Speaker 1 (00:00):
A jury in New York City today found Marine veteran Daniel Penny not guilty in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The death which took place on a subway car last spring has provoked intense reactions. Some are painting Penny as a savior who protected people, others see him as a reckless vigilante who went too far. Stephanie Sy has the details on the verdict and the case.
Stephanie Sy (00:23):
Jordan Neely was a homeless man who struggled with mental illness. On the day he died, he entered a crowded subway car yelling that he was hungry, thirsty, and ready to die or go to jail. That's when another passenger, Daniel Penny, took him to the ground in a choke hold that lasted for almost six minutes. When Penny let go, Neely was unresponsive. He was later pronounced dead at a hospital. The verdict brings an end to a closely watched trial that touched on questions around public safety, mental health, race, and homelessness. Neely's father spoke moments after the decision.
Andre Zachary (01:01):
I just want to say I miss my son. My son didn't have to go through this. I didn't have to go through this either. It hurts. Really, really hurts. What are we going to do people? What's going to happen to us now? I had enough of this, system is rigged.
Stephanie Sy (01:30):
Penny did not speak afterward, but his lawyer later said that he "Finally got the justice he deserved." Joining me to discuss the case is Samantha Max, public safety reporter for New York Public Radio Station, WNYC. And Samantha, you have been covering this trial. Thank you so much for joining us now. Going into this, we knew that New York City's medical examiner had ruled that Penny's six-minute choke hold on Neely caused his death. Help us understand how the jury could have arrived at this acquittal.
Samantha Max (02:05):
So Penny was charged with two crimes, manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. He couldn't have been, in any case, convicted of both. They kind of spoke to different mindsets, but basically the prosecution had to prove that Penny not only directly caused Neely's death but also that he knew or should have known that he could have been putting Neely's life in danger and that he wasn't justified in his actions. So ultimately, at least one of those factors, the jury felt enough doubt that they decided they could not find him guilty of those charges.
Stephanie Sy (02:44):
Daniel Penny's defense was that he was protecting himself and other riders. And both sides actually agreed, I understand, that he didn't intend to kill Neely. The jurors were all regular subway riders where safety, of course, is never far mind. How did that factor into the trial?
Samantha Max (03:02):
The subway really was central to this whole case. During jury selection, everyone was asked how often they ride the subway. So the people who were deciding this verdict were also regular subway riders. And throughout the trial, we heard from many different people who were on the subway that day, many who had been riding the subway for years or even decades often many, many times a week and they were saying that they had witnessed outbursts before but that there was something that was different about this one. There were several people who were really, genuinely afraid and who said that they were relieved when Penny held Neely in a chokehold. And then there were others who, especially those who once the train pulled into the station and watched Penny continue to hold Neely for about six minutes, that they felt uncomfortable with how long he was holding on. And those were the people who tried to intervene unsuccessfully.
Stephanie Sy (03:58):
Penny is a former Marine who happens to be white. Neely was a homeless black man with a history of mental health hospitalization and a traumatic childhood. Samantha, how did the histories and identities of these two men add to the weightiness of this trial and the ways in which it was politicized nationally?
Samantha Max (04:22):
I mean, I think it just really added a lot of layers. On Neely's side, this was coming at a time when there was a huge debate already happening in the city about mental illness and homelessness, especially after the pandemic. And so many people who are struggling with mental illness or who are unhoused have really been in the subway system very visibly. And then on the other hand, you have Daniel Penny who's a former Marine, and he really went into the spotlight in his own way. There was a legal defense fund that was set up that garnered more than $3 million in donations. You had big conservative names like Vivek Ramaswamy joining into his defense, and also both of his defense attorneys are former military. So it really became just this very political case on both sides.
Stephanie Sy (05:17):
Following up on that, Samantha, after the verdict was read, there were reportedly some cheers in the courtroom and there had been some anger when Daniel Penny was charged. Is there a sense of vindication among his supporters? And on the flip side, for Penny's critics who said it was vigilante as a run amok, is there concern that this verdict leads to more of that kind of thing?
Samantha Max (05:39):
I think that is the unpredictable question. We actually just were speaking with Penny's defense attorney who was saying that this is a huge relief for his client and that he thinks that his client was a hero and that he acted with justification. We have had other instances of self-defense in New York City, some famous cases on the subway. Some people might think of the name Bernie Goetz. There was also shortly after Jordan Neely was killed, there was another person who was involved in an incident and stabbed someone to death on the subway and was not charged because pretty quickly prosecutors felt that he was justified. So I think if these things come up in the future, prosecutors will always be evaluating on a case-by-case basis. But I do think it sends a message to people who were perhaps concerned about what could happen when you step in that perhaps this will make them feel more empowered to do so, for better or for worse.
Stephanie Sy (06:43):
Samantha Max with WNYC, thank you so much for your reporting and for joining us.
Samantha Max (06:49):
Thank you.