and those later stages issues when more care is needed.

(01:24:39)
So for me, making sure that you have, that the states across this country and the VA is providing that care, is something that is frankly a non-negotiable. As a pastor, it's been mentioned many times about me being a chaplain, but I was a pastor for 11 years as well, and had spent many times in those long-term care facilities, and it was humbling, and also though very critical to understanding. So yes, we're going to work to see what we can to make sure that every need is that. We'll not always be able to say, "Here's the best answer you're going to want to hear," but I'll definitely work with you.

Senator John Boozman (01:25:09):

Very good, thank you. I'm very proud of the committee's work to pass the PACT Act, which now provides long overdue care for veterans dealing with the effects of toxic exposure, while the VA's efforts to reach veterans impacted by the legislation and get them support has been great. I remain concerned about the VA's management of the Toxic Exposure Fund, and overall budget outlook. How will you make sure the VA's Toxic Exposure Fund remains viable for years to come while providing the levels of care our veterans have earned?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:25:52):

Thank you, Senator. The care there is the biggest issue, and coming out of the PACT Act in the work we've had, and it's been several hundred thousand new people have brought into the system in that, even more coming. I think the biggest thing we've got to do is actually look at what is passed here and I promise, and I think you and I spoke about this in your office is, are we at the VA making sure that we're getting good information and doing what the intent of the law was so that they can continue to get those benefits? And that comes from the resources that come from us, from this body. So I'm going to be actually looking at it, and I'll come to you with real-world examples.

(01:26:29)
One of the things, as I made the comment earlier about our legislative affairs, and making sure that we're more on the hill so to speak with that, was another commitment that I have, because I sat where you have sat and had questions of administrations in the past, is that you get good information. And you have a commitment from me that when you get information about how we're funding and how we're appropriating that, that whoever sits at this table, myself and any other person that comes from the VA will give you good information. And they'll give you good numbers so that we're not like we were last fall when it starts off at a number of billions, and then goes down to another billions, and then was not even used as Senator Cramer talked about in the opening.

(01:27:06)
So we're going to be doing that in addition to making sure that we're getting good, accurate numbers so that we can inflate the intent of these acts. The Elizabeth Dole Act, it was just mentioned just a few minutes ago, is going to be one that I want to make sure that we do properly. We set it in under the Trump administration when the Blue Water Navy, and others, and Mission Act was actually put into play, there were times set in so that it could be done properly. Sometimes the great ideas at the wrong time are not the best way. You've got to make sure that you have the great idea done properly, and that's what we're going to do.

Senator John Boozman (01:27:38):

Very good. Just say again, you served, you're a great member in the House. You understand how important it is that when we need information, when we need to talk to you or somebody of importance, it's so frustrating. You know, you have a hearing, and you've sent letters, and the last three letters hadn't been answered. Just say again very briefly, because my time is up, but I think it's one of the most important things that we can talk about today is, how important it is to again be such that you are in constant tune with the members.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:28:18):

Senator, thank you for highlighting what I believe is going to be one of the biggest differences, and if confirmed by this body at the VA in the early stages, and that is going to be the involvement of our legislative affairs on this hill.

(01:28:29)
I am committed to having 535, if you would, canaries in a coal mine. 100 senators and 435 representatives who actually can help us, and work together to see where there's problems, to see where there's issues. Like I said, not just in policy, not just in funding, but also in the actual veteran constituency because when I hear from you, and as Chairman Moran and I talked and he mentioned earlier, when we hear from the veterans, that's what we hear in Home Depot. That's what we hear in Kroger. When we're walking around, thanks for helping us. I want to know where the problems are, because I'm not a secretary, if confirmed, that will sit behind a desk. I will be out, and I'll be there making sure we get it fixed.

Senator John Boozman (01:29:04):

Good, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Jerry Moran (01:29:06):

Thank Senator Boozman. Senator Gallego.

Senator Ruben Gallego (01:29:08):

Thank you Chairman. Thank you Congressman Collins for joining us here today, and congratulations on your nomination. And as you and I talked in my office, of course this is very personal to me also being a Marine, Iraq veteran, someone who has used VA healthcare services, and also receives a disability rating from them, making sure the VA continues to be foremost taking care of our veterans is important to me, especially in Arizona. So I have a couple of questions, more Arizona-focused.

(01:29:37)
So the Be Connected program, operated by the Arizona Coalition for Military Families, had began as an Arizona veteran suicide prevention program. Has grown to serve the state's veteran population and their families by connecting them with mental health resources and more, which sometimes cannot be met within the hospital system. It receives one-third of its funding from the state of Arizona, and two-thirds from the VA, and renews his contract with the Phoenix VA annually. The Phoenix VA recently said that it no longer intends to enter into another contract with the Be Connected program, and will stop funding on March 31st due to budget constraints. So if confirmed, will you commit to work with me and the other members of the Arizona delegation to ensure the VA finds alternative sources of funding so Arizona veterans can continue to receive this critical services through the Be Connected program?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:30:25):

Yes, Senator, I mean… One of the things, and it's good to see you, and it's good to see you over here in your seat, as we served together. Look, also touring the same ground in Iraq, we know that that issue coming back in that transition has been mentioned many times here before. It concerns me, and I am going to say what you're bringing up right now, it concerns me that as a VA that there would be concerns about funding a program that actually goes to what is one of my major concerns, and that is the issue of death by suicide and looking at the, or taking even to a homelessness issue as well. So those are the kind of programs I think are priorities.

(01:30:59)
So from my perspective as a secretary, it's going to be about priorities. And priorities are what we're seeing today is 17 people not with us anymore, it's not satisfactory. Over 40,000 I believe of those are more homeless. It's not satisfactory. A 5,000 waiting list in Alaska is not satisfactory. So budget items will match up to the priorities of what I want to have, and that's what I look forward to working with you on, and look forward to getting more information on that issue.

Senator Ruben Gallego (01:31:23):

Thank you. I'm focusing and moving on to kind of the HUD-VASH program, something that's very important in terms of reducing homeless veterans. But we did see a growth in homeless veterans increase by 7.4% from 2022 to 2023, which is for a variety of reasons, not just the HUD-VASH VA program. The program as you'll… Pairs rental assistance through housing vouchers targeted at veterans specifically, with case management and other supportive services. If confirmed, what would you do to support HUD-VASH program, and increase the collaboration between the VA and HUD?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:31:59):

That is something that I think is, you and I talked about in the office, is very important because we look at the areas for disability, we look at the dash, we look at this, is it actually enough to provide people the resources to have a home? For me, I will look at this issue of homelessness not just as a VA issue. I'm going to look across the spectrum with HUD and with any other department which we can, to make sure that this is something that is not the dark spot on a veteran service where we have homelessness like that is spoken of all the time. So I'm willing to take whatever we can in the VA outside the VA, and I'm looking forward to having a good relationship if confirmed here. And if confirmed, Mr. Turner confirmed at HUD, that we're going to have a lot of conversations about this.

Senator Ruben Gallego (01:32:39):

Right, and you and I talked about this in my office too. The studies have shown that the whole health coaching can help veterans make meaningful progress towards health goals, reduce stress, and improve quality of life, and overall bring down the long-term costs for the VA, because then you have healthier veterans at a younger age means you have healthier veterans in older age.

(01:32:56)
The VA currently employs around 200 full-time health coaches, but there are about approximately 20,000 to 30,000 health and wellness coach encounters where they have 20, 30,000 health and wellness encounters per month. This number is expected to increase as veterans demand more coaching when it comes to life and health. As we discussed in our meeting, the VA has serious health coach vacancies. If confirmed, what would you do to safely help remove current barriers to healthcare professionals interested in becoming health coaches with the VA?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:33:29):

Senator, as we discussed, that's one of the issues I see, and I think you and I both saw from the House, and now you're over here in the Senate and myself is, why are regulations keeping us from getting to the help that we need? And I think that's what I want to take a look at. After you and I conversation, we get confirmed, we're going to look at this and say, why is getting from A to D, why is B and C an issue, is a proper, or could we remove C and just go ABD?

(01:33:52)
I think those are the kinds of things, because what you just talked about again is, how do we keep people? At the bottom line for me, this chaplain's heart, this secretary's heart is always going to be about helping the veteran get the help that they need in all areas of their life. And if we don't do that, then we're making a mistake, we're missing the mark. And you and I have seen that unfortunately at first hand. As someone who's actually counseled with those who thought about taking their life, those who are serious issues, we've got to have every help we can have.

Senator Ruben Gallego (01:34:18):

Okay, thank you. Mail back.

Senator Kevin Cramer (01:34:19):

Thank you and welcome to the committee, Senator Tuberville.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:34:22):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Congressman for wanting to take this on, you and your family. Largest healthcare system in the world. That's not eye-opening, I don't know what is. We've had a lot of people tackle this job, and it is a hard job, and it's very, very important. I grew up in a military family, been to many, many VA's, and we have some good ones in Alabama, but it's amazing to me that we look at this and it's, again, second-largest budget that we have here in Congress. Second largest behind the DOD. But it's really not about money. I think about and look at all this in a different perspective sometimes, it's about people running what you have. And we're run by unions, and there's obviously some good and some bad, but we got to find the problem, because we got more and more of our veterans are adding up. We have almost 500,000 just in the state of Alabama alone.

(01:35:22)
And it's a big problem that we can't take care all of them. Now, when I first got here and got on this committee four years ago, one of the first things that we did, President Trump had eliminated 4,000 people. He didn't care what they were in. If they didn't do their job, they got fired. He took 4,000 of them and sent them out the door. Well, the Biden administration come in, the first thing they did is they rehired them, and back pay, and put them in a situation where a lot of them had really breached protocol.

(01:35:59)
Now I come from a previous profession, if you didn't do right, you were gone. Will you commit to doing what's right for the veteran?When it comes to the personnel that are handling these people? We can talk about acts, and laws, and bills, and all this. It ain't going to make a damn bit of good unless we get the people that's running these VAs and these homes that take care of our veterans, we don't get the best. Will you commit to that?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:36:29):

Senator, thank you for that. I mean, your last statement is not just your profession, but I think every other profession in the world expects accountability, and I think that's what raises the standard. So yes, we're going to have accountability, the VA Accountability and Whistleblower Act, which by the way passed unanimously out of the Senate, it's intent was to make sure that those workers who were not fulfilling their mission, they were not going to take a job anymore.

(01:36:54)
I intend to make sure that this is a promise that I have is that if there is someone who is harming or in the way of our veteran and taking a veteran's benefit away, I have no problem in getting rid of that person and making sure we do it properly. And I have no problem with the legal repercussions of that, because there's no one at the VA going to stand in the way of a veteran getting the care properly, and if they're not doing it safely, which we saw many of those were not doing it safely, and putting our veterans in harm way.

(01:37:19)
But I will say it again, and I think you would agree with me, I will be the biggest cheerleader for every VA employee out there who is out there getting up every morning doing it right, making sure we're taking care of our veterans. But I believe the only way I can make them better, the only way I can push them, is to not allow those not to do it. So we have to have that accountability. This body passed it unanimously. It is about raising standards. It's about saying that we're going to expect the best, and we're going to require the best. Because if I want to retain doctors, if I want to retain nurses, if we want to retain benefits people, then you got to set a standard that says, "I'm proud to be here." And for me, I want to lead an agency that works and puts our veterans first, and holds accountable those that have not.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:38:01):

Awesome. 2023, it was reported to us, some of our VAs, especially our community care systems, we're funding illegal aliens' healthcare. Would you please look into that once you take this office?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:38:22):

Yes Senator, I will. I do not believe any money that's taken outside the mission of the VA to help the veteran is a worthy cause of the money that has been appropriated for the veteran, and we will not be doing that.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:38:30):

We were given a budget shortfall just back last July. We were called and told by the administration that we're $3 billion short, and we had to come up very, very quickly, or we were going to default in the VA. You can imagine how frustrated we all got with that when we found out that we actually had a surplus. I would hope that we take better care of what we do with our money, and we know where it's at. Also,

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:39:00):

One thing before I go off here, and I didn't get a chance to talk to you about this back when we met. Electronic healthcare, nobody's told you this, $20 billion on updating our VA's electronic healthcare records over the last decade, the Department of Defense completed their update, yet the VA has nothing to show for the $20 billion. Houston, we got a problem.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:39:28):

Houston, Atlanta, DC, everywhere else, we have a problem that is not acceptable. That's one of the things that we're going to, as we've said earlier, and we talked about this earlier, we're going to have to get into very quickly, but every player on the table to make sure that we're getting it right from the VA perspective and from Oracle perspective as it's currently held. A DOD and VA are very different, but also as I said before, we're special but not unique. What we can do can be done and there's ways that we can look at that, and I think Senator King talked about ways that we can, let's do what we can do. We're going to get that right. Even up here, eight years and that much money and no results, only five places I believe actually still, is not acceptable.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:40:05):

Thank you. Thank you Senator. Senator Sanders.

Senator Sanders (01:40:07):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations on your new position. Look forward-

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:40:10):

Thank you.

Senator Sanders (01:40:11):

… to working with you.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:40:12):

Former Mr. Chairman.

Senator Sanders (01:40:16):

The job that you have been nominated for is an impossibly difficult job. I just want to say for the record that I think Dennis McDonough, the gentleman who came before you has done a very good job in the context of what he had to deal with. Mr. Collins, in two independent assessments last year, the VA outperformed non-VA hospitals in terms of patient satisfaction and hospital quality. I can tell you that in Vermont, you talked to the average veteran who accesses VA. They say, "You know what? The care is pretty good." I think that's probably true in most parts of the country and that takes place within a healthcare system, a private healthcare system, which is largely broken and dysfunctional. Strikes me from what I have heard, there are three approaches to the VA.

(01:41:16)
There are some folks, extremists who think get rid of the VA completely send veterans out into the private sector. Others including the nominee for Defense Secretary, Mr. Hegseth who have indicated that the VA should be there for specialized care. People with PTSD, people with amputations, particular problems that veterans have, specialized care. And there are those of us, including myself, who think that when people are asked to put their lives on the line to defend this country, you know what? All veterans are entitled to all of the healthcare that they need. That's my view. Where do you come out on that?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:41:57):

Senator, It's great to sit in the office and talk to you, especially chairman, your perspective you have. We come out very similar. I've said before and I said it to this committee early on, there'll always be a VA health system for the veteran. And like we talked about in your office, I think what we're going to do is make sure that the VA centers that are strong, can get better. But also I have states that I've talked to in other senators who have maybe one facility that is doing well and another facility that's not. So we can't paint with a broad stroke, even on the private sector that you mentioned to say that any one in of particular is the rule for all. So I'm for getting that and making sure that we have it.

Senator Sanders (01:42:32):

Okay, here's the problem. There is a limited amount of money. Community care spending went from $8 billion in 2014 to $31 billion in 2025. Ideally, what we could say is, "Hey, you're a veteran, you want to go into a private camp, no problem. You want to go to the VA? No problem. Have a strong VA, strong private care." They don't have enough money to do that. So in fact, what the debate comes down to is not whether somebody should be able to access community care, but where are we going to put our resources? Are we going to allow the VA to wither on the vine, so to speak? Do you understand where I'm coming from? Are you willing to tell us that you're going to fight for a strong VA in every state in this country?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:43:23):

Senator, that's a non-negotiable. We're going to fight for a strong VA. Now, what I understand your perspective, you didn't vote for the mission act, which is where community care started. I understand your perspective, but I also understand the will of the body and the law and I understand veterans today. I believe you can have both. I believe you have a strong VA as it currently exists and have the community care aspect.

Senator Sanders (01:43:43):

Okay. Vermont issue. You are inheriting an incredible bureaucracy that is very slow-moving at times. There are two CBOCs in the Vermont area, one in Chittenden County, our most populated area, one in the southern part of the state, probably be located in the New Hampshire area. Keene, New Hampshire, access to both Vermont and New Hampshire veterans. It has been moving along rather slowly. Will you assure me that you're going to take a hard look to make sure that those CBOCs get moving rapidly?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:44:17):

Yes. Senator, we were talking about with Senator Bozeman as well, those are issues that we've got to look at and make sure the priorities, the money's there. We're going to look sure-

Senator Sanders (01:44:24):

It's not just the VSA, it's not just the VA. The VA works with the GSA.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:44:30):

I understand.

Senator Sanders (01:44:31):

And it is a problem, okay? Take a hard look at that one. There are massive staff shortages in the VA, and I am concerned about the hiring freeze that President Trump has initiated. Will you stand up publicly and say, "You know what? We need every healthcare, every VA health facility in this country to be adequately staffed. We will not accept staff shortages and make sure that we have the people that we need."

Congressman Doug Collins (01:45:06):

I'll advocate to make sure our veterans are taken care of, but I'll also support in the fact that we'll take a look at the current levels of employees that we have and where they're properly located and we'll work with that, and the president will work under the executive order that he has given.

Senator Sanders (01:45:19):

Look, in English, we all understand this. There are inefficiencies in the VA. There's waste in the VA. Every government agency. On the other hand, the VA in general in my view, does an excellent job. They need the support. So you want to go after waste inefficiencies? Do it, but make sure that we have the quality of doctors, nurses, staffing, that we need to take care of every veteran in this country.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:45:42):

Thank you, Senator.

Senator Sanders (01:45:46):

Senator Tillis.

Senator Tillis (01:45:47):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. And Mr. Collins, thank you for being here. You and I have a lot in common. We were both born in August, you six years after me, we both entered state legislature at the same time in 2007 in two different states. And you got a sister that was born in the same hospital that both of my babies were born in. Am I right? You also have the benefit of me tracking since I lived in Atlanta for about four years, tracking Georgia politics. You are a very good, solid, reasonable congressman, so I know all I need to know about supporting your nomination. I know you've said multiple times you're not going to privatize the VA, you're not forcing veterans out, you've done that. I think you were sworn in testimony. So would you just do a pinky swear or two that you're not going to privatize the VA?

(01:46:46)
Here we go. Okay, good.

Senator Sanders (01:46:48):

[inaudible 01:46:49].

Senator Tillis (01:46:48):

Pinky swear aside, the reason that's important is that some people, not everybody, I think that Senator Sanders is genuine and has concerns. But folks, there is no… Let me just say again what I've said every time privatization and forcing veterans out of the VA to seek private care. There is no serious discussion among lawmakers to do that.

(01:47:14)
And by serious discussion, I mean that could ever see the light of day. I have very few skills. One of them is counting votes. There is simply not enough to even consider it a threat. And the reason why I hit this head on is there are veterans who could be led to believe that that's a risk. It is not a risk. You don't have to come to Washington because a vote is imminent. The VA is the largest healthcare system in the United States. It does a lot of things good and in many cases it does it better than the private care providers could ever imagine because of the unique status it has, in many cases veterans, serving veterans. So again, thank you for that pinky swear.

(01:47:58)
Now let's move on to the unpleasant part of my discussion. Has nothing to do with you. I have supported every VA nominee who's come before this committee, and I supported the secretary of the VA when I came in the Obama administration. I've had a great working relationship up to and including with Secretary McDonough. I have concerns, even some the date back to VA Secretary Wilkie who was my MLA before he went on to be a VA secretary. The implementation of the electronic health record is a bipartisan, multi-administration disaster. There is no way on God's green earth that we should have spent $10 billion to have only a fraction of the [inaudible 01:48:43] even touched. So do I have your commitment to go through that program, to quickly get it moving again, and get an integrated health chart that also can integrate with the DOD so that we can finally have a seamless transition from active status or reserve status to veteran status, and provide premium care at the VA?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:49:07):

Yes. Senator Tillis, for the rare reason of this, is what you just said about seamless care is actually a safety and security issue for my veterans.

Senator Tillis (01:49:14):

It absolutely it is. The electronic health record, I've got a real problem. We need to have a review. I don't know if it's an Inspector General's report or something else, but folks, I did large-scale systems implementation work for the vast majority of my career. I've done that more than I've done being a US senator or a state representative. This is a disaster, and I would like the people involved, not only the contractors, but having been the contractor before, my guess is it's rooted in bureaucracy and people responsible for the implementation within the VA not doing it right. So will you commit to me to doing a project review? I'll come to your turf to do it.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:49:59):

Yeah, we're looking forward to the project review. This for me has been, one of the first looking at it, how only up here would this allow it to go on as long as it had. So look, I'm putting on notice today that I'm committed to everyone here. We're going to bring everyone to the table. That's vendor, that's VA, everybody in the middle and figure out what this problem is, because it's time to fix it.

Senator Tillis (01:50:20):

Well, I'd love to be at the table when you have some of those discussions, to be honest with you, and lend you some free consulting advice. Last thing I want to leave you with, because I say it in most of the hearings, I did not vote for the PACT Act, in spite of the fact that my office was responsible for the formulation of the Team Act that was in that bill, which was to provide care to warriors who were exposed to toxics, and also the Camp Lejeune Toxics Act, which my colleague, Senator Sullivan, has been trying to work to reduce the compensation.

(01:50:52)
I didn't vote it because I was absolutely convinced it was going to be where it is today. It's a $700 billion between mandatory and discretionary spending, unfunded bill that got out of the oven too soon, and now we know you've got shortfalls that you're going to have to fix in the billions of dollars, because we didn't take the time to actually get the PACT Act right. I hate it, not being able to vote for that bill, but I voted against it because we promised out of this committee that we would fix it before it got to vote on the floor. Now we got to fix it and you can count me as somebody that will be helpful.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:51:31):

Thanks, Senator. I look forward to that because that is going to be one of the first issues we got to tackle from the budgetary standpoint. But also, and I will say to the committee, and we've talked about this in many of your offices, I'm also looking ahead to the Elizabeth Dole Act and actual implementation and implementation cost on it. I think it's something we've got to take care of, but it's got an implementation cost as well.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:51:50):

Thank you. Senator Hassan.

Senator Hassan (01:51:53):

Thank you Mr. Chair, and congratulations on your chairmanship. I look forward to working with you and ranking member Blumenthal. And Congressman Collins, it is good to see you. It was good to sit down with you the other day. Congratulations on your nomination and thank you to you for your service to our nation and to your family as well for their sacrifices, because we know when an individual serves, the whole family serves, and I welcome them here today as well.

(01:52:19)
One quick comment to follow up on what Senator Slotkin was asking you about. I appreciated your expression that you would be willing to let the president know or anybody else in the administration know if you thought that budget cuts would hurt service to veterans. And I will just say, having done this work at the state level and now here, it is tempting for people in your position to tell their bosses, "Whatever budget you give me will get the job done," because that's what you want to be able to do. But cutting direct care people in a healthcare system, cutting people who coordinate care so that veterans can get integrated care, can really, really harm veterans, so I will hold you to your statement that you will stand up for veterans in the budget discussions, because it's going to be real important

Congressman Doug Collins (01:53:10):

And thank you Senator. I allow on that question. It is true. I mean, as we've said and brings the uniqueness, I've been on that side. There's only limited dollars and there is consequences, and there's a big thought up here on Capitol Hill that we vote on ideas. We don't vote on ideas, we vote on words on paper and those cost money. So yes, I'll stand up. And look, the President has made it very clear to take care of veterans and I will say as we look for efficiencies, we look for the things to run those agencies. I'll say, "Here's the cost benefit of that," and we will move forward with that, making sure we take care of the veterans.

Senator Hassan (01:53:41):

Well, I appreciate that. I want to move on now to a topic that I know Senator Sullivan also touched on. President-elect Trump supported a full service VA hospital for New Hampshire when he was on the campaign trail. I've supported a full-service hospital in our state for years and will gladly work with you and the president to make that happen. In the meantime though, the current Manchester VA Medical Center is almost 75 years old and it needs significant upgrades. The facility's age is showing. Twice over the past eight years, pipes have burst, temporarily closing parts of the medical center. And when I say temporarily we're talking months. Rescheduled surgeries, the whole nine yards. It has been terrible. So following a push from the New Hampshire delegation to prioritize improvements to the medical center, the VA has begun implementing a multi-year upgrade plan. Will you commit to continuing these upgrades to make sure that Granite State veterans have the best possible medical facility to receive their care at and will you come up to New Hampshire to visit the facility and meet our veterans?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:54:45):

I'll take the last one first. Yes. But I will assure you not only Granite State veterans, but all across the country, they'll be taken care of and looking at our needs. The infrastructure needs, I'm glad we're talking about that today, because it's not just the new facility, it's not just the new CBOC. It's taking these older facilities that, as you said, once they're shut down, and then the bureaucratic process to get it fixed. And so, that is it. But also with President Trump's commitment, look, I'm going to support the president, we're going to look to that hospital. But I think you've brought up a bigger issue that I hope all of the committee members will understand, is I wish we could, as I said before, have this rose-colored old pixie dust, It'll just fix itself. But construction issues are going to be one of our hardest because of age of facilities.

Senator Hassan (01:55:28):

Right, Thank you. Let's talk about rural veterans. They face several challenges in accessing VA healthcare. For example, they have to travel long distances to access their VA healthcare facilities, and that usually means that they're going to want to schedule multiple appointments on the same day, so they don't have to do all the travel back and forth. Unfortunately, some VA medical appointments can only be scheduled by calling the individual clinic directly, meaning veterans often have to make several calls to multiple disconnected offices just to try to coordinate and schedule their appointments. And then they schedule one, then they call back the other find out the slot they thought they had is gone. So that's why Senator Boseman and I introduced the Bipartisan Improving Veteran Access to Care Act, which would require the VA to create a streamlined scheduling system where veterans can either call or go online to view and schedule appointments for all of the VA healthcare. Congressman Collins, will you support this effort and work with me and Senator Boseman to pass this bill and implement its change to help our veterans?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:56:29):

Well, Senator, I look forward to seeing in that and looking into it further, but I'm going to tell you from a conceptual standpoint, the better question for me is why haven't we almost got there anyway? I mean, because that thing about I can… And I'm not to reduce appointment times to an app, but when you can order five people's food and send it to five different places at the same time on your phone, why can't I go to one place? And I think for our younger veterans, and I think we talked about this in our office. For our older veterans, it is a different way. They need to be personal. For my dad who's probably watching now, he wants to be on the phone, but the rest of them pick up the phone, "Let me get my three appointments and be done with."

Senator Hassan (01:57:03):

Yeah, and I thank you Mr. Chair and I will follow up in writing with you about the one last question I wanted to talk about, which was just the implementation of the Dole Act. Home care is incredibly important. It should be the wave of the future, because most people want to age at home or get their care if they have chronic illness or disabilities at home, something near and dear to my heart and the heart of veterans and I look forward to working with you on that.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:57:27):

And just briefly, Mr. Chairman, I just want to be real brief about it. That is something with this and I'm very proud of what y'all have accomplished there, but it's going to tell now take us implementation to make sure we do it right, if I'm confirmed you'll have that commitment.

Senator Hassan (01:57:37):

Thank you, sir.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (01:57:38):

Senator Hassan, thank you. Senator Cassidy.

Senator Cassidy (01:57:42):

Congressman Collins, great job on the chair. You're going to be a fabulous secretary of the VA and you have my support. You're a Georgia Bulldog fan, but that's okay, not everybody can be a go Tiger.

Congressman Doug Collins (01:57:57):

Go Dogs.

Senator Cassidy (01:57:59):

Listen, I've been concerned because there's such a backlog in terms of people applying for VA disability benefits from whatever program there is. It just doesn't happen. And when it finally happens, sometimes the person's dead.

(01:58:16)
Now, when I speak to people and read about the use of artificial intelligence, someone says it's the perfect bureaucrat, that once you set on the facts, it can process in a tremendous amount of information next to instantaneously, and come up with the same decision based upon the same set of facts over and over and over now. But it also learn, it's only something that happens if you lean into it. If you just say, "Well, it's really great, we'll get there when it happens," it never happens. If you say, "We are going to set up a system in which we red team it, and we're going to compare it to our best reviewers, and we're going to then compare the best reviewers to the AI, whichever is different, we're going to figure out why it's different. And if the AI is not as good, we're going to continue to refine it until we can scale it. And a VA, a veteran does not need to wait for his or her benefits." What do you think about that vision?

Congressman Doug Collins (01:59:14):

I wish it wasn't being presented as such a novel concept because it's really true. We can do that as you from your medical profession, and looking at why are we not using AI in the benefits of IT to actually take, especially from the benefit perspective and take the ones that are, quote, easy, the ones that match the box that we can get out of the way so that we can actually still hands-on those that are a little bit more difficult?

(01:59:36)
Here's some numbers that I'm sure you're familiar with and this committee is familiar with, and I'm proud of. Under President Trump and the previous administration, the backlog on the benefits cases got down to 65,000, I believe. In the past four years there's been a billion added to the budget and almost 70,000 employees, and right now there's a 265,000 backlog down from almost, I believe, double that.

(02:00:02)
We've went up with everything else. Why are we not able to get out some of these better in better ways? And that means doing efficiency, looking at AI, looking at other technology, not just from the benefit perspective but also from the medical perspective as well. We've got a healthcare record system that is non-existent right now that we're going to have to do, as you said, that red team approaches, your wording was. So I'm looking for every possible way that I can make it better. Why would I be satisfied for a system that is old and outdated or non-existent when my goal and my purpose and my mission is to take care of a veteran?

Senator Cassidy (02:00:33):

Now let me suggest, because one thing that happens here is that the agency says, "Give us the money and we'll come up with a system," and then two years later and then two years later and then two years later until you finally pull the plug. So somebody once said, "You should go out on your bid and say we want the system at least to be run on a pilot method within six months." Because what you're getting is people who already know how to do it indeed are already doing it in one form and they're adapting their system to yours. Now, I would suggest, as we work as a team, that we come up with something that we would say, "Okay, you got six months to do it and then we're going to do it." If we see veterans who have been waiting forever to get their stuff, getting it quickly, getting it appropriately, not too much, not too little, then we can take it to scale. But other agencies have just taken the money and taken the money that's become a black hole. So thoughts about that?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:01:34):

My main thought about that is someone who's been on this hill in dealing with budgets, and it was the merry thing that most of us go home and do town halls, they do not understand how we do appropriations up here. They do not understand how we spend money up here. They don't get to do that at home. They don't get to do it with their own budget. So when we tell them, "Oh, we're spending money but show nothing for it," that's something that's a foreign concept and I think is to foster the distrust that we see. So for me, setting deadlines is the only way you get things done. Setting deadlines and appropriate measures and metrics are the way you get things done. I am going to be one that is actually going to say, "Here's the defining aspect of what we've been given. Let's use the best results. Let's use the best processes. Let's use the employees we have and the best people."

Senator Cassidy (02:02:13):

I like that. As opposed to 10 billion, figure it out is going to be, "Here's a chunk of money if you can show you can do it, we'll take it to scale, but if not, we're pulling the plug and going someplace else." So anyway, thank you.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:02:24):

Thanks, Senator.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (02:02:24):

Thank you, Dr. Cassidy. Senator Duckworth?

Senator Duckworth (02:02:29):

Thank you Mr. Chairman, congratulations on your chairmanship. It's good to be on another committee with you. Congressman, welcome. I really enjoyed our conversation. I'm not going to speak further on privatization of VA and my opposition to it. I think that you would agree, would you not, that VA is uniquely suited to provide the highest quality of healthcare to veterans, and that privatizing VA would create a significant challenge wherein veteran care would be outsourced to providers not equipped for this specialized training, directly impacting the quality of care afforded to veterans?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:03:04):

Senator, again, it was good to talk to you. You would not believe how many times I've used our conversation in discussions with CBOCs and other things, so it has been good to see. Of course, I mean, I think when you look at this issue that the VA is uniquely positioned to deal with veterans and has the data, which you and I talked about, that can provide not only help for our veterans currently in the system, but even outside the system, using that data then to help others outside. We have a unique control group, if you would, that can actually look at that. I think with someone we can definitely continue to work on, and as I've stated before, there'll always be a VA health care center for those veterans that come home.

Senator Duckworth (02:03:40):

Yeah, just keep the VA medical center home, and then if they need care for their specialized treatment, they can go somewhere else. But as long as the VA know what's happening and is keeping track, I think that's really important for the veterans' best health.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:03:51):

I think as we do it efficiently and [inaudible 02:03:54], and we make sure the veteran is the center of that, that's exactly what we need to. You and I mentioned this that I think we need more… The issue of women's veterans coming in, which are a large population of our veterans coming in now, making sure that if they want to receive that care in the VA. For instance, right now there is depending on discussion, lack of mammogram equipment, those are things that are large VAs who satisfy a large number of female veterans, they're having to do that. If they wanted to stay in, they couldn't. So I think working it both ways is where we need to be.

Senator Duckworth (02:04:23):

Yeah, I think what is the best medical treatment is where we need to go. I mean, in the case of mammograms, you need somebody who reads thousands and thousands of mammograms, and if you only take your small number of female veterans, I wouldn't want to have my mammogram read by someone who only reads 100 mammograms a year as opposed to a partner organization like that rural hospital or somebody who reads thousands of mammograms, so that they can better spot any problems.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:04:51):

Exactly. And that brings me to… I'm going to maybe jump ahead of you a little bit. I think it goes back to your discussion we had in the office about the CBOC and rural hospital issue that they could, and I think what you made was a very good point, and I'm going to take it a step further about what you just said though. It's the sharpening of skills. For those of us who've been to Iraq and have been to Afghanistan, we saw trauma and emergency care at its finest.

(02:05:14)
I mean, if they came through the Hero's Highway at Balad, 98% of those made it back home alive. Now, some of them didn't. You were one that's someone who didn't, but they got back home and I remember a time that I sat with a young man who, I was with him and prayed with him and he had… I'll never forget him, because he had blonde hair, blue eyes. And I went back later that evening and he was gone. They had already got him on a plane and got him later. A week and a half later, I looked at Stars and Stripes and I saw his picture. But I was comforted by knowing he was back home when he passed. That is sharpening of skills, and in the VA we need to have that. We have to make sure that our veterans are getting that same kind of treatment so that our skills and their treatment are matching.

Senator Duckworth (02:05:54):

Wonderful, thank you. If confirmed, will you commit to working with myself and my colleagues on this committee to strengthen and refine VA policies that improve wait times and access to VA healthcare rather than resorting to privatization?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:06:08):

Yes. I think that is one we're looking at right now, is a VA that has the VA healthcare system. And again, it goes back to the service of veteran. If any time… I'll say it again, I said it before, and I'll say it again when they have to call my office when I was in Congress or your office now, that is a failure from the VA. And it's not a failure on the people. So for anybody try to twist what I'm saying, that's not what I'm saying. The VA has a mission to take care of veterans. If for some reason the veteran is not able to get that care, then we need to step up and make sure the answer why. So yes, trimming down wait times, making sure they get that, because some of the things we could be missing are preventative care that could actually help us long-term in our cost perspective if we're catching it early.

Senator Duckworth (02:06:48):

Yeah, thank you. I'm glad you mentioned preventative care. Right now, preventative healthcare is something that patients in the Affordable Care Act or other places do not have to pay for their preventative care. So your prostate cancer screening, your mammograms for breast cancer, colon cancer screening, your statins for your cholesterol medication, you don't pay a copay for that, but veterans do. I've confirmed you support making a non-controversial common sense fix to ensure that VA coverage aligns without a commercial healthcare and tricare and help me eliminate the copays for veterans for preventative healthcare?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:07:22):

I look forward to working with this committee on that because I do believe as you do that, the preventative aspect of that is very important.

Senator Duckworth (02:07:28):

Thank you. [inaudible 02:07:29], Mr. Chairman.

Senator Tommy Tuberville (02:07:31):

Senator Blackburn?

Senator Blackburn (02:07:32):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. And Mr. Collins, always good to see you. I appreciate that. As we served in the house, you were known as being a consensus builder and a problem solver. And I think as we look at the VA and the situation that is there, we need someone who can build consensus among the employees and solve some problems that are existing in the VA. You made a comment about it was important to get the right people doing the right job, and I agree with that. And as we have been overseeing the VA, something that has been a consistent problem is the return to work policy, and the lack of individuals that are working full-time.

(02:08:31)
At one point out of VA benefits, they were only required, according to Secretary McDonough, they only had to work in-person two out of 10 days, and then in healthcare they had to work in-person five out of the 10 days. So that is a problem and I fully believe that's why the backlog, as you mentioned, that long-term backlog is at 265, 000. If you put those that are under 120 days on that list, you are at 956,000. This is because people don't go to work. So where are you on that, and having that return to work policy?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:09:22):

Thank you, Senator. It's good to see you. It's also good to see you back over here, as we've worked together many times. And I do pride myself, as I mentioned in my opening statement about the stuff that we worked on, Bipartisan, Music Modernization Act, which you are such a great champion of as well. And we're going to have to work together on this, but I do believe people need to come to work. The President's made it very clear, he made that very clear that people need to come to work. Now, there are certain issues and times and before the question is asked that we have a large portion of the VA workforce is unionized and they're in contracts, but we're going to work together to get people back to work.

Senator Blackburn (02:09:52):

What percentage of those employees are union?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:09:54):

80.

Senator Blackburn (02:09:54):

80%?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:09:55):

Approximately 80% of 470-ish thousand.

Senator Blackburn (02:09:58):

Okay.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:09:59):

And some of them in the telework agreement. Look, we're going to encourage them to come back to work. We're going to follow the President's directive in that and we're going to make sure that we get people in there because at the end of the day, it's about veterans. My hospital employees, if I was confirming this, they have to show up every day.

Senator Blackburn (02:10:11):

Okay. That is encouraging because you look at the… We've talked about the health records, the EHRs and the fumbling, the $15 billion that has been spent on that, not to have those records. The way there is no transfer, data transfer from DOD to the VA on those health records. This is a problem we can fix. We've got a lot of good health IT experts in Nashville that could fix this. And when they hear from people that are in the VA system about they can't get any care, the wait times, and we've talked some about the backlog.

(02:10:59)
At the Fort Campbell facility, VA facility, the wait to get a primary care appointment today, and we've just checked our numbers, is 81 days. And in Chattanooga it's 110 days. In Murfreesboro, it is 54 days. That is completely unacceptable. And if people are going to not show up to work, if they're beholden to the union, and say that it is about them and not about the vet, that is something that is just completely unacceptable. And it's one of the reasons we need to strengthen community care. The suicide rate, that 34.7 individuals per 100,000 of our vets that choose suicide, the mental health components, and having that community care where they can access

Mrs. Blackburn (02:12:00):

It in their community without having to travel, having an EHR that they are carrying with them to the doctor, that will be helpful.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:12:11):

Senator, you've hit a multitude of things there that are all important to the very end and aspect and that's the health and safety and the wellness of our veterans. The healthcare record system, there's nowhere else we can even point to. If a doctor in the VA walked out and decided to go take a job in the private sector, guess what they're going to find when they get there? Electronic healthcare records.

Mrs. Blackburn (02:12:31):

That's right.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:12:31):

So the system that we currently use when, it still is F1, F2, it is unacceptable because it creates what the problem that you've seen going forward. Look, I believe in all workforce and I believe that the employees at the VA, whether they're union or not, are very valuable and I respect that. I was, years ago, five years in the Food and Commercial Workers Union when I was in the Big Star grocery store. I get the issue. But also, I believe we ought to bring people back to work. That we ought to make it in a way that people are not only employees, but at the end of the day we remember it's not about the VA, it's about the vet.

Mrs. Blackburn (02:13:05):

That's exactly right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Moran (02:13:08):

Senator Blackburn, we're going to have a brief second round. I want to, I'm going to turn to Senator Blumenthal to begin that, but I want to ask unanimous consent at this point to add to the hearing record. Letters of support for Congressman Collins nomination. They come from the Wounded Warrior Project, AMVETS, Blinded Veterans Association, Military Veterans Advocacy, Avalon Action Alliance, America First Vets, National Defense Committee, Mission Roll Call, Burn Pits 360, Jewish War Veterans, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Luke's Wings, and the Valor Mission Project. Without objection, those letters of support are entered into the record. Senator Blumenthal, I recognize you for five minutes.

Senator Blumenthal (02:13:52):

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. As we were talking a little bit earlier last night, the White House issued various executive orders. Some of them dealt with a federal hiring freeze, a freeze on regulations and other issues. We're still reviewing them. In my office, the issue of a workforce hiring freeze memorandum claims that it will not "adversely impact the provision of social security, Medicare or veterans benefits." I'd like to know from you, what does that mean in practical terms about the employees who deliver veterans healthcare or work in cemeteries? Does this language exempt all of the VA's positions from the hiring freeze?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:14:56):

I think Senator, we're still, like you, examining that, but we support the president's initiative here in the freeze, but also as far as what it says, I'll take it at the words that's on the paper and that's not going to affect it because we have people doing those benefits packages right now. We have people working at that and the implication would be that adding more people would fix whatever the problem is. I'm convinced right now that the workers and the benefits we need to make better efficiencies with what we currently have-

Senator Blumenthal (02:15:20):

That's not [inaudible 02:15:21]-

Congressman Doug Collins (02:15:21):

So I support that.

Senator Blumenthal (02:15:22):

Yeah, that's not reassuring to me because I'm asking not about the VA employees who work on benefits. I'm asking about the folks who are in the hospitals, in the care facilities, at the cemeteries. They're not dispersing benefits. They're providing care.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:15:41):

Right.

Senator Blumenthal (02:15:42):

And as you well know, there are extraordinary problems in recruiting and retaining the doctors, the nurses, and filling their ranks where there are openings right now. So the explicit language of that memorandum seems to include them in the hiring freeze.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:16:06):

Going by the way you've worded, I will say this. So hiring freeze in the wording that you use, and I do not have this before me so I'm not going to comment completely on it. I do not have it in front of me. I'm going off of the memory. We're still examining that as well. I can assure you President Trump is, in this executive order, is to get assessment on where we are with our employees. It is not to take away from anything that is currently there in future. And the way that your question is worded is implying that they would not be there to do the veterans' healthcare. The cemetery work. That's going to continue. This new freeze, new hire freeze is not there. We may not at this point bring in a new person tomorrow unless we need it, but this is where we're at. And I think what he's done is to get an assessment on where we are.

Senator Blumenthal (02:16:47):

Well, you and I are trading a lot of words. Let me come right to the point. I'm asking you to fight to fill the openings, not a hiring freeze, in the ranks of the doctors, the nurses, the attendants, everybody who works in care facilities or in veterans' cemeteries rather than leaving those positions open because those folks are needed to care for veterans. Will you seek an exemption to the hiring freeze for those positions that concern veterans' care, including the Veterans Crisis Line?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:17:32):

I will take everything that you've said into consideration and understand that the freeze and support the executive order while at the same time if confirmed, be willing to make sure that there's nothing missing in the process. We may, as you said-

Senator Blumenthal (02:17:42):

[inaudible 02:17:43] first-

Congressman Doug Collins (02:17:42):

We're sharing words. I think we're saying the same thing.

Senator Blumenthal (02:17:44):

Well, no, we're not. With all due respect.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:17:47):

I respect that. I respect that.

Senator Blumenthal (02:17:48):

This is going to be a first test of your leadership. Whether you fight for an exemption in the hiring freeze for the non-veterans benefits employees who were needed to care for veterans at medical facilities and other places including the Veterans Crisis Line, rather than have them covered by that hiring freeze.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:18:15):

Senator, I view this not as a test of what I'll do. I believe it is a test of two different assumptions, and assuming that just because there's opening that there's an actual need at that point that makes a veteran miss their benefits of healthcare. I think the two, we're coming at it from two separate perspectives. There may be openings but there was openings yesterday. There was openings last week. This is simply looking at ahead to say where we're at at this point. I think we're coming at this as two separate perspectives. I respect yours greatly, but I think what we're going to see is no one on the veteran healthcare side is going to miss their healthcare provider because of this new hire freeze.

(02:18:49)
The president is doing a prudent step as he comes into office to make sure that we have a good handle on what we've got in going forward. I will always fight, Senator, and I've told you this in your office and I'll tell you again here, for what we need at our facilities, but I'm also not going to fight for issues in which I believe that I've not had a chance to study and make sure that this issue is taken care of. I do not believe this is going to have the impact that you're having because I think we're coming at it from two different perspectives.

Senator Blumenthal (02:19:15):

Well, I will just say, I don't want to get into an argument here, but there are possible openings where, let's say, the head of the West Haven VA facility says, "Oh, well, we don't need to fill that position," but there are also openings where the director of the facility is saying, "We need more nurses. We need more doctors. We need more mental health care." You and I have talked about this issue.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:19:45):

Yes.

Senator Blumenthal (02:19:45):

You can't provide veterans healthcare without the people, the skilled professionals to do it.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:19:52):

I appreciate that.

Senator Blumenthal (02:19:53):

And I hear you saying if there's an opening, it means that we don't need somebody for that opening.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:20:00):

No. I think, Senator, just a general reminder, last week, Secretary McDonough could have filled those positions. He chose not to, or couldn't find anybody.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:10):

Well, he may have-

Congressman Doug Collins (02:20:11):

This is a new [inaudible 02:20:12].

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:12):

Wanted to and you may have talked to him about it, but it's not easy to fill those positions.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:20:17):

And Senator-

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:17):

[inaudible 02:20:18].

Congressman Doug Collins (02:20:17):

That's why we're taking the perspective of where we're at. And again, I appreciate that. We'll work on this together. But also I respect what the president's done. I think it's a prudent step looking forward and that the healthcare is not going to be compromised in that process, I support that.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:31):

Let me move on. Will you commit to expending every effort and every dollar to reach every veteran at risk of suicide, including those who are not now enrolled in the VA system?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:20:47):

Senator, that's the easiest question you've asked all day. And I appreciate it. No, yes, I will do everything possible. This from my heart. And you've heard it mentioned. There's nothing more sacred to me or my perspective and my faith and my God that everyone is made in the image of God and deserves life and encouragement for that. I think we need to actually have more any way we can to reach that person. As someone who's been on the other end of that line, when somebody called me and said, "Chap, I'm ready to end it. There's no worthy…" I'm not willing to let anybody go by because I believe in the inherency of life and the grace that was given to me.

Senator Blumenthal (02:21:21):

As you know, the rate of firearm suicide is significantly higher among veterans than non- veterans. And so will you commit to looking for ways that firearms related suicides can be reduced?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:21:41):

I'm committed to looking at any instrumentality that takes the life of one of our veterans.

Senator Blumenthal (02:21:50):

On the issue of homelessness, is there more that can be done to prevent or address veterans homelessness?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:21:56):

Yes, there's many things that need to be done. And I think we've got to look at it from a cross-government approach, not only just with the VA, but with HUD, but also with HHS. There's many aspects that I don't think we're touching at this point. So for me, it is again about, how do we make the best resources of the limited funds that come from our government?

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:14):

You've been asked, and I think you've answered and I don't want to repeat this issue, whether you will continue to abide by the VA rule concerning abortion counseling and care in cases of rape, incest, life or health endangerment of a pregnant veteran. Will you commit that you will inform this committee if and when you begin reconsideration of the present rule?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:22:46):

I will keep this committee informed. The chairman and the ranking member will know any of the discussions and decisions as we get toward that decision.

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:53):

As you begin consideration, you'll let us know?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:22:56):

We'll get into that when we get in there. I'll keep the committee informed of things that we have going on. I have to get in there first. If confirmed by this committee, which I hope to earn votes for, we'll see what we got when we get there.

Senator Blumenthal (02:23:07):

Let me just ask you finally, and I appreciate the chairman indulging this additional time.

Chairman Moran (02:23:12):

Despite your earlier commentary about me.

Senator Blumenthal (02:23:15):

Well, I don't see anyone waiting to… I'm sorry. I apologize to Senator King. Just one more quick question. The PAC Act, as you know, established the Toxic Exposure Fund to pay for extended and expanded benefits without impacting other non-defense discretionary spending. If confirmed, do you intend to advocate for undoing or altering the Toxic Exposure Fund or would you like to continue in its present form?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:23:54):

I think any changes to any program will be [inaudible 02:23:57] for me to make policy at this or discuss that. I think we'll look at it, the [inaudible 02:24:01] but I think the intent of Congress will be carried out. I know there's some discretionary with the funding issues with that from the VA. We're going to look at that as we go forward. But I'm at this point I want to see where we're at because there is a concern that we made proper implementation that could have caused some of the budget shortfalls, and we have another program right on top of it which is going to be the Elizabeth Dole Act that I promised and commit to you that we're going to make sure that we look at so that we can properly implement your intent and the Congress's intent for this.

Senator Blumenthal (02:24:25):

Just for the record, I hope that you will continue this fund because it provides for a solid source of benefits for those veterans who are suffering from diseases relating to toxic exposures, and that you'll continue the outreach program that Secretary McDonough started. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Moran (02:24:48):

Senator King.

Senator Angus King (02:24:50):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to make something very clear. I don't want AI to decide if one of my veterans is entitled to the benefits they've earned. Period. Capiche?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:25:05):

Senator, there's no veteran going to miss the benefit that they earned by the position and the way they process their claims. But I think you and I will both come to a conclusion that if there are better ways to process a claim that our veterans can get their benefits quicker, then I'm willing to look at any opportunity to get their veterans benefits quicker. And if that involves AI, then I'm not willing to take it off the table. I'm not willing, though, to have, to be put into a position where AI is randomly in a situation… Especially with benefits and others that are more difficult, there'll always be a person there to oversee that process.

Senator Angus King (02:25:35):

Well, the experience thus far with AI in the insurance industry is not positive. And I don't want our veterans having to go through a claims litigation in order to overturn the decision of a machine somewhere. So I understand you're not willing to take it off the table, but I certainly hope it will be handled with great care because it will be very tempting to reduce staff and replace it with this technology, but I'm not confident in the technology right now to be making these life or death decisions for our veterans.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:26:09):

Yeah. I understand that and respect to your position, Senator. I do not view this as a life or death decision. I think these are decisions that could be made in how we look at the best efficiencies. And look, there'll always be, in my mind, especially when it comes to the veteran benefits, someone that overlooks and oversees that as well to make sure that it is working properly. If it went that way.

Senator Angus King (02:26:27):

Thank you. You're going to be under tremendous pressure as we move into this difficult budgetary situation. And there's a lot of pressure to reduce the budget. I think it's been pointed out here the Veterans Administration is one of the largest pots of money in the federal government. It's very easy to focus on the bureaucracy, that term, which carries with it a negative connotation, but I would point out that in many cases, staff cuts equal benefit cuts. Because if there's nobody there to answer the phone or if the process is delayed to the point where the veteran dies or just gives up, that's in effect a benefit cut.

(02:27:07)
So as you're under this pressure, and I believe you will be, I hope you'll take care to balance necessary efficiencies against the loss of services. You've said repeatedly and you said in my office, and I love it, you don't want us to have to be advocating for our veterans because they ought to get their benefits without having to come to a congressional office. Well, if staff cuts end up having nobody answer the phone or answer the phone after only a hundred rings or say, "We'll have to talk to you six days from now or six months from now," that's going to only aggravate the problem and you're going to be hearing from us on a daily basis instead of every other day.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:27:50):

I think, Senator, your point is taken. And I understand. I think the interesting question is, is these very things arise right now at the staffing levels that we have. I think there's more of an issue here, are we doing things as efficiently and processing as we can with the staffing that we currently have? Whether that's more or less staff. I think sometimes you have to look at the process. Why is it that we're back up at 250,000 backlog of benefits when we've had 130 billion in increase in funds and 70,000 employees? That's just, something's broken about that.

Senator Angus King (02:28:19):

I agree. And I commend you for wanting to follow up on that. And again, I have no problem with efficiency. And I think I can't complain about a hiring freeze. I actually signed a hiring freeze in my inaugural address as governor, so I understand that. On the other hand, I think the point that Senator Blumenthal was making, the hiring freeze should not apply to direct care workers. If my Togus Hospital in Maine needs a cardiologist and it's been open for a couple of months because they're hard to find, this hiring freeze should not prohibit them from continuing to search for, and if they can find a cardiologist, to sign them up. I hope you'll distinguish between direct care workers and others who serve veterans behind the scenes.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:29:04):

Thank you, Senator. If confirmed, we're going to always make sure that, as I've said many times before, no matter what the issue is, I'll always fight for making sure our veterans are getting the care in the proper way that they need to.

Senator Angus King (02:29:14):

Final point. There's no answer necessary for this, but one of the things you're going to be having to face is increasing demands for mental health services and long-term care. Long-term care as our veterans age is going to become a greater and greater issue. Elizabeth Dole Act starts to address that. But I just commend that to your thought process. And perhaps you can have people thinking about this. How are we going to provide those services that are going to become more and more necessary as time goes on?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:29:43):

Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the things that are already keeping me up at night are confirmed about this job. I appreciate you giving me more. But I also look forward to reaching out to you for helping in that as well. I do appreciate it.

Senator Angus King (02:29:52):

Thank you. I commend you for your participation this morning. Look forward to supporting your nomination.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:29:57):

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Chairman Moran (02:29:58):

Senator King, thank you very much. Let me just try to wrap up my thoughts and questions to you. And it's just a miscellaneous of things. First of all, I would tell you that we work closely with the inspector general at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I find him valuable both to me and to this committee, but should be valuable to the Department of Veterans Affairs. Anything that you want to say in regard to utilization of inspector general's reports and how the department will respond?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:30:33):

Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. When I was ranking member of House Judiciary, this was one of the issues that we dealt with at the Judiciary Committee, but also the Department of Justice, but also in other committees that I served on. Inspector generals play a vital role. We're not always possibly going to agree with the outcome, but we can come to a conclusion. Because always having other eyes on a situation is provided. I'm one of those that believes in gathering a lot of input and then making a decision. So if you're having input from an inspector general who's looking out for the best interest of what VA is for, then I'll be working with them and I'll look for [inaudible 02:31:04].

Chairman Moran (02:31:03):

I didn't mean to suggest, and don't think I did, that you need to agree with the inspector general. I do think that that extra set of eyes in the professional way-

Congressman Doug Collins (02:31:12):

Yes, sir.

Chairman Moran (02:31:12):

That that investigation is conducted has value, certainly gives us a greater opportunity for oversight, but that same kind of oversight is what a Secretary of Department of Veterans Affairs should be looking for, just like we do.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:31:24):

Yes, sir.

Chairman Moran (02:31:26):

We have a habit here of passing legislation. And there's lots of bills that are introduced, certainly. Some of them actually become law. And one of the things that I think it's important for this committee to try to assure is that we don't just take the applause, the pat on the back with our veterans or veteran organizations because we introduced a piece of legislation or we passed a piece of legislation. The real goal is to make sure that the legislative efforts, when a bill becomes law, that it actually benefits veterans. You and that Department of Veterans Affairs have a lot to say, have a lot to determine whether that is the outcome.

(02:32:06)
But I see it as our responsibility, this committee's responsibility to see that the laws that we pass actually have the outcome, the intended consequence that we were seeking, when we decided by a majority vote in the house and a super majority vote in the Senate, that this is something that matters and will make a difference in veterans' lives and well-being. So implementation, I'm saying this perhaps for the benefit of the committee more than you, but we ought not be satisfied with the outcome of our work with the passage of a piece of legislation. I don't know that that requires any response from you.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:32:45):

Could I respond to that, Mr. Chairman?

Chairman Moran (02:32:46):

Please.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:32:46):

Because I think it goes back to the uniqueness of my qualifications for this job, is being where you've been. And it's real easy to go around and say, "Oh, we passed this and now we [inaudible 02:32:56]." I was privileged enough to have, I believe it was 19 red lines actually passed into law. Some big stuff. First Step Act, Criminal Justice Forum. I did. We did [inaudible 02:33:05]. I have some of my former staff that were here with me that I literally stand on their shoulders. They did work. And the staff behind you who do good work. But now I'm getting to take, hopefully with the confirmation of this body, be able to step into a role in which I get to see the other end of it. Those words on paper actually matter to me. And I believe that carrying that out is one of my highest callings. Working for this president who's had the trust in me to put me into this position and his administration, what he's done before, I look forward to this opportunity.

Chairman Moran (02:33:32):

I thank you for that response. You mentioned the staff behind us, and rightfully so, you compliment and highlight the value and importance of their work. We have staff inquiries to the Department of Veterans Affairs that go back six months with no response. And we've worked with the previous staff at the VA, the previous secretary, and there was a great intent to see that the answers come. It will mean that it has to be prioritized. And so you have indicated earlier that you're going to be very responsive to Congress. Those too, like introducing a piece of legislation are words that you should say, and I hope that you can find every method possible to give us the information that we need to respond to what's going on at the Department of Veterans Affairs, and most importantly, accurate but also timely.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:34:30):

Mr. Chairman, there's many things that I've talked about today and I've enjoyed this time with this committee, but there's one thing that will be true. The way that we interact with this Hill, as of my confirmation, and I have the ability to sit in that seat, will change. The Legislative Affairs office is going to be much more on the Hill, they're going to be much more involved and they're going to get you answers. Six months is not tolerable. Again, I go back to the fact I've written those letters too. And it's not going to happen.

Chairman Moran (02:35:00):

It has taken way too long in many, many instances. And QFRS, hearing in which we ask for members the opportunity to ask additional questions at the end of the hearing, those responses are terribly, terribly slow, and again, impedes the capability of the committee doing its work. One of my experiences is that we bring a problem to the Department of Veterans Affairs and at least on a number of occasions we're successful in changing the policy or approach at the department. So again, much of what I know about what's going on with veterans is because they tell me what's going on with veterans.

(02:35:46)
And we discover there's a problem, we highlight that problem for the department. But on many, many occasions, and the answer comes back from the department, the central office of the Department of Veterans Affairs, " We've changed it. You're right. This needs to be different than it's been and we're going to conduct ourselves differently." The challenge becomes when the [inaudible 02:36:09] in Kansas or anybody else's [inaudible 02:36:12] doesn't know the changes have taken place in the central office. So we can have a few high five moments. We've solved a problem. But when it gets to the field, they've never heard of what we have been told in Washington DC by the department.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:36:27):

A high five in Washington DC is nothing in Kansas if it's not implemented. Look, that's one of the things I'm excited about. I come to this in a new position. Well, I've been doing, I've looked, been a part of the Hill, but also media and social media. Look at the applications that are out there now that we can tell the good. The department is going to hear from me directly. It's not going to come through memos. It's not going to come from me sitting behind a desk on high at central office. It's going to come from me through videos that are going to be on our social media. It's going to be through emails that we're going to send encouraging them to know this is my direction. They'll hear from me that if we're still getting that the idea that a veteran has to call their congressman or their senator for help, that we're missing the mark somehow. They're going to hear it directly from me.

(02:37:10)
And here's the other thing. They're going to see me. They're not going to have to wonder what I'm thinking because all of a sudden I may just show up at their hospital. I may just show up at their CBOC. And we're going to talk about it and we're going to make sure that our veterans are getting taken care of. I'm not pie-in-the-sky thinking I can wave my magic wand and make it happen, but I will tell you this, they're going to know who their secretary is. They're going to know who their secretary cares about. And it's that veteran that is in the system now and that veteran that is to come and that veteran that has gotten out and for some reason slipped through the cracks and does not know that they have benefits [inaudible 02:37:43]. And if they choose to take those, then they're going to be there for them or they're going to have a veteran's office that is waiting for them.

Chairman Moran (02:37:47):

I appreciate that. To my point, which you're responding to is that the assurance from the Department of Veterans Affairs that the problem has been solved often is not the circumstance of the field.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:37:58):

[inaudible 02:38:00].

Chairman Moran (02:38:04):

One of the things that, this is in the management aspect, and then maybe this is an issue or a challenge because of employment agreements, but it is not infrequent in which we bring a specific instance in which bad behavior, malfeasance, malpractice and insubordination, a list that could be long of errors and mistakes made by someone who works at the Department of Veterans Affairs in the field, and the response ultimately, if you ever hear about what happened to that person, that employee is we transferred them to another hospital. That can't be reassuring, shouldn't be reassuring to anyone. And maybe there's some impediment that makes it, can't be impossible, makes it difficult to actually fire someone. And the instances here are not employee grievances.

(02:39:07)
It's not mismanagement in the sense of, how do we get along here? These are egregious circumstances in which terrible things have happened to veterans and the response is never the, "You're out of here." At least that if that's the response, it rarely happens in the end. My point, which I don't think I explained very well, but the point is there has to be a better disciplinary circumstance in those extreme cases other than you are transferred to another facility. And that is for the well-being, safety, and importance of the veterans who are served by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:39:51):

Senator, I couldn't agree with you more. The concept of failing up is not a concept that I abide by. I'm a military person. I'm someone who's also employed people outside the government as well. But failing up is not an option. You don't fail up. And just because what we would do is I'll work within any agreements, employee agreements, collective bargaining. But if you're putting a veteran health and safety at harm, I will make sure the department will get rid of you. And we are willing to do whatever it takes to do that. Because here's the deal, and I don't think there's any senator or congressman who will disagree. If that happens, you shouldn't be there. We'll do everything within the agreements to make sure their processes are followed, but I will not tolerate it and that then in turn makes our better employees even better.

Chairman Moran (02:40:34):

You highlighted that point, and I was going to compliment you on it, that a culture, a sense of well-being of the employee, that it's a safe and valuable job and that you're doing good work is hugely important to the success of the Department of Veterans Affairs. And if other employees see that some employees get away with bad behavior, it diminishes the value and joy of working there.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:40:59):

Senator, I agree. There's an old saying that I ascribe to. There's two ones that I look at. And one will be on my desk if confirmed, and it says, "If it goes wrong, it's my fault. If it's a little bit okay, it's everybody. And if it's right, it's everybody else's so we lift everybody up. "But understand when you have employees that come to work every day doing it right and they feel like they have to carry a coworker along. After a while, they don't want to carry the coworker anymore. They just rose to the level. They go to that level. We're not going to tolerate that.

Chairman Moran (02:41:25):

Mr. Collins, it's always my practice, almost always my practice in a hearing to give our witnesses the chance to take back, to admit a mistake, want to correct the record to give a witness before the committee the chance to restate or clear something they felt like they didn't do in the first set of hearings, in the first two rounds of questioning. Anything you'd like to add to the record today?

Congressman Doug Collins (02:41:50):

No, Senator. I just want to appreciate the time, Ms. Chairman, Ranking Member Mr. King and all who stayed and come by. I've enjoyed the answers. I've enjoyed the questions. We're not always going to agree, but I'll guarantee you, I'll always listen. I'll always be a part and to take this job very seriously, to make sure that at the end of the day, our veterans are taken care of. And if anything, I'll say the only addition I'll have is I'm thankful for the ones sitting behind me, for my wife and my children, my father who's watching, and for those future employees, if I'm blessed enough to be confirmed by this body. Let the veterans of the VA know that we're coming to make a difference and we're going to be there to support you.

Chairman Moran (02:42:27):

Mr. Collins, thank you. Let me see anything that we're missing. Okay. Each member will have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks. In addition, any member who would like to send a question for the record to Congressman Collins should do so. Well, I don't know why we say as soon as possible. We actually need it by the end of business today. We have a executive session of this committee scheduled for Thursday, and so if there's something that you want to make sure that has not been asked or answered by a member of the committee, we need you, Mr. Collins, so that our process can continue with the consideration of your nomination, we need you to respond immediately.

Congressman Doug Collins (02:43:12):

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Senator Blumenthal (02:43:14):

I would just join Mr. Chairman in thanking you for the hearing and thanking Congressman Collins for your testimony here today, which I think has been very frank and forthright and very helpful to us. And really appreciate your candor and look forward to a working relationship where we're always candid with each other. And again, thank you for your service to our nation,

Chairman Moran (02:43:43):

Senator Blumenthal, thank you. I again, look forward to working with you in the next two years on this committee and see if we can accomplish good things for those who serve our country. Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.