Billy Grant (00:00):
... Garcia. October 22, 2025 letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. November 3, 2025, letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia. November 21, 2025, letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. December 10, 2025, letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia. December 15, 2025, letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 3, 2026, letter from David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer and Ranking Member Garcia. January 8, 2026, letter from Chairman Comer to David E. Kendall. January 12, 2026, letter from Ashley Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 13, 2026, letter from President William J. Clinton and Secretary Hillary R. Clinton to Chairman Comer, encompassing attached declarations under the penalty of perjury of both President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. January 20, 2026, letter from Ashley Callen and David E. Kendall to Chairman Comer. January 31, 2026 letter from Ashley Callen and Catherine M. Turner to Chairman Comer. And February 2, 2026, letter from Chairman Comer to Ashley Callen and Catherine M. Turner.
(01:25)
The Committee originally noticed the deposition on December 12, 2025 for Secretary Clinton to appear before the committee on December 18, 2025. I will mark that notice as Exhibit 3. I will mark as Exhibit 4 the postponed notice date, December 16, 2025 for a deposition of Secretary Clinton to occur on January 14, 2026. Secretary Clinton did not appear for her deposition on January 14, 2026. I will enter as Exhibit 5 the transcript for the deposition for which Secretary Clinton failed to appear. The Committee noticed a committee business meeting on January 14, 2026 to consider the contempt report for Secretary Hillary R. Clinton to be held on January 21st, 2026. I will mark that notice as Exhibit 6.
(02:20)
I will mark as Exhibit 7 the contempt report for Secretary Hillary R. Clinton voted favorably out of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. I will mark as Exhibit 8, the final roll call vote sheet on favorably reporting the contempt report of Secretary Hillary R. Clinton out of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The committee noticed today's deposition on February 19, 2026. I will enter the notice for this deposition as Exhibit 9. I will enter as Exhibit 10 an email thread between Committee on Oversight and Government Reform staff and counsel for President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. The email thread confirms the date, time and location among other terms of today's deposition. Additionally, this email thread clearly states the agreed upon terms, including but not limited to video recording, no predetermined time limit and scope.
(03:19)
Can the witness please state her name for the record?
Secretary Clinton (03:22):
Hillary Rodam Clinton.
Billy Grant (03:24):
Thank you. My name is Billy Grant. I am the Deputy Chief Counsel for investigations for Chairman James Comer. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reforms rules, you are allowed to have counsel present to advise you during this deposition. Do you have counsel representing you in a personal capacity present with you today?
Secretary Clinton (03:43):
I do.
Billy Grant (03:45):
Will all counsel please identify themselves for the record?
David Kendall (03:48):
David Kendall, Williams & Connolly LLP.
Katherine Turner (03:52):
Katherine Turner, Williams & Connolly LLP.
Cheryl Mills (03:54):
Cheryl Mells, counsel to the Secretary.
Billy Grant (03:57):
Thank you. For the record, starting with the majority staff, can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name, title, and affiliation?
Jack Emmer (04:07):
Jack Emmer, chief counsel for Investigations for Chairman Comer.
Peter Spector (04:11):
Peter Spector, deputy director of Oversight for Chairman Comer.
Daniel Ashworth (04:14):
Daniel Ashworth, general counsel for Chairman Comer.
Ryan Gichetti (04:17):
Ryan Gichetti, chief counsel for Chairman Comer.
Will Harness (04:20):
Will Harness, professional staff member, Chairman Comer.
Emily Fireoven (04:24):
Emily Fireoven, counsel for Chairman Coleman.
Melvin Soto (04:27):
Melvin Soto, digital director for Chairman Comer.
Allison Tolman (04:29):
Allison Tolman, counsel, Chairman Comer.
Hannah Kathy (04:32):
Hannah Kathy, professional staff member Chairman Comer.
Katherine Turner (04:36):
Professional staff member?
Hannah Kathy (04:37):
Chairman Comer.
Katherine Turner (04:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Could you have used a microphone?
Mark (04:41):
Mark William. staff director, Chairman Comer.
Austin Hacker (04:41):
Austin Hacker-
Katherine Turner (04:46):
I'm sorry. I cannot hear you over there. Could you please repeat your name?
Austin Hacker (04:49):
Austin Hacker [inaudible 00:04:50]-
Katherine Turner (04:50):
No, this gentleman here in the black.
Mark Morin (04:52):
Mark Morin.
Katherine Turner (04:53):
Thank you.
Mark Morin (04:53):
Staff director, Chairman Comer.
Katherine Turner (04:55):
And the next one.
Justine Collins (04:57):
Justine Collins, communications director for the [inaudible 00:05:01]-
Mallory Kovars (05:01):
Mallory Kovars, chief clerk and director of operations, Chairman Comer.
Ashley Binier (05:05):
Ashley Binier, the deputy staff director for Chamber Comer.
Billy Grant (05:12):
Would the majority members please announce themselves for the record?
Congresswoman Nancy Mace (05:15):
Congresswoman Nancy Mace, South Carolina.
Congressman Eric Burlison (05:18):
Congressman Eric Burlison, Southwest Missouri.
Michael Cloud (05:21):
Michael Cloud, 27th District of Texas.
Lauren Boebert (05:25):
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Sports District.
Anna Paulina Luna (05:27):
Rep Anna Paulina Luna, Florida 13.
William Timmons (05:30):
William Timmons, South Carolina Fourth Congressional District.
John McGuire (05:32):
Rep John McGuire, Virginia Fifth District.
Billy Grant (05:36):
Will the minority staff please identify themselves for the record? Would the minority members please announce themselves for the record?
Ranking Member Robert Garcia (05:47):
Ranking Member Robert Garcia.
Representative Steve (05:51):
Representative Steve [inaudible 00:05:53], Virginia.
James Walkinshaw (05:54):
I'm James Walkinshaw, Virginia 11.
Yassamin Ansari (05:56):
Representative Yassamin Ansari, Arizona's 3rd District.
Billy Grant (06:01):
And Chairman?
Chairman Comer (06:02):
I'm James Comer, chairman of the Committee from Kentucky.
Billy Grant (06:08):
Thank you all. Secretary Clinton, before we begin, I would like to go over the ground rules for this deposition. The questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions for an hour, and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for an hour if they choose. To the extent members have questions for the witness, they will be propounded during their side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need to confer with counsel, your counsel is speaking, and when members or staff are speaking during the opposing side's round of questions, we will alternate back and forth until there are no more questions.
(06:41)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (06:41):
I do.
Billy Grant (06:43):
There is a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written record of the deposition. For the record to be clear, please wait until the staff are questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer, and the staffer will wait until you finish a response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to ensure the court reporter can properly record this deposition, please speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter cannot record nonverbal answers such as nodding or shaking your head, so it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal answer.
(07:17)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (07:17):
I do.
Billy Grant (07:21):
Exhibits may be entered into the record. Majority exhibits will be identified numerically. Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically. Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (07:29):
I do.
Billy Grant (07:31):
We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we'll take our time. If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question, please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add context to, or rephrase our questions. If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or details, you should testify to the substance of those conversations or events to the best of your recollection. If you recall only a part of a conversation or event, you should give us your best recollection of those events or parts of conversations that you do recall.
(08:06)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (08:07):
I do.
Billy Grant (08:08):
You are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this deposition.
(08:16)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (08:17):
I do.
Billy Grant (08:18):
If at any time you knowingly make false statements, you could be subject to criminal prosecution, including but not limited to perjury.
(08:25)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (08:26):
I do.
Billy Grant (08:27):
This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but also stating that you do not recall or remember something when in fact you do.
(08:34)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (08:35):
I do.
Billy Grant (08:37):
Furthermore, you cannot tell half truth or exclude information necessary to make statements accurate. Excuse me. You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (08:55):
I do.
Billy Grant (08:57):
Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today's interview?
Secretary Clinton (09:01):
No.
Billy Grant (09:03):
Please note that if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today, that assertion must comply with the rules of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. Pursuant to that, Committee Rule 16C1 states, "For the chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements, witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance. For the purposes of the deposition, objections must be stated concisely and in a non-argumentative and non-suggestive manner. If the witness refuses to answer a question to preserve a privilege, the committee may seek a ruling from the chair. If the chair overrules any such objection, the witness shall be ordered to answer. If the witness continues to refuse to answer a question, despite being ordered to do so, the witness may be subject to sanction.
(09:55)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (09:58):
Insofar as I understand the rules of privilege, I don't have any specific knowledge of your committee's ideas of privilege.
Billy Grant (10:06):
Understood. Ordinarily, we take a five-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning, but if you need a longer break or a break before that, please let us know and we'll be happy to accommodate. However, to the extent that there is a pending question, we would ask that you finish answering the question before we take a break.
(10:23)
Do you understand?
Secretary Clinton (10:23):
Yes.
Billy Grant (10:26):
Finally, I will note for everyone here today that the contents of what we discuss in the deposition is confidential under the House Deposition Regulation. Under the rules, the chairman and ranking minority members shall consult before any release of testimony or transcripts, including portions thereof. This means it is a violation of House and committee rules to disclose content of the deposition prior to its official release. For this reason, the marked exhibits that we will use today will remain with the court reporter so that they can go into the official transcript, and any copies of those exhibits will be kept at the table or returned to us when we wrap up.
(11:02)
Can the court reporter please swear in the witness?
Court Reporter (11:06):
Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this deposition will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Secretary Clinton (11:14):
I do.
Court Reporter (11:14):
Okay.
Billy Grant (11:16):
Do you have any other questions before we begin?
Secretary Clinton (11:19):
Yes. I have an opening statement that I would like to deliver before we begin.
(11:24)
Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the committee, as a former United States senator, I have respect for legislative oversight and I expect its exercise, as do the American people, to be principled and fearless in pursuit of truth and accountability.
(11:43)
As we all know, however, too often congressional investigations are partisan political theater, which is an abdication of duty and an insult to the American people. This committee justified its subpoena to me based on its assumption that I have information regarding the investigations into the criminal activities of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Let me be as clear as I can, I do not. As I stated in my sworn declaration on January 13th, I had no idea about their criminal activities. I do not recall ever encountering Mr. Epstein. I never flew on his plane or visited his island, homes, or offices. I have nothing to add to that.
(12:32)
Like every decent person, I've been horrified by what we have learned about their crimes. It's unfathomable that Mr. Epstein initially got a slap on the wrist in 2008, which allowed him to continue his predatory practices for another decade. Mr. Chairman, your investigation is supposed to be assessing the federal government's handling of the investigations and prosecutions of Epstein and his crimes. You subpoenaed eight law enforcement officials, all of whom ran the Department of Justice or directed the FBI when Epstein's crimes were investigated and prosecuted. Of those eight, only one appeared before the committee. Five of the six former attorneys general were allowed to submit brief statements stating they had no information to provide. You have held zero public hearings, refused to allow the media to attend them, including today, despite espousing the need for transparency on dozens of occasions. You have made little effort to call the people who show up most prominently in the Epstein files. And when you did, not a single Republican member showed up for Les Wexner's deposition.
(13:54)
This institutional failure is designed to protect one political party and one public official, rather than to seek truth and justice for the victims and survivors, as well as inform the public who want to get to the bottom of this matter. My heart breaks for the survivors, and I am furious on their behalf. I have spent my life advocating for women and girls. I have worked hard to stop the terrible abuses so many women and girls face here and around the world, including human trafficking, forced labor, domestic violence, and sexual slavery. For too long, these have been largely invisible crimes or not treated as crimes at all, but the survivors are real and they are entitled to justice.
(14:45)
In Southeast Asia, I met girls as young as 12 years old who had been forced into prostitution and raped repeatedly. Some were dying of AIDS. In Eastern Europe, I met mothers who told me how they lost their daughters to trafficking and did not know where to turn. In settings around the world, I met survivors trying to rebuild their lives and help rescue others with little support from people in power who too often turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder. If you are new to this issue, let me tell you, Jeffrey Epstein was a heinous individual, but he's far from alone. This is not a one-off tabloid sensation or political scandal. It is a global scourge with an unimaginable human toll.
(15:35)
My work combating sex trafficking goes back to my days as First Lady. I worked to pass the first federal legislation against trafficking and was proud that my husband signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which increased support for survivors and gave prosecutors better tools for going after traffickers. As Secretary of State, I appointed a former federal prosecutor, Luis deBaca, to ramp up our global anti-trafficking efforts. I oversaw nearly 170 anti-trafficking programs in 70 nations and directly pressed foreign leaders to crack down on trafficking networks in their countries. Every year, we published a global report to shine a light on abuses. The findings of those reports triggered sanctions on countries failing to make progress, so they became a powerful diplomatic tool to drive concrete action.
(16:35)
I insisted that the United States be included in the report for the first time ever in 2011, because we must hold ourselves not just to the same standard as the rest of the world, but to an even higher one. Sex trafficking and modern slavery should have no place in America. None. Infuriatingly, the Trump administration gutted the trafficking and person's office at the State Department, cutting more than 70% of the career, civil, and foreign service experts who worked so hard to prevent trafficking crimes. The annual trafficking report required by law was delayed for months. The message from the Trump administration to the American people and the world could not be clearer. Combating human trafficking is no longer an American priority under the Trump White House. That's a tragedy, it's a scandal, and it deserves vigorous investigation and oversight.
(17:38)
A committee endeavoring to stopping human trafficking would seek to understand what specific steps are needed to fix a legal system that allowed Epstein to get away with his crimes. A committee run by elected officials with a commitment to transparency would ensure the full release of all the files. It would ensure that the lawful redactions of those files protected the victims and survivors, not powerful men and political allies. It would get to the bottom of reports that DOJ withheld FBI interviews in which a survivor accuses President Trump of crimes. It would subpoena anyone who asked on which night there would be the wildest party on Epstein's Island.
(18:31)
It would demand testimony from prosecutors from Florida, New York, and the Department of Justice about why they gave Epstein a sweetheart deal and chose not to pursue others who may have been implicated in his crimes. And it would demand that Secretary Rubio and Attorney General Bondi testify about why this administration is abandoning survivors and playing into the hands of traffickers. It would seek out advocates and law enforcement officials on the front lines of the fight against human trafficking and ask them what support they need, and it would put forth legislation to provide more resources and force this administration to act.
(19:17)
But that's not happening. Instead, you have compelled me to testify fully aware that I have no knowledge that would assist your investigation in order to distract from President Trump's actions and to cover them up despite legitimate calls for answers. If this committee is serious about learning the truth about Epstein's trafficking crimes, it would not rely on press gaggles to get answers from our current president on his involvement. It would ask him directly under oath about the tens of thousands of times he shows up in the Epstein files. If the majority was serious, it would not waste time on fishing expeditions. There is too much to be done. What is being held back? Who is being protected? And why? The coverup.
(20:07)
So my challenge to you, Mr. Chairman and members of this committee is the same challenge I put to myself throughout my long service to this nation. How to be worthy of the trust of the American people that they have given to you. They expect statesmanship, not gamesmanship, leading, not grandstanding, and they expect you to use your power to get to the truth and to do more to help survivors of Epstein's crimes, as well as the millions more who are victims of sex trafficking in this country and around the world. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
(20:46)
And I would also like to request that the video of this deposition be made available within 24 hours as it has been for other witnesses.
Billy Grant (20:58):
Thank you, Madam Secretary. The time reads 11:34 AM. The majority's time will begin now. Madam Secretary, in the interest of efficiency here today, I'm going to ask you one question followed by a list of names. The question can be answered yes or no. If you do indicate yes to any individual, I will come back and revisit that at the end. The question is, have you ever communicated with any of the following people relating to Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell, Richard Kahn?
Secretary Clinton (21:35):
No.
Billy Grant (21:38):
Darren Indyke?
Secretary Clinton (21:40):
No.
Billy Grant (21:42):
Sarah Kellen?
Secretary Clinton (21:44):
No.
Billy Grant (21:47):
Doug Band?
Secretary Clinton (21:49):
Not that I recall.
Billy Grant (21:54):
Lawrence Summers?
Secretary Clinton (21:57):
No.
Billy Grant (21:59):
Huma Abedin?
Secretary Clinton (22:02):
Have I ever talked to her about this? In preparation for this hearing, I have.
Billy Grant (22:06):
Outside of that?
Secretary Clinton (22:07):
Not that I recall.
Billy Grant (22:07):
Noam Chomsky?
Secretary Clinton (22:14):
No.
Billy Grant (22:18):
Lesley Groff?
Secretary Clinton (22:19):
No.
Billy Grant (22:19):
Nadia Marcinko?
Secretary Clinton (22:19):
No.
Billy Grant (22:27):
Jean-Luc Brunel?
Secretary Clinton (22:29):
No. I don't know most of these people. Should I tell you that I know who they are or just tell you I never talked to them?
Billy Grant (22:36):
Just so you never talk to them is fine. Alan Dershowitz?
Secretary Clinton (22:40):
No.
Billy Grant (22:42):
Kathy Ruemmler?
Secretary Clinton (22:43):
No.
Billy Grant (22:46):
Bill Richardson?
Secretary Clinton (22:48):
No.
Billy Grant (22:51):
George Mitchell?
Secretary Clinton (22:53):
No.
Billy Grant (22:56):
Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, formerly Prince Andrew?
Secretary Clinton (22:59):
No.
Billy Grant (23:03):
Peter Mandelson?
Secretary Clinton (23:04):
No.
Billy Grant (23:08):
Reid Hoffman?
Secretary Clinton (23:09):
No.
Billy Grant (23:10):
Karyna Shuliak?
Secretary Clinton (23:14):
No.
Billy Grant (23:17):
Bill Gates?
Secretary Clinton (23:19):
No.
Billy Grant (23:22):
Ehud Barak?
Secretary Clinton (23:23):
No.
Billy Grant (23:26):
Woody Allen?
Secretary Clinton (23:27):
No.
Billy Grant (23:30):
Sandy Berger?
Secretary Clinton (23:31):
No.
Billy Grant (23:33):
Jes Staley?
Secretary Clinton (23:35):
No.
Billy Grant (23:40):
Paul Morris?
Secretary Clinton (23:41):
No.
Billy Grant (23:44):
Leon Black?
Secretary Clinton (23:45):
No.
Billy Grant (23:48):
Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem?
Secretary Clinton (23:50):
No.
Billy Grant (23:55):
Leslie Wexner?
Secretary Clinton (23:56):
No.
Billy Grant (24:00):
Jack Kessler?
Secretary Clinton (24:01):
No.
Billy Grant (24:04):
Mark Middleton?
Secretary Clinton (24:05):
No.
Billy Grant (24:08):
Harvey Weinstein?
Secretary Clinton (24:10):
No.
Billy Grant (24:13):
Élie de Rothschild?
Secretary Clinton (24:16):
No.
Billy Grant (24:19):
Ariane de Rothschild?
Secretary Clinton (24:20):
No.
Billy Grant (24:24):
Lynn Forester de Rothschild?
Secretary Clinton (24:26):
No.
Billy Grant (24:28):
Any other members of the de Rothschild family?
Secretary Clinton (24:33):
No.
Billy Grant (24:36):
Glenn Dubin?
Secretary Clinton (24:38):
No.
Billy Grant (24:42):
Eva Anderson Dubin?
Secretary Clinton (24:43):
No.
Billy Grant (24:48):
Casey Wasserman?
Secretary Clinton (24:49):
No.
Billy Grant (24:53):
Larry Vasoki?
Secretary Clinton (24:55):
No.
Billy Grant (24:59):
David Rogers?
Secretary Clinton (25:01):
No.
Billy Grant (25:04):
Ira Magaziner?
Secretary Clinton (25:05):
No.
Billy Grant (25:09):
Daniel Gilbert?
Secretary Clinton (25:11):
No.
Billy Grant (25:14):
Karen Ewing?
Secretary Clinton (25:15):
No.
Billy Grant (25:18):
Stacey Plaskett ?
Secretary Clinton (25:20):
Not that I recall.
Billy Grant (25:26):
Howard Lutnick?
Secretary Clinton (25:28):
No, not that I recall.
Billy Grant (25:34):
Steve Bannon.
Secretary Clinton (25:37):
I don't know if I've ever met him. You all have to introduce me.
Billy Grant (25:41):
I take that as a no.
Secretary Clinton (25:44):
Just to be absolutely clear, you've asked if I've ever communicated about Jeffrey Epstein, a man I never met, with any of these people, most of whom I've never heard of and certainly not met. That's the premise of your question?
Billy Grant (25:55):
Mr. Epstein or Mrs. Maxwell.
Secretary Clinton (25:57):
You did not say that.
Billy Grant (25:58):
I did say that in the beginning. I will repeat the question.
Secretary Clinton (26:00):
No, that's okay. But I didn't talk about her with any of these people either.
Billy Grant (26:03):
Understood.
Secretary Clinton (26:03):
I barely knew her.
Billy Grant (26:06):
David Gergen.
Secretary Clinton (26:08):
No.
Billy Grant (26:11):
Elon Musk?
Secretary Clinton (26:13):
No.
Billy Grant (26:15):
Abigail Johnson?
Secretary Clinton (26:17):
No.
Billy Grant (26:20):
Jeff Bezos?
Secretary Clinton (26:21):
No.
Billy Grant (26:24):
Larry Page?
Secretary Clinton (26:26):
No.
Billy Grant (26:28):
Sergey Brin?
Secretary Clinton (26:29):
No.
Billy Grant (26:33):
Louis Freeh?
Secretary Clinton (26:35):
No.
Billy Grant (26:43):
A new member arrived. Would they please introduce themselves for the record?
Wesley Bell (26:49):
Wesley Bell, representative, Missouri First Integration District.
Billy Grant (26:53):
Thank you, sir.
Katherine Turner (26:54):
[inaudible 00:26:55] Could you read back the initial premise of your question because I too did not hear?
Billy Grant (26:58):
Yes, ma'am. Have you ever communicated with any of the following people relating to Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (27:05):
I didn't hear the Maxwell piece, but we could ask court reporter. It doesn't matter. It's the same answer, but I did not hear the Maxwell name in there.
Billy Grant (27:12):
Understood.
Katherine Turner (27:22):
So was the last name you said Larry Page?
Chairman Comer (27:27):
Sergey Brin.
Billy Grant (27:37):
The last name I stated was Louis Freeh, you indicated no, is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (27:42):
I think you mean Freeh?
Billy Grant (27:44):
Freeh, yes, ma'am.
Katherine Turner (27:44):
Louis Freeh.
Secretary Clinton (27:44):
No. No.
Billy Grant (27:47):
And Sarah Kay?
Secretary Clinton (27:49):
No. And these are all to the best of my recollection. As I say, many of these people I've never heard of. Most of these people I've never had a relationship with, although I know their name. Some of them are deceased. But I was not communicating about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. As I understand what you're asking me, contacting people about them, that did not happen.
Billy Grant (28:21):
Is there anyone that you had a conversation with about Ghislaine Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (28:25):
Oh, I'm sure I've talked about Ghislaine Maxwell, and especially in preparation for this hearing.
Billy Grant (28:34):
And outside of conversations with your counsel, what did you talk about about Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (28:42):
I don't recall any conversations about Ms. Maxwell, but I knew her casually, so I can't tell you that I never had a conversation that mentioned Ghislaine Maxwell's name because I don't recall that.
Billy Grant (28:54):
Understood. And you say that you knew Ms. Maxwell casually. What does that mean?
Secretary Clinton (29:02):
Just what I said. I knew her primarily as someone who dated, someone that I knew.
Billy Grant (29:07):
And who was that individual?
Secretary Clinton (29:13):
Ted Waitt.
Billy Grant (29:13):
And who is Ted Waitt?
Secretary Clinton (29:14):
Ted Waitt was a successful, as I recall, software developer.
Billy Grant (29:26):
And roughly when would the first time Ms. Maxwell would have come up in relation to Mr. Waitt?
Secretary Clinton (29:37):
I don't recall, but perhaps sometime around 2010, because he was invited to my daughter's wedding and she was his guest.
Billy Grant (29:54):
Have you ever spoken with Ms. Maxwell personally yourself?
Secretary Clinton (29:58):
I'm sure I have, yes.
Billy Grant (30:01):
Could you estimate on how many occasions?
Secretary Clinton (30:04):
Not many. I didn't see her very often.
Billy Grant (30:20):
When would the first occasion have been?
Secretary Clinton (30:23):
I have no recollection.
Billy Grant (30:39):
Did your first interaction with Ms. Maxwell occur while President Clinton was president of the United States and you were First Lady of the United States?
Secretary Clinton (30:47):
No, I do not recall ever meeting her while Bill was still in the White House.
Billy Grant (30:58):
Did Mr. Waitt ever inform you what Ms. Maxwell did for a living?
Secretary Clinton (31:02):
Not that I recall.
Billy Grant (31:08):
Did anyone ever indicate to you what Ms. Maxwell did for a living?
Secretary Clinton (31:13):
Not that I recall.
Billy Grant (31:26):
When would the last time have been that you either communicated with Ms. Maxwell, even if not directly yourself, but been around Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (31:37):
The best of my recollection is at the wedding in 2010.
Billy Grant (31:49):
Would you consider Ms. Maxwell a friend?
Secretary Clinton (31:51):
No.
Billy Grant (31:54):
Would you consider her a friend of President Clinton?
Secretary Clinton (31:57):
He'll have to answer that.
Billy Grant (32:07):
Would you consider Ms. Maxwell a friend of your daughter?
Secretary Clinton (32:11):
She probably was friendlier with her than I was because I didn't see her very often.
Billy Grant (32:25):
How often would your daughter have seen Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (32:28):
I have no idea. But again, it was in the context of her being in a relationship with Ted Waitt.
Billy Grant (32:45):
Anyone else in your family have a relationship of some kind with Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (32:49):
Well, that's my family. You asked about Bill and Chelsea.
Billy Grant (33:03):
And just to make clear for the record, have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (33:10):
I do not recall ever meeting Jeffrey Epstein. In preparation for this hearing, I was told that he attended an event at the White House that was put on by the White House Historical Association, but I have no recollection of that.
Billy Grant (33:37):
And only that one time at the White House Historical Association?
Secretary Clinton (33:42):
That's the only time that I'm aware of that I might have possibly been in the same room with him.
Billy Grant (33:48):
Did you have an initial impression of Mr. Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (33:51):
I have no recollection of Mr. Epstein. I'm just told that he was in a room at a dinner that we were hosting for the White House Historical Association.
Billy Grant (34:01):
What was your understanding of what Mr. Epstein did for work?
Secretary Clinton (34:05):
I knew nothing about him. He was there as an invited guest by the White House Historical Association. That's my best recollection.
Billy Grant (34:14):
And no one else informed you of what Mr. Epstein did for work?
Secretary Clinton (34:18):
No, but we had hundreds and thousands of people who came to the White House. I was not informed of what people did or didn't do for work, especially someone that I never even had a conversation with.
Billy Grant (34:30):
Do you know who invited Mr. Epstein to the White House?
Secretary Clinton (34:35):
I can only tell you what I know, which is that he apparently was a guest invited by the White House Historical Association to attend a dinner to thank people who gave money to the White House Historical Association for the upkeep and maintenance of the White House. That's what I was informed of in preparation for coming here.
Billy Grant (34:56):
Yes, ma'am. And understanding we focused the last few questions on your time in the White House with President Clinton, after that time period of President Clinton's administration, did anyone ever tell you what Mr. Epstein did for a living?
Secretary Clinton (35:15):
I don't recall ever talking about Mr. Epstein. He was not on my radar. He was not somebody that I had any connection to.
Billy Grant (35:29):
When President Clinton was traveling with Mr. Epstein on Clinton Foundation business, no one associated with the foundation at that time discussed Mr. Epstein with you?
Secretary Clinton (35:43):
Not that I recall. I was not involved with the foundation. I was a senator from New York and I was deeply committed to my work and it became one of the most intense experiences of my life when we were attacked on 9-11. I was not involved with what was happening to create the foundation, to create the work that was done to get low cost drugs for AIDS. I knew about the work. I didn't know about the details.
Billy Grant (36:13):
Understood. And to be clear, you never had any communication yourself with Mr. Epstein, whether that be face-to-face interaction, phone calls, emails, text messages?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Asked and answered. You can answer it again.
Secretary Clinton (36:28):
I have no recollection in any way of ever having any conversation at the White House or in any other place or on any kind of device of any sort. I knew nothing about him.
Billy Grant (36:45):
And when did you learn of Mr. Epstein's 2006 indictment and subsequent arrest leading to his incarceration in 2008?
Secretary Clinton (36:58):
I have no idea. I was not paying attention. I was running for reelection in 2006. I ran for president in 2007, 2008. I don't know that I ever learned about it until much later when more things came out about him.
Billy Grant (37:15):
Understood. And when did you first learn of Mr. Epstein's arrest in 2019?
Secretary Clinton (37:22):
Probably when it happened because it was headline news. I'm sure I, like everybody else, saw it in the press.
Billy Grant (37:29):
And in seeing that in the press, did you discuss Mr. Epstein or his case at the time with anyone?
Secretary Clinton (37:35):
I'm sure we did because it was a big story.
Billy Grant (37:41):
And Mr. Epstein died in custody following his 2019 arrest. When would you have learned of his death?
Secretary Clinton (37:50):
Whenever it was reported.
Billy Grant (38:04):
Going back slightly a question, you said you likely would've talked to someone regarding his arrest in 2019. Who would you have discussed that with?
Secretary Clinton (38:13):
Whoever was around. I mean, it was a big story, as you recall. It was a very big story. I don't have any specific recollections. It wasn't something that I was particularly focused on, but it was a big story.
Billy Grant (38:31):
And going back to Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell, when did you learn of her arrest in 2021?
Secretary Clinton (38:44):
Again, whenever it was reported as happening.
Billy Grant (38:50):
And did you discuss that with anyone?
Secretary Clinton (38:52):
I'm sure I did. It was another big story.
Billy Grant (39:01):
And who would those discussions have been with?
Secretary Clinton (39:04):
I don't have any specific recollection.
Billy Grant (39:18):
So moving forward in time just a little bit, you were Secretary of State under President Obama; is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (39:25):
Yes, it is.
Billy Grant (39:26):
And it was during his first term, 2009 to 2013?
Secretary Clinton (39:30):
That's correct.
Billy Grant (39:32):
And after you completed your time as Secretary of State, did you return in any role to the Clinton Foundation?
Secretary Clinton (39:41):
I did. I became active in it at that point.
Billy Grant (39:45):
And by being active in it, could you describe that for us, please?
Secretary Clinton (39:50):
Tried to support the work that Bill and my daughter and the team had done and look for ways to be helpful. It was something that I wanted to make sure I could support.
Billy Grant (40:08):
And please correct me if I'm wrong, you rejoined as a board member; is that right?
Secretary Clinton (40:16):
That might have been the first time I was a board member. I don't remember. Either the first or the second time. Yeah.
Billy Grant (40:22):
And speaking of... It sounds like you were heavily involved when you returned to the foundation or I guess started with the foundation at this point. In trying to accomplish those goals and initiatives, what were you doing, broadly speaking, on a daily basis, monthly basis, that sort of thing?
Secretary Clinton (40:43):
Well, I wanted to start a program about early learning for kids. And so, we started something called Too Small to Fail, which I was very actively involved in with my daughter. And we worked with pediatricians and other people to help parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles read, talk, and sing to their children so that they could help build brain cells. That was a major priority of mine. And I'm very proud of what we've built and the difference that it's made in millions of kids' lives. I certainly did what I could to support the work that we do overseas through the Clinton Global Initiative, which has had a terrific track record of bringing people together to work in partnerships, to make commitments, to try to improve everything from clean water, to solar energy, to improved education, all of the priorities that the partners we have bring to us that we try to help them with.
Billy Grant (41:58):
And thank you for that, Madam Secretary. We've had a few members join us. Would you guys please announce yourselves for the record?
Pat Fallon (42:06):
Yes. Pat Fallon, 4th District of Texas.
Scott Perry (42:09):
Scott Perry, 10th District of Pennsylvania.
Billy Grant (42:11):
Thank you both.
Ms. Mace (42:13):
Do you get the last? I'm sorry.
Billy Grant (42:15):
Mr. Perry, Scott Perry.
Ms. Mace (42:16):
Thank you so much.
Billy Grant (42:22):
And Madam Secretary, as a board member, what type of responsibilities does that entail?
Secretary Clinton (42:32):
Oh, attending the board meetings, approving the agenda of work for the year, the budget that goes with it, that kind of responsibility.
Billy Grant (42:44):
And you mentioned the Clinton Global Initiative. Just for clarity, I will likely refer to that as CGI as we go forward with this. CGI is a part of the Clinton Foundation; is that accurate?
Secretary Clinton (42:59):
Yes.
Billy Grant (43:00):
And what was your role with CGI at this time period right after you left being Secretary of State?
Secretary Clinton (43:10):
It was, again, to support the staff that put together both the annual meeting, but also worked during the year with our partners who'd made commitments to help them fulfill their commitments. So if there were a meeting about a commitment that was made to get clean water to some very remote place, if there were a meeting, I might be invited to it to meet with the partners to encourage them. It was mostly around the work that happens throughout the year in preparation for the annual meeting.
Billy Grant (43:48):
And forgive my ignorance, please. What happens at those annual meetings?
Secretary Clinton (43:54):
The annual meetings are a way for people to come together to make commitments that they have previewed with our staff. So, I'll give you an example. Probably around, oh, I don't know, somewhere between 12 and 15 years ago, I don't know specifically, Matt Damon, the actor, came to the Clinton Global Initiative because he said he really cared about clean water and could we connect him with people that he could work with to get more clean water in more places in the world? So we did. We connected him to this gentleman who was a real expert on clean water. They started working together. They created something called water.org, which was a Clinton Global Initiative commitment that was made at the annual meeting. And then, our staff worked with them. And I think it's fair to say that they've been one of the most successful organizations in actually delivering clean water. But it's that kind of work. It's people who might have a good idea, maybe they've got some resources, maybe they have some experience. I'll give you another idea.
(45:05)
So Procter & Gamble called us and said, "One of our scientists, one of our chemists in the UK has created this packet of chemicals that can literally make the dirtiest water clean enough to drink, but we don't know what to do with it because we're a consumer company that sells products to middle class people. This is something that would go to the very poor, what do we do with it if we come to CGI? Can you connect us with somebody who can help us?" So we connected them with World Vision and I think maybe one or two other organizations. And so, they used the packets to literally go around the world cleaning water. And Bill went with them, Chelsea went with them ,and they would go to rural Myanmar or rural Kenya and they would take this bucket of dirty water and they'd dump the packet in.
(46:02)
And then my daughter and my husband would drink it to show that it was clean. And that was a CGI commitment. We bring together governments, local, state, national, businesses, philanthropies, NGOs, academics, anybody who has a good idea that we can help them work on and try to fulfill. That's what we do.
Billy Grant (46:25):
And, thank you. The Clinton Foundation started shortly thereafter your husband, President Clinton, left office; is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (46:37):
That's correct.
Billy Grant (46:41):
And CGI started a few years later; is that right?
Secretary Clinton (46:48):
I think that's right. I think it started maybe 2005, maybe. I'm not sure.
Billy Grant (46:56):
And does CGI or the foundation more broadly perform any work in sex trafficking or human trafficking around the world?
Secretary Clinton (47:08):
There may be partners who make commitments about that. We have thousands and thousands of commitments, so I can't answer yes or no, but it might be an area that some of our commitment makers would be focused on.
Billy Grant (47:23):
And how did the foundation, the Clinton Foundation, how did that idea come to fruition? Was that your idea, President Clinton's idea?
Secretary Clinton (47:36):
Oh, no. The Clinton Foundation was all Bill's idea. He set it up as he was leaving the White House. It was the entity that raised the money to build the Clinton Presidential Center and then to carry on the work that he wanted to do. Shortly after he got out of the White House, he and Nelson Mandela were asked to come to the annual AIDS Conference to see whether the two of them could do something that needed to be done, which was to try to stem the epidemic of HIV/AIDS. And so Bill started out trying to figure out how to deal with this problem and came to the conclusion that the best way would be to lower the price of the drugs that were being used in the United States, but were too expensive to be used around the world in order to treat more people.
(48:31)
And I really give huge credit to both Bill's idea about how to do that, but also huge credit to President George W. Bush because when President Bush took Bill to Pope John Paul's funeral in Rome, he and Bill were talking because President Bush was coming forward with the PEPFAR program. And so, he and Bill were talking and President Bush was very committed to this and Bill was very committed. And so, Bill said to President Bush, "I now have generic drugs being made in places like India that are much cheaper than the brand name drugs. And you could, with tax money, treat many more people." And so, President Bush, to his credit, said, "Yeah, but my folks tell me that the drugs aren't as good as ours." And Bill said, "I'll give them to you. You give them to the FDA, you test them, and I'll abide by your test." I think you can ask him if you want tomorrow, but I think he gave, I don't know, like, 24 drugs and the FDA approved 22 and President Bush was as good as his word.
(49:41)
And so we began as the United States and the Clinton Foundation, because of that connection and that partnership, we began treating millions of people with low cost drugs, with federal PEPFAR money saving millions of lives. Sadly, that's going to be reversed because of the attitudes of this administration and the cutbacks, but it was one of the great services to humanity. And I give President Bush and I give my husband enormous credit for doing something that wasn't going to get them headlines, wasn't going to get them some kind of statue put up, but was saving millions of lives, preventing mother to child transmission, preventing people from dying. So, that's what he was doing.
Billy Grant (50:30):
And, thank you for that. Did Mr. Band play a significant role in helping set up the foundation initially?
Secretary Clinton (50:38):
Yes, he did.
Billy Grant (50:42):
And when CGI was initially created, whose idea was that?
Secretary Clinton (50:51):
It was Bill's idea. He went to Davos and he called me after he'd been at Davos and he said, "A lot of interesting people, but they don't do anything but talk and I have a better idea. Why don't we get people together and yeah, they can talk, but they have to make commitments and they have to follow through on the commitments. And we could have an annual meeting that would bring people who were willing to make commitments." And that was his idea and I thought it was a really good idea and I encouraged him to go out and see if he could put it together.
Billy Grant (51:28):
Are you aware of any... Excuse me, are you aware of anyone else helping formulate the idea for CGI?
Secretary Clinton (51:33):
Oh, I think he talked to a lot of people. I couldn't tell you who, but he talked to a lot of people.
Billy Grant (51:39):
Did Mr. Epstein have a role in shaping the formation of CGI?
Secretary Clinton (51:42):
I have no idea. I don't know anything about it.
Billy Grant (51:45):
Did Ghislaine Maxwell have any role in shaping CGI?
Secretary Clinton (51:49):
I don't have any idea about that.
Billy Grant (52:14):
I will enter as Majority Exhibit 11, the interview between Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche and Ms. Ghislaine Maxwell from July of 2025. We'll get you all a copy momentarily.
Ms. Mace (52:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
And I'm sorry, what was this exhibit?
Billy Grant (52:55):
This will be Majority 11. I would like to direct your attention to Page 263.
Secretary Clinton (53:19):
Okay.
Billy Grant (53:54):
And on Page 263, Ms. Maxwell tells Mr. Blanche that she had a role in shaping CGI. You said you were not aware of Ms. Maxwell having any role in shaping CGI?
Secretary Clinton (54:09):
I was not involved in the creation of CGI. Again, I was in the United States Senate. I was not involved in the work that was done to set up CGI.
Billy Grant (54:21):
No one discussed the formation of CGI with you?
Secretary Clinton (54:25):
That it was going to be set up, but I don't have any specific recollection of having any specific knowledge of it, no.
Billy Grant (54:36):
Did Mr. Epstein help craft the idea or formulation of CGI?
Secretary Clinton (54:40):
I don't have any idea. I don't know anything about that.
Billy Grant (55:00):
Is it possible that Ms. Maxwell had a role in creating CGI?
Secretary Clinton (55:00):
I'm not going to speculate. I'm here to tell you what I know and I don't know anything about that.
Billy Grant (55:02):
Understood. And is it possible Mr. Epstein had a role in crafting CGI?
Secretary Clinton (55:05):
I'm not going to speculate about that either because I have no way of knowing that because I have no direct knowledge.
Billy Grant (55:12):
I will enter now as Majority Exhibit 12. This will be a letter from Mr. Epstein's attorneys. I will give you a second for it to be passed out. This is a letter dated July 6, 2007. It is from Gerald B. Lefcourt. He was an attorney for Mr. Epstein. He sent this to the prosecutors in the Southern District of Florida. That would be Sloman, Mitchell, Lori, and Villafana. And I will direct your attention to Page 21. At that top paragraph on Page 21, it says, "Mr. Epstein was part of the original group that conceived the Clinton Global Initiative, which is described as a project bringing together a community of global leaders to devise and implement innovative solutions to some of the world's most pressing challenges." Again, is it possible that Mr. Epstein played a role in crafting CGI?
Secretary Clinton (56:35):
I have no idea what he did or what he said he did, and I have no way to testify to the veracity of either. I was not involved.
Billy Grant (56:48):
Have you seen this document before?
Secretary Clinton (56:49):
No.
Billy Grant (57:08):
The Clinton Foundation accepts donations as part of carrying out its work; is that accurate?
Secretary Clinton (57:17):
Yes.
Billy Grant (57:19):
And when seeking... Let me take a step back. People charitably provide donations to the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (57:31):
It's a 501c3, yes.
Billy Grant (57:32):
And do you or anyone else at the foundation ever solicit donations for the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (57:40):
I'm sure that that happens. People talk to us, we talk to people, they ask questions about the work that's being done, and I'm sure that happened in the years before I was involved.
Billy Grant (57:56):
Did you solicit funds from Jeffrey Epstein for the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (58:00):
I had no contact with Jeffrey Epstein. I did not solicit funds from Jeffrey Epstein.
Billy Grant (58:10):
Did you solicit any funds for the foundation from Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (58:14):
I did not. Again, we're talking about the creation of the foundation. I was not involved in the creation of the foundation or the creation of CGI. In those early years, I was incredibly focused on my job in the Senate. Bill was focused on setting up the foundation and starting CGI.
Billy Grant (58:38):
And understanding you were occupied with your career as a Senator and then your presidential campaign leading up to 2008, but at this time, were you discussing starting the CGI with President Clinton?
Speaker 2 (58:56):
I'm going to object to any communications between the two of them. You can ask generally, but that's covered by the marital communications privilege.
Billy Grant (59:04):
Understood. So, generally speaking.
Secretary Clinton (59:07):
I am sure that I talked to my husband about what he was doing to set up the foundation. It was more on the substance of the work. How many drugs was he getting made in India? What was the idea that was going to motivate CGI to be what he wanted it to be? It was not in the weeds. It was the concept. It was the excitement that he had about trying to establish the foundation and CGI.
Billy Grant (59:38):
And similar question for Mr. Band. Did you discuss the creation of CGI with Mr. Band?
Secretary Clinton (59:49):
I may have because he was around. He worked for my husband. He was a personal aid to my husband, but I don't have any recollections of any specific conversations.
Billy Grant (01:00:17):
Broadly speaking, at any time, do you recall any discussions related to distancing the foundation or CGI from Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (01:00:30):
I don't recall any conversations. I know that sometime, maybe 2003 or so, Bill did not have any ongoing contact with Epstein, and in preparation for this hearing, it became clear to him that Epstein was not interested in the charitable work that was motivating Bill as he traveled around the world, getting people to commit to providing low cost drugs for not just HIV/AIDS, but eventually tuberculosis, malaria, and other diseases.
Billy Grant (01:01:08):
And what is your understanding of Mr. Epstein no longer wanting to participate in the foundation's philanthropic goals?
Secretary Clinton (01:01:22):
I don't... Only in preparation for this have I been told that there was no real interest there and, you know, there was no point in being involved or connected to him.
Billy Grant (01:01:38):
And we touched on this, correct me if I'm wrong, you said you're not aware of Mr. Epstein donating to the foundation. Would you consider... Let me back up. President Clinton took trips on Mr. Epstein's jet; is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:02:01):
Yes.
Billy Grant (01:02:02):
Would you consider offering a private jet as a donation in kind to the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (01:02:09):
Well, I don't know what the rules are under the 501c3 regulations, but it was certainly a gift and he was one of a number of people who provided transportation so that Bill could do the work he was doing.
Billy Grant (01:02:53):
Okay. I think we touched on this. Did Mr. Epstein end up donating to the foundation or CGI?
Secretary Clinton (01:03:04):
I have no personal knowledge of that.
Billy Grant (01:03:10):
You're not aware of a $25,000 donation from Mr. Epstein's affiliated companies to the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (01:03:18):
Only what I was told was alleged in preparation for this testimony. I did not know about that and I don't know that it's true.
Billy Grant (01:03:29):
Are you aware of the Clinton Foundation reviewing any records in regard to Mr. Epstein donating to the foundation?
Secretary Clinton (01:03:37):
I will have to ask our lawyers because I did not.
Billy Grant (01:03:43):
Have you had any conversations about the foundation reviewing those donations made by Mr. Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (01:03:48):
I think I'll have to ask our lawyers. I don't know. I didn't review them.
Billy Grant (01:03:52):
Understood. Ms. Mace, did you have some questions?
Ms. Mace (01:03:56):
I did. Thank you for being here this afternoon. In your opening
Nancy Mace (01:04:00):
Opening remarks, you mentioned this is political theater and partisan. Do you believe the Epstein files are a vast right wing conspiracy?
Secretary Clinton (01:04:09):
I think if they are fully released as the Transparency Act requires, that would be fulfilling the responsibility of the Justice Department, but it appears that there have been many issues with the full release. So I'm not going to characterize it other than to say I think that's a well known fact.
Nancy Mace (01:04:34):
Are you aware that both Republicans and Democrats voted to subpoena you and your husband?
Secretary Clinton (01:04:38):
I am here.
Nancy Mace (01:04:39):
Okay. Are you aware both Republicans and Democrats voted to hold you in contempt when you didn't show up?
Secretary Clinton (01:04:44):
I am here.
Nancy Mace (01:04:45):
Is that partisan when both parties vote to do something together? Is that partisan or nonpartisan?
Secretary Clinton (01:04:50):
I think it's standing up for the institution, but there are many other aspects of the committee's work that strikes me as avoiding the main issues about who should be sitting here, who has actual information that might be useful to your investigation.
Nancy Mace (01:05:05):
As a survivor, I'm a survivor. I appreciated your opening statement and you're prioritizing some of these issues. Have you always believed this way? Have you believed this way for some time?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:13):
Have I what?
Nancy Mace (01:05:15):
Have you believed what you believed in your opening statement for some time?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:18):
Yes, I have.
Nancy Mace (01:05:19):
How long have you had those beliefs or held those beliefs in your opening statement?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:25):
Very long.
Nancy Mace (01:05:26):
In 1998, you had those same beliefs?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:28):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (01:05:29):
2005?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:30):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (01:05:31):
2008?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:32):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (01:05:32):
2012?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:33):
Sure.
Nancy Mace (01:05:34):
2016?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:35):
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Mace (01:05:35):
2020?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:37):
Mm-hmm.
Nancy Mace (01:05:37):
2024 to present day, you've held these beliefs the whole time?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:40):
Yes, I have.
Nancy Mace (01:05:42):
Have you always believed that women abused by powerful men should be believed?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:45):
I know where you're going with this-
Nancy Mace (01:05:46):
Do you?
Secretary Clinton (01:05:47):
... and I have nothing to say about anything in the past. I'm here to answer questions about this investigation.
Nancy Mace (01:05:54):
So do you believe that women who are abused by Epstein and an Epstein circle of associates should be believed?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:02):
I think that many of them have made very credible accusations.
Nancy Mace (01:06:08):
Do you think that women abused by powerful men should get justice?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:12):
I think that they should have their time to be evaluated and where there is adequate evidence, they should certainly get justice and perpetrators should be held to account.
Nancy Mace (01:06:23):
The question was, have you always thought that women abused by powerful men should get justice?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:27):
Yes, absolutely.
Nancy Mace (01:06:29):
I agree. You were aware, I think you said this earlier, that Jeffrey Epstein was convicted in 2008 for procuring a child for prostitution and soliciting a prostitute, correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:39):
That's what the charges were, yes.
Nancy Mace (01:06:42):
And you were aware of that in 2008?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:45):
I don't recall that I was aware then.
Nancy Mace (01:06:47):
And in 2008, you were a US Senator still?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:51):
I was.
Nancy Mace (01:06:52):
Would you say that Jeffrey Epstein is one of the world's most prolific sex traffickers?
Secretary Clinton (01:06:57):
From what we know, he certainly engaged in his predatory activities for a long period of time.
Nancy Mace (01:07:04):
Would you say he's one of the world's most prolific sex traffickers?
Secretary Clinton (01:07:07):
I don't know what to compare it to. They're terrible sex trafficking rings all over the world.
Nancy Mace (01:07:13):
And you said you were Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013. And you state your agency prioritized combating sex trafficking internationally, correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:07:22):
That's correct.
Nancy Mace (01:07:23):
During your time as Secretary of State, did you or the state receive any intelligence, cables, or briefings mentioning Epstein's foreign travel, pedophile island, or his network of pedophiles and sex trafficking?
Secretary Clinton (01:07:33):
Not that I'm aware of, no.
Nancy Mace (01:07:36):
How did you miss it? If he's, I believe, one of the most prolific sex traffickers in the world, you were Secretary of State, how did you miss it?
Secretary Clinton (01:07:44):
Well, that would've been a matter of the Justice Department, not the State Department.
Nancy Mace (01:07:48):
But in your opening statement and your statements earlier, in your opening statement, you stated that Secretary Rubio should be called to testify. And you said that he has, and the administration has quote, "abandoned survivors." Using the same logic, you were Secretary of State during a time period after Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of being a pedophile and soliciting children for sex, why then did you, quote, using your own logic, "abandoned survivors"?
Chairman Comer (01:08:11):
What was the question, please?
Secretary Clinton (01:08:14):
I followed her comment. First of all, we focused on whether there were laws that made sex trafficking, sexual slavery, domestic violence, other abuses of women on the books in countries. And then we tried to evaluate were those laws being implemented and were judges appropriately trained and briefed about how to implement those laws? Were governments taking them seriously? We looked at the broad institutional approach to these very serious abuses.
Nancy Mace (01:08:52):
Would you say the US government at that time, during this time period, was appropriate with the way that it handled Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (01:08:58):
I don't think that you could say that was true about any of the government's prosecutorial efforts, starting with the Southern District of Florida and Alex Acosta and all those who basically gave him a sweetheart deal. And then I think going up the chain, there was very little attention paid-
Nancy Mace (01:09:19):
So it should've been priority.
Secretary Clinton (01:09:20):
... that should have been paid. But we had laws on the books, they were not being implemented. But that was not within my purview because what we were looking at is what's the institutional structure and can we do more to make sure countries take it seriously? Our country had laws on the books. This man was not held to account.
Nancy Mace (01:09:39):
It was not in your purview when you were Secretary of State, then why is it today in Secretary Rubio's purview?
Secretary Clinton (01:09:43):
Because what's happened is that the office that was actually following what was going on around the world has been decimated. 70% of the staff is gone. It's impossible to carry out the functions of that office if you don't have a critical number of people. So my question would be to Secretary Rubio, is there more that can be done?
Nancy Mace (01:10:08):
I'm running out of time here. You were clothed with immense power as Secretary of State. You've stated on the record in your opening statement that child sex trafficking, sex trafficking in general, human trafficking, trafficking of all kinds was a priority. You were clothed with immense power. Your husband was clothed with immense power. And until you got this subpoena and until these files were out in the open, you did nothing to try to effectuate all of these things, you say that should have been done. Is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:10:33):
No, it's totally incorrect. I mean, all of your assumptions are ones that I reject.
Nancy Mace (01:10:38):
When you saw photos of your husband in a hot tub laying on a beach and getting massaged by other women, and you knew that Jeffrey Epstein was involved in some of these trips and these things, did it concern you at all?
Secretary Clinton (01:10:48):
I'm here not to offer my opinions. I'm here to answer specific questions to the best of my ability.
Nancy Mace (01:10:52):
When you saw your husband in these photos with a young woman being massaged, what went through your mind?
Secretary Clinton (01:10:56):
I am not going to speculate.
Nancy Mace (01:10:59):
You didn't have any feelings about young women massaging your husband?
Secretary Clinton (01:11:04):
I am not going to offer opinions or speculation about anything that I have no context for and was not there.
Nancy Mace (01:11:15):
After you learned that Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of sex crime, sex crimes with kids, any of these photos of your husband with women being massaged on the beach, did it concern you?
Secretary Clinton (01:11:24):
I have no context for even answering that question. And I think, obviously, the innuendo, all the rest of it-
Nancy Mace (01:11:32):
I'm asking a black and white question. I'm not putting any leading statements into it or adjectives. Did you do anything to determine what was happening in those images or on those trips? Once you saw these photos, once you realized Jeffrey Epstein was a convicted sex offender of children, did you do anything to determine what was happening on these trips with your husband?
Secretary Clinton (01:11:50):
I don't find any of your questions to be relevant to, in the investigation.
Nancy Mace (01:11:56):
Well, it is relevant if a former president was traveling around with young women?
Secretary Clinton (01:11:58):
Well, you'll have a chance to talk to him tomorrow.
Nancy Mace (01:12:01):
You said this morning you did not solicit funds from Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:05):
That's absolutely correct.
Nancy Mace (01:12:07):
Did anyone solicit funds from Jeffrey Epstein on your behalf?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:10):
Not that I'm aware of.
Nancy Mace (01:12:12):
Did you ever invite Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell to any of your political fundraisers?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:16):
I did not personally invite them to my political fundraisers.
Nancy Mace (01:12:19):
Did anyone personally invite them on your behalf?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:21):
I do not know.
Nancy Mace (01:12:23):
Is the purpose of a political fundraiser to solicit funds?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:27):
You would know that it is.
Nancy Mace (01:12:28):
Okay. And you stated this morning you've never communicated with a Sarah Kaye, correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:32):
I do not know who Sarah Kaye is.
Nancy Mace (01:12:34):
Okay. She's a councilwoman from New Rochelle, which is about how many miles from here?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:39):
Not very far away.
Nancy Mace (01:12:40):
20 to 25?
Secretary Clinton (01:12:42):
I have no idea.
Nancy Mace (01:12:42):
I have an exhibit I would like to enter. This is an email dated September 30th, 2014. Am I allowed to enter an exhibit?
Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Yes, ma'am. This will be Exhibit 13, I believe. Majority Exhibit 13.
Nancy Mace (01:12:54):
Okay. It's from September 30th, 2014.
Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
Can you please provide the witness with a copy?
Nancy Mace (01:13:01):
Okay. Do you have a copy of it?
Speaker X (01:13:01):
Yeah.
Nancy Mace (01:13:01):
You guys have it?
Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Nancy Mace (01:13:14):
And can you read me the subject line of the email?
Secretary Clinton (01:13:18):
"Following up, event with Hillary Clinton and Congresswoman Lowey."
Nancy Mace (01:13:23):
Do you know who Congresswoman Lowey is?
Secretary Clinton (01:13:24):
She was our congresswoman here for many years.
Nancy Mace (01:13:27):
And who is the email from?
Secretary Clinton (01:13:29):
Someone named Sarah Kaye.
Nancy Mace (01:13:32):
Above that. Oh, you have that very top one. Okay. All right. From Sarah Kaye, and it's redacted on who it was sent to. Can you read me the email?
Secretary Clinton (01:13:43):
"Okay, thank you very much for the prompt reply. Hi, Sarah. Thank you for the invitation, but unfortunately, Jeffrey will not be able to attend. Thanks so much for speaking with me just now. Attached, please find the invitation and response card for the event we spoke about with Hillary Clinton and Congresswoman Lowey at the Harvard Club." That was a fundraiser, I believe, for Congresswoman Lowey that I attended to support her, is my recollection.
Nancy Mace (01:14:13):
Okay. And this was an email, this is an invitation to the fundraiser where you were there.
Secretary Clinton (01:14:21):
Do you have any idea if the Epstein referred to is the Jeffrey Epstein? There's a lot of people named Epstein in this area.
Nancy Mace (01:14:29):
This is in the DOJ files.
Secretary Clinton (01:14:31):
I have no knowledge of it.
Chairman Comer (01:14:33):
It says Mr. And Mrs. Epstein.
Secretary Clinton (01:14:35):
Yeah. I have no knowledge of this.
Nancy Mace (01:14:38):
Okay. So it could be a different Jeffrey Epstein.
Secretary Clinton (01:14:42):
You're showing me an email from someone who I don't recall knowing about a fundraiser that wasn't for me, but was for Congresswoman Lowey. I have no information. I went to the fundraiser to support my friend Nita Lowey.
Nancy Mace (01:14:56):
All right.
Speaker 4 (01:14:58):
Excuse me. Can I interrupt?
Nancy Mace (01:15:00):
I have another-
Speaker 4 (01:15:01):
The are photos that are being released of the Secretary as she is testifying from inside this room. Can you please advise me as to whether or not that's permissible and consistent with the rules, particularly given that we have asked for a public hearing. If there are photos that are being released of the secretary as she is testifying, can you please explain how that concur?
Secretary Clinton (01:15:20):
I'm done with this. If you guys are doing that, I am done. You can hold me in contempt from now until the cows come home. This is just typical behavior.
Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
We will go off the record.
Speaker 7 (01:15:29):
I did post one and-
Secretary Clinton (01:15:29):
Oh, for heaven's sake.
Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
So I would like to understand how that's permissible.
Speaker 7 (01:15:32):
It was before the hearing was-
Secretary Clinton (01:15:34):
It doesn't matter. We all are abiding by the same rules.
Speaker 7 (01:15:38):
I will take that down.
Secretary Clinton (01:15:39):
Yeah. Well-
Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
I would like to take a break at this moment. We'd like to have a [inaudible 01:15:43].
Secretary Clinton (01:15:43):
Yeah, I'm done for now.
Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Go off the record. Go off the record. We'll go back on the record. The majority's time had approximately five minutes left and then I believe that the witness or her counsel would like to make a quick statement.
Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
Thank you so much. We've just used the break because we learned during the process of this hearing that the committee was violating its own rules, and members tweeting and sharing pictures of what is going on inside this closed hearing, the hearing that we have asked repeatedly to be open to the public. Chairman Comer was gracious enough to engage with me on this matter. We asked specifically to invite the press in since the committee had already made decisions on its own unilaterally to release pictures and other things that are going on in this room. He indicated that he wanted to speak to that himself directly. I'd like to just say for the record, we find it unacceptable, we find it unprofessional, and we find it unfair. We are looking forward to this being conducted under the rules and being conducted consistent with the expectations of how members of Congress, I know, take this matter so seriously and do it in that vein. We would also like to just indicate as a practical reality that we are here in good faith. We are counting on the good faith of all the members.
Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Thank you. Chairman Comer.
Chairman Comer (01:17:01):
Yeah. I'd like to state for the record, I've advised my members that no photos or videos during the deposition can be released. I understand the posted photo was taken before the deposition started. That will not happen again and we will look forward to continue with the deposition.
Speaker 4 (01:17:20):
I'd like to make just a clarification there, Mr. Chairman. It was taken in this room after the witness sat down. It is not a basis that because she had not started speaking, that it would be appropriate for there to have been a release of anything that was occurring in this room.
Chairman Comer (01:17:35):
And we have made clear that that's not allowed. And I will also say, we were disappointed that the secretary's opening statement was leaked to the press before she even gave her opening statement.
Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
So the secretary's statement was not leaked to the press. It was provided as with other witnesses, including Mr. Wexner, who provided his before giving, hers was given simultaneous. And so what we don't want is the secretary to be treated any differently than other witnesses. That seems to be a consistent pattern and we would love that pattern not to continue.
Chairman Comer (01:18:08):
We've gone to great lengths to make all the accommodations that you all have requested. So we will, again, the members have been advised, that is unacceptable.
Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Thank you.
Chairman Comer (01:18:19):
We look forward to continuing the deposition.
Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate you addressing it.
Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
Thank you, Member Garcia.
Member Garcia (01:18:26):
Thank you. No, I just want to add, it's completely unacceptable that oversight Republicans and its members in this moment chose to violate both committee rules and the agreement that they negotiated directly with Secretary Clinton. Now, the Clintons requested a public hearing specifically to avoid this exact situation. Now, Secretary Clinton has offered to continue speaking throughout this deposition, if we also allow the press to come in and on the record. Now, the majority has continued to refuse this. I want to make very clear for the record that oversight Democrats agree today. They should be allowed here into the deposition. That's been our position from day one. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
And with that, the majority will conclude its first hour. We'll go off the record.
Speaker 5 (01:19:13):
We can go back on the record. I understand counsel has something that they would like to say before we get started.
Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
Yes, I would. First of all, I'd like to say I appreciate everyone being here today, but I want to start with, we've just learned that there has been a second violation of the promise that the chairman made with respect to no photos being taken in this room during this hearing. As you know, we have asked for and did ask Mr. Comer for the press to be invited in. They are sitting right outside. Literally, he has been speaking with them and we have been asked that they be invited in at the last break because we learned that there was a member who was sharing photos from inside this room in violation of this committee's own rules. We have now been presented with a second photo of the witness, Secretary Clinton, while she has been testifying in this room.
(01:20:17)
That is completely inconsistent with the rules. It's completely in violation. And it's also in violation of the promise that Mr. Comer just made with respect to it would not happen again, and indeed it did. And so I would like to ensure that when we go back on the record and when Mr. Comer elects to rejoin the room, I note he has left for the record, I would like to be able to ensure that we address that. Or sorry, he has not left. He's down at the end. There's been a second violation, Mr. Chairman. So now I do really feel that it would be appropriate for the press to be invited in because someone has already violated the commitment and promise you made that there would not be any further violations.
Chairman Comer (01:20:54):
Do you have a copy of the picture? We are on a-
Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
I am confident that one of the individuals here can share with you a copy of the picture and I would rather that at this point we invite the press in.
Chairman Comer (01:21:05):
We don't know who's in that picture.
Speaker 6 (01:21:07):
We're going to show the photo.
Chairman Comer (01:21:10):
It's from who?
Speaker 6 (01:21:11):
I believe it's from the same influencer. Emily, go with Andrew to make sure we have the same.
Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Mr. Chairman, will you allow the press in at this time since there has been a second violation of your clear guidance that no further pictures-
Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
Go off the record to confer with the chairman.
Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
Go off the record, please. We can go back on the record.
Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Thank you very much. We have examined the second photo that was taken inside this room in violation of the committee's rules. Mr. Chairman, you have indicated that you will assure that that will not happen again. Mr. Chairman, we continue to believe that the remedy for this is to invite the press in. At this juncture, we believe that there is no reason not to do so. We recognize that you continue to resist having the press join, but if you would like, we would welcome that. Otherwise, we would welcome no further violations.
Chairman Comer (01:23:00):
What was the last part? You would welcome?
Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
I know it's hard to hear without amplification.
Chairman Comer (01:23:05):
No further violation. No further violations. But I would like to note one thing, if I may. A New York Times reporter tweeted that her Dem member in the room, and then she said that Maxwell was at Chelsea's wedding because she was dating a friend who brought her as a plus one and all
that. So there's a Democrat member leaking to the press what's going on in here, according to the Annie Carney.
Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
So Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I know part of this is always about the tit-for-tat, and I think that's what we're trying to address. We are here and we're speaking with respect to the witness and what has been a violation of a photo of her inside this room. I'm not trying to get into anybody else's First Amendment rights. When it comes to the photo, please instruct your member to take the photo down until after.
Chairman Comer (01:23:57):
I have.
Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
Thank you so much. Nothing further.
Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
Thank you. Good afternoon.
Secretary Clinton (01:24:04):
Good afternoon.
Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
My name is... I'll be doing most of the questioning for the minority today. First, I want to thank you for your long and distinguished service to this country.
Secretary Clinton (01:24:17):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:24:18):
I'd also want to thank you for your time today. We appreciate it.
Secretary Clinton (01:24:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
Before we get to questions, I'd like to take a few minutes and highlight some context that we think is relevant for today's conversation. To be candid with you, it's not clear to us that you have much information to share with this committee that would be relevant to our investigation of Jeffrey Epstein. For example, I would like to introduce as Minority Exhibit A, this excerpt from Ghislaine Maxwell's interview with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. I'll read out loud the relevant excerpt for you. You can see that Ms. Maxwell was asked, quote, "Do you know whether Mr. Epstein had, knew or had any sort of visit, dealings, or associated with Hillary Clinton?"
(01:25:16)
And Ms. Maxwell said, quote, "I would say no." Ms. Maxwell was asked, quote, "Did you ever see them together?" Ms. Maxwell said, "No." So there are some events we're aware of where you might have been in the same place as Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell at the same time. We'll ask about those, but we are a little confused about why we're even here. I imagine you might have your own perspective on this. You shared a little bit of that earlier. Is there anything more you'd like to share from your point of view on today's conversation before we get started?
Secretary Clinton (01:25:51):
Thank you very much, counsel. I appreciate your recognition of the context. I do not think I am or could be a significant witness to anything that would affect the work of this committee with respect to the investigation. I understand that that was a decision made to subpoena me and I thought it would've been more appropriate to treat me in the context in which you have just placed me. That's why I offered a sworn statement outlining my lack of knowledge with respect to either Epstein or Maxwell and the crimes that they committed, but the majority of the committee and then the entire committee determined that they wished to talk with me. And it is still somewhat of a puzzle for me to be here and trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability, because I don't think it's a good use of the committee's time. The matters that are included within the broad scope of the investigation as described by the chairman are ones that I take very seriously and I would personally like to see the committee pay attention to those who have information that could be responsive.
Speaker 5 (01:27:27):
Thank you. I appreciate it. I'd like to start our conversation with a few foundational questions so we can get a clear record from the very beginning. And you've covered some of this earlier, but I want to be really clear for the transcript. Before his crimes became public, did you have any knowledge of the sexual abuse that Jeffrey Epstein was committing against girls and young women?
Secretary Clinton (01:27:49):
No.
Speaker 5 (01:27:51):
Before her crimes became public, did you have any knowledge of the sexual abuse that Ghislaine Maxwell was committing and facilitating against girls and young women?
Secretary Clinton (01:28:01):
No.
Speaker 5 (01:28:03):
Our colleagues have suggested that they need to speak with you because Ghislaine Maxwell's nephew worked for your 2008 presidential campaign and then at the State Department when you were Secretary of State, that is somebody named Alexander Djerassi. Are you familiar with Alexander Djerassi?
Secretary Clinton (01:28:22):
I am. Alex Djerassi volunteered for my 2008 presidential campaign. I did not know him. I don't know what motivated him to be a volunteer, but he proved to be a very effective contributor to the campaign. He earned a paid position on the campaign. All of my staff that interacted with him on the campaign had a very high regard for his intelligence and his skills. He's an extremely well-educated young man. And when I became Secretary of State, he was recommended for a job that he was well suited for. I had absolutely no idea that he was in any way related to Ghislaine Maxwell until I received the subpoena from this committee suggesting that he was. And that was the first I knew of it.
Speaker 5 (01:29:25):
So is it fair to say that as far as you know, Mr. Djerassi was not hired for your campaign or at the State Department because he was Ghislaine Maxwell's nephew?
Secretary Clinton (01:29:35):
That is absolutely fair to say, and I can't speak for everyone in my campaign. Obviously, it's a huge enterprise, but I would be surprised if anyone knew that he was related to Ghislaine Maxwell, but I can absolutely testify to the fact that I did not.
Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
Are there any other accusations or claims that have been made against you with respect to Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell that you would like to address before we move into some chronological questions?
Secretary Clinton (01:30:04):
Well, I don't keep up with all the conspiracy theories and the crazy allegations that populate the internet, so I'm sure there are, but I will do my best to answer your questions as you pose them.
Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
Okay. I will ask a series of chronological questions. I know most of these are from a long time ago. If you don't recall, just tell me you don't recall. As an initial matter, would you recall roughly how many events and receptions would you have attended at the White House during your time as First Lady?
Secretary Clinton (01:30:36):
Well, I was privileged to be at the White House as First Lady for eight years, and I have no way of giving you an accurate number, but they would be in the thousands. And they were one of the great privileges of being in the White House, hosting events, hosting meetings, meeting people, using the rooms of the White House, using the grounds of the White House. So many hundreds, maybe thousands of events, but many, many thousands of people.
Speaker 5 (01:31:11):
I was just going to ask if you could estimate how many people you might have met at those hundreds or thousands of events and receptions.
Secretary Clinton (01:31:19):
Well, counsel, I can't say I met every person who ever attended an event, and so I can't really give you an accurate number, but if the event was a small event, perhaps I would meet everyone. But for most of the large events that we hosted, it was hit or miss if I met somebody or didn't meet somebody. For the huge Christmas receptions, which were thousands of people that would come to enjoy the holiday decorations at the White House, so I can't really give you a totally clear answer other than, I did my best to greet people and to be an appropriate hostess because I took seriously my responsibilities as First Lady.
Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
So Mr. Epstein visited the White House a fair amount during your husband's first term in office. One, and I think the only specific event that we're aware of where you may have been present was, as you mentioned earlier, a September 29th, 1993 reception for donors to a White House renovation project that was funded through the White House Historical Association. And our understanding is there was some kind of reception that night. Do you have any recollection of attending that event or that reception?
Secretary Clinton (01:32:46):
I have no specific recollection, but I know that I was expected to, and I assume I did, but I can't, sitting here today, describe anything specific about that event, but I was very anxious to support fundraising that went to the White House Historical Association that in turn supported the upkeep and the maintenance of the White House. Because certainly it was an old building with a lot of very valuable furniture and art, and it took a lot of wear and tear because I just finished explaining we had thousands of people who would come through. And I'm not even talking about the visitors who would come through, because that was many, many more thousands. So the House itself needed to be carefully cared for. And so my husband and I hosted the event and the White House Historical Association brought those who had contributed because it was ultimately beneficial for the White House.
Speaker 5 (01:33:52):
Would it be correct to say that sitting here, you have no specific memory or recollection of meeting Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell at that event in 1993?
Secretary Clinton (01:34:03):
That is an accurate statement. In fact, when I got the subpoena, I was incredulous because I never thought I was in the same room with Jeffrey Epstein. And it was brought to my attention that he was very likely to have attended the White House Historical Association, but I have no independent recollection of that.
Speaker 5 (01:34:26):
Okay. It has been publicly reported that Mr. Epstein visited the White House 16 other times during your husband's first term. He was signed in by different staff members and visited different parts of the White House. Broadly speaking, do you have any memory or knowledge of any other visits by Jeffrey Epstein to the White House, other than the one we just discussed?
Secretary Clinton (01:34:48):
Not that I recall, but I want to be clear, that doesn't mean that I didn't pass somebody in the hallway, that somebody didn't pop in, but I have no recollection of meeting with him, seeing him, conversing with him in the White House.
Speaker 5 (01:35:05):
I'm going to fast-forward all the way to 1999. We believe that Mr. Epstein contributed $20,000 to your joint fundraising account with the Democratic Party. Would you have any specific memory, knowledge, or recollection of that particular contribution sitting here today?
Secretary Clinton (01:35:25):
I do not. And again, this was something that I learned about in preparation for testifying. And as you point out, counsel, the contribution went to the joint committee that was set up to support my Senate campaign. And again, my memory is that we couldn't coordinate between joint committees and campaigns. I mean, those were the rules back in the day, as I recall them. So I don't have any recollection at all that I knew he contributed to my campaign. And he did not contribute as far
Secretary Clinton (01:36:00):
As far as I know directly, but then this indirect contribution to the joint committee, I don't recall that I knew it at the time and I was surprised to learn it in preparation for testifying.
Speaker 5 (01:36:13):
So at this point, toward the end of your husband's presidency, how would you characterize your relationships at that point with Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (01:36:23):
Non-existent.
Speaker 5 (01:36:28):
Thank you. Moving to the period after your husband's presidency, again, we don't really have much of a record to work off of. There is public reporting that sometime in 2007, Ms. Maxwell may have co-hosted a fundraiser for your presidential campaign in New York City. We don't know much about it. Christina Aguilera may have performed, if that's helpful. Do you have any specific recollection of that event?
Secretary Clinton (01:36:57):
I do not, but I, again, have been told and reminded that there was an event with a very large host committee for my campaign and Christina did appear and I believe performed. I have no further information than that. I was attending many, many fundraising events and I don't recall any specific encounter or conversation with anyone, including Ghislaine Maxwell.
Speaker 5 (01:37:38):
Ms. Maxwell also appears to have donated $2,300 to your presidential campaign that year. Do you have any memory or knowledge of that specific contribution?
Secretary Clinton (01:37:50):
I do not.
Speaker 5 (01:37:51):
Would it be fair to say that your presidential campaign likely would have had a fair number of donors donating $2,300 thereabouts?
Secretary Clinton (01:38:00):
Oh, many, many thousands. I don't recall the exact number, but my best memory is that we raised nearly a billion dollars. And so it was a fast, frenetic pace. And I'm grateful for everyone who contributed, obviously, but I have no specific recollection of her contribution.
Speaker 5 (01:38:26):
It's been widely reported and we, I think, discussed in the previous hour that in July of 2010, Ms. Maxwell attended your daughter's wedding in Rhinebeck, New York, and that she may have accompanied Ted Waitt, who was reportedly a family friend, or at least was at the time. You, of course, were also present at the wedding. Do you have any recollection of Ms. Maxwell's attendance at the wedding?
Secretary Clinton (01:38:52):
I have no specific recollection. Obviously, there's a picture of her being at the wedding as my husband walks my daughter down the aisle. She was there as a guest of Ted Waitt, someone we had known for 30 years, I believe, who was a strong supporter of my husband and became a friend. And there were more than 500 people at the wedding. So other than that picture of her at the wedding, I have no recollection of talking with her. I was pretty focused on my daughter and the wedding party and the wonderful occasion that it was. So I don't recall having any conversation other than the fact she was there and she was there as Ted Waitt's guest.
Speaker 5 (01:39:49):
And the understanding that you had, if any, about her relationship with Mr. Waitt, what was your understanding of that, if you had one?
Secretary Clinton (01:39:57):
That they must have been dating. And this was, of course, long before certainly I knew anything about the activities that she was charged with engaging in and the crimes that she was convicted of.
Speaker 5 (01:40:15):
During her interview last year with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, Ms. Maxwell said that she may have met you on a flight from Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard to New York. That's not a lot to go on and I would note that one of the charges Ms. Maxwell faced was perjury, but do you recall ever meeting Ms. Maxwell on a flight from Massachusetts to New York?
Secretary Clinton (01:40:39):
I don't recall it. I'm not going to say it didn't happen, but I don't recall it. And my memory too, counsel, and you would have to check this, but I believe I was told that in her long interview with Todd Blanche ... It's Todd Blanche, right?
Speaker 5 (01:40:56):
Yeah. Todd Blanche.
Secretary Clinton (01:40:56):
Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, she herself said that she attended the wedding as Ted Waitt's guest.
Speaker 5 (01:41:05):
In that same interview, Ms. Maxwell said that she visited your home in Chappaqua a few times and that she was invited. Do you have any memory or knowledge of Ms. Maxwell being invited to and visiting your home?
Secretary Clinton (01:41:18):
I do not. And I was not present for any visit if one occurred.
Speaker 5 (01:41:24):
It's been reported that in September of 2013 at a Clinton Global Initiative Conference in New York, Ms. Maxwell was recognized as a commitment to action partner for her work on behalf of the TerraMar Project, which was an ocean conservation nonprofit that she founded in 2012. Do you have any recollection of whether you were at that event? So that's a Clinton Global Initiative Conference in New York in September 2013.
Secretary Clinton (01:41:52):
I believe I attended the conference, but during the conference, there are many different sessions going on. There are some main stage sessions with very high profile people. We've had an extraordinary collection of world leaders, including Pope Francis and others. But then there are many of what are called breakout sessions that are smaller sessions where people gather usually around the issue they're interested in. So in this case, if it had been the oceans, there might have been a breakout session about that. And I do not recall seeing her there. I do not recall any knowledge of her being there, but if she were there and she were making a commitment, it would have been in one of these smaller sessions.
(01:42:44)
And I have to add, in 2013, Ms. Maxwell spoke at the United Nations, she gave a TED Talk, she was featured for her work about oceans in a long profile on CNN. So she had a public persona that the UN, the TED Talk people, CNN and the press all recognized because nobody at that time knew what was later discovered.
Speaker 5 (01:43:22):
And is it right to say, and it sounds like you would not have had any direct role in organizing whatever her role was at that particular event?
Secretary Clinton (01:43:30):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 5 (01:43:32):
At that point in 2013, if you can recall, how would you have characterized your relationships with Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (01:43:41):
Had no relationship, no knowledge of, never met or talked to Jeffrey Epstein. I viewed Ghislaine Maxwell as an acquaintance, someone that I might see, but had no real relationship with.
Speaker 5 (01:44:01):
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 8 (01:44:01):
Thank you, Madam Secretary. I know that a couple of the minority members have just a couple questions as part of this hour as well. And so I have a few and then I'll turn it over to a couple of the minority members as well. You can hear me okay from here?
Secretary Clinton (01:44:14):
Yes, I can. But it would help if the minority members would move across-
Speaker 8 (01:44:19):
Yeah, actually they're going to sit right here as soon as I'm-
Secretary Clinton (01:44:20):
Okay, perfect. Perfect. Thank you.
Speaker 8 (01:44:22):
Great. Thank you. I want to just begin by just asking a few questions, which I believe you've already clarified in your opening statement, but just to be very clear on the record one more time. As best as you can recall, you've never met Jeffrey Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (01:44:37):
That's true. That's correct.
Speaker 8 (01:44:39):
As best as you can recall, and you've said this, you've never went to the island.
Secretary Clinton (01:44:43):
Never went to the island.
Speaker 8 (01:44:44):
You never flew with him on a plane.
Secretary Clinton (01:44:45):
Never flew with him on a plane.
Speaker 8 (01:44:47):
And you were never aware of his horrific crimes prior to those becoming public knowledge, is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (01:44:53):
That is correct.
Speaker 8 (01:44:54):
Okay. Thank you. I also wanted just to know, one of the questions that we've been receiving a lot has been speculation amongst the public that Jeffrey Epstein was somehow affiliated with foreign intelligence agencies or other intelligence services. And I know that we have received numerous questions of that type.
(01:45:14)
Now, obviously you served as Secretary of State. Thank you for your service. In your role as Secretary of State, were you ever made aware of Jeffrey Epstein having any types of relationships with foreign intelligence agencies, obviously of course of a foreign country?
Secretary Clinton (01:45:30):
I was not. And Ranking Member Garcia, I am aware of the speculation around this that comes from the files being released and questions being raised, and I do think that is a fruitful area for the committee to investigate.
Speaker 8 (01:45:48):
No, I appreciate that because I'll say of the types of questions that we're receiving, the kind of conversation around whether Jeffrey Epstein had any ties to foreign intelligence or was working with foreign governments continues to come up. And so obviously as Secretary of State, that would be something I would imagine you may or may not have information for. So I appreciate that response.
(01:46:14)
Madam Secretary, just lastly, I want to also thank you for your testimony. And broadly speaking, you've probably been following just recently and this week we've seen and there's been reports that numerous files are missing from the group of files that have been released. For the record, only about approximately 50% of the total files have likely been released. The other percentage have been withheld for whatever reasons we're not really sure of and don't really understand.
(01:46:46)
It's also been reported by numerous outlets this week that the FBI has removed files that are supposed to be made available to the Congress that includes serious allegations of alleged abuse by President Trump, sexual abuse to a minor. Now these are allegations that we know have been corroborated in other ways and the media have reported on these, but these files themselves have been removed. Now, we view this as a very serious matter. I've personally looked for these files in the archive manifest that lists which files should be placed there. Those files are no longer there, and we have been calling on the DOJ and the Attorney General to release all of the files.
(01:47:39)
I'm wondering if, in your experience obviously in the US Senate, as Secretary of State, if you have entered response to the behavior of the DOJ in their withholding of critical information and the apparent removal of files that could suggest serious crimes by folks in this administration.
Secretary Clinton (01:48:03):
Congressman, I appreciate your raising this issue, and I appreciated the statement that you put out when this became public knowledge thanks to investigative reporting, which revealed it. And I think that this behavior by the Justice Department deserves the most thorough investigation that the Congress could carry out. As I understand the sequence of events, this committee subpoenaed the Justice Department, as well as the Epstein estate, as well as law enforcement officials from prior administrations, as well as my husband and me. The Justice Department refused to comply, which is what led to the passage by the Congress of the Transparency Act, which then was signed into law. And I think from the very beginning, the behavior of the attorney general and her staff has demonstrated either a gross incompetence, which is bothersome because they are the keepers of information that should be evaluated for law enforcement purposes, or a clear coverup because they are protecting the president and others.
(01:49:36)
Either one of those should be the focus of this committee to try to get to the bottom. If they are incompetent and they are incapable of complying with the law that the Congress passed, we need to know that because they are falling down on the job. They have an FBI director who's more interested in drinking beer in a hockey dressing room after our team won the Olympics, rather than being responsive and complying with the law as it has been promulgated.
(01:50:13)
So I don't think it's unfair to say that given the sequencing of the events, starting with the way that President Trump made the release of the files a key element of his 2024 campaign, the promise that he and then his attorney general made that the files would be released, then a walking back of that as they began to look at the files. An ignoring of what they had promised, including that they had a client list on the desk of the attorney general. Reasonable people would have to assume they are engaged in a massive coverup, which is infuriating as an American, as a citizen, all of us should be, regardless of party, wondering what are they hiding?
(01:51:14)
And that's why I said in my opening statement, "The President of the United States is not above the law." And should be in a setting like this answering questions under oath, as should others who are prominently featured in the files. And especially the group that is featured after 2008, because prior to 2008, when Jeffrey Epstein pled guilty to the watered down charges that Alex Acosta negotiated and then was rewarded for in the first Trump administration with a cabinet position, there are so many unanswered questions. And I looked at the transcript of the Alex Acosta testimony that was taken before this committee, and I don't think that any Republican members asked him a question.
(01:52:17)
So you have to conclude that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark or clearly the Justice Department, starting in the White House and at the top with the Attorney General. And this latest example of the missing files about the allegations, and they are absolutely nothing more than allegations, but the FBI interviewed that witness four times. You don't interview a non-credible witness four times. You don't put into the FBI reporting "protect this source" if you think there is nothing to it. So of course, I would like to know, like every other American deserves to know, what is in those files and who is going to hold people accountable? Because the Justice Department seems to be either unwilling or incapable of doing so.
Speaker 8 (01:53:20):
Thank you, Madam Secretary. Let me also just add one thing. You've probably also read reporting that Secretary Lutnick was pretty open in an interview about not having spoken to Mr. Epstein or interacted with him after 2005. And then we go on to learn that Secretary Lutnick not only went to the island, there were visits, they went into possible business together, communicated with his wife. So there were numerous interactions that happened after that interview. We believe that Secretary Lutnick should be in front of this committee answering questions, especially when he's choosing to essentially lie about his interactions with Mr. Epstein. Would agree that Secretary Lutnick should come and testify?
Secretary Clinton (01:54:07):
I think everyone that the committee sees playing a prominent role in the files should be deposed. That is your job. Your job is to try to get to the truth as best as you can determine it. And that should be the guiding principle, it seems to me, as to who you ask to come before you.
Speaker 8 (01:54:36):
Thank you.
Secretary Clinton (01:54:49):
Hello, Congressman.
Speaker 9 (01:54:50):
Hello. Thank you, Secretary, for being here today. I'm going to ask you a few questions that might be a little redundant.
Secretary Clinton (01:54:55):
That's okay.
Speaker 9 (01:54:56):
But just to get on the record. So am I correct that you did not know at any point before Jeffrey Epstein's crimes became public that Epstein committed or facilitated sexual abuse of minors and young women?
Secretary Clinton (01:55:07):
That is correct.
Speaker 9 (01:55:08):
And prior to Epstein's crimes becoming public, were you ever warned not to associate with him?
Secretary Clinton (01:55:14):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 9 (01:55:16):
And you did not know at any point before Maxwell's crimes became public that she committed or facilitated sexual abuse of minors or young women?
Secretary Clinton (01:55:23):
That is correct.
Speaker 9 (01:55:24):
And did anyone ever raise concerns to you about Ms. Maxwell or warn you not to associate with her at any point?
Secretary Clinton (01:55:30):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 9 (01:55:31):
Thank you. And you served as First Lady and US Senator and Secretary of State, and so you met a lot of other heads of state foreign dignitaries. And so at any point, did Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell's names come up?
Secretary Clinton (01:55:45):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 9 (01:55:47):
And you mentioned you did a lot of work on human trafficking. Could you talk a little bit more about that? And then also I would love to know if Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell's names ever came up.
Secretary Clinton (01:55:57):
No. I can tell you that those names never came up. As I said, prior to their crimes becoming public, I don't think people knew. Or if they did know, they were not sharing that. Or if they did share it with the FBI or the Justice Department, the investigations never went anywhere. So I don't know that anybody would have ever raised those names, and I don't know that anybody knew to even look into it.
(01:56:31)
As I said, the whole question of human trafficking, sexual slavery, forced labor, domestic violence, for the longest time were not even considered crimes. And it took a lot of effort on the part of many, many courageous people around the world to raise the visibility of these crimes and to actually change criminal law in many countries. When I spoke in 1995 at the UN World Conference on Women in Beijing, that was one of the issues everyone was struggling with. Domestic violence was considered cultural, not criminal. Sexual slavery was just something that happened. Young women were forced into prostitution. All of this was certainly known and was something that had gone on for centuries, thousands of years.
(01:57:31)
But there became finally enough outrage and organizational impetus to begin to try to change that, and that's what I worked on when I was First Lady. Because I really became aware as I traveled to Asia and Africa, even Eastern Europe, particularly after the fall of the Soviet Union, what a big criminal network was operating around the world to traffic people. And obviously, we're here focusing on what happened to girls and women with being sexually abused, but it's also true that people were forced into labor and mines and fishing boats. I mean, this was a phenomenon that finally was getting attention and we worked very hard to raise visibility. I mentioned the law that was finally passed in our country in 2000. There was also something called the Palermo Protocol where nations came together to pledge themselves to change laws, to implement enforcement against trafficking.
(01:58:41)
So it's been a long struggle, but we've tried to focus on preventing it, prosecuting it and protecting the survivors. And we've made progress, but obviously we're here today talking about crimes that still are happening even in our own country.
Speaker 9 (01:59:02):
I know the public wants names to be named. And I know this is a difficult question for you given your lack of a relationship with Epstein or Maxwell, but are there any names that you think we should be talking to at this point that haven't been out there already?
Secretary Clinton (01:59:16):
I don't know any more than you do as to what's being exposed in the files. I saw where Congressman Massey stood on the floor the other day and said that he named three people, as I recall, that should be investigated. But there's a long list of people who even if they did not do something themselves wrong, because of their association with Epstein might have credible information for your committee.
Speaker 9 (01:59:47):
And final question, you've expressed a desire for this hearing to be public. I'd just love to hear sort of an explanation for why.
Secretary Clinton (01:59:55):
Yeah. Look, I think sunlight is the best disinfectant. I think as much as we can do in public, we should do. And I've testified before Congress many times before you were there, and it was always in public. I mean, that's what we did. I testified, and I was on the other side of the table asking questions in public. Except for something that was classified that couldn't be in public, what we did was in the sunlight in front of the press because people, namely our constituents, deserve to know what we are finding out and to go along with us with few exceptions to understand what the Congress is doing.
(02:00:39)
So I believe for a long time, I think we should be testifying in public and I think it would benefit this committee for people to see that you're actually doing things, and especially if you call people who have some credible information for you, that you are committed, regardless of the cover-up in the Justice Department or whatever directions the DOJ is getting from the White House, you are determined to find out the truth.
Speaker 9 (02:01:07):
Thank you.
Secretary Clinton (02:01:27):
Hello, Congressman.
Speaker 10 (02:01:29):
Secretary, how are you?
Secretary Clinton (02:01:32):
I'm okay.
Speaker 10 (02:01:33):
First and foremost, thank you for being here.
Secretary Clinton (02:01:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 10 (02:01:36):
Secondly, as an attorney, I know sometimes things are done differently in DC, but when an agreement is made and our word is given, it should be kept.
Secretary Clinton (02:01:48):
I agree with that.
Speaker 10 (02:01:52):
And first and foremost, to get into the line of questioning that I had, on November 12th of last year, oversight committee Democrats released emails that were obtained from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein. In one email from 2011, Epstein said to Ghislaine Maxwell that President Trump was quote, "That dog that hasn't barked." And that an unnamed victim, "Spent hours at my house with him." In another email from 2019, Epstein wrote that, "Of course, he," referring to President Trump, "knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop." Two days later, President Trump directed Attorney General Pam Bondi to investigate President Clinton and other prominent Democrats in order to distract from his own close ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
(02:02:51)
I'll mark as Minority Exhibit B a Truth Social post from Donald Trump dated November 14th, 2025. And I think you have that now. As you can see, President Trump's post refers to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes against young girls and women as the "Epstein hoax." His post also completely ignores several other high profile individuals, including Republicans and allies of President Trump who are known to have had relationships with Epstein. In fact, the Epstein files contain numerous officials in the current and previous Trump administrations who have connections to Jeffrey Epstein, including, but I'm not sure it's limited to, Howard Lutnick, RFK Jr., Steve Bannon, Elon Musk, Tom Barrack, Kevin Warsh, and Mehmet Oz to name a few.
(02:03:52)
Secretary Clinton, to your knowledge, has the Trump administration done anything at all to investigate these other individuals with ties to Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:04:01):
Congressman, I know of nothing, just reading the press. I obviously have no inside information that there has been any effort whatsoever to investigate the names that you just mentioned or any others who might have credible information about Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. And I think that's where this committee comes in. You are not beholden to the Justice Department. You have an independent Article I jurisdiction. You are the co-equal branch of government and you have the responsibility to pursue what the Justice Department apparently is failing to pursue.
(02:04:43)
The other point I would make is having observed President Trump up close and personal for a number of years now since I ran against him, he has a tell. He has a behavioral tell. Whenever he is worried about being found out himself, he accuses somebody else of doing what he actually has done. And it's just a pattern with him. So it's no surprise to me that all of a sudden what he promised in his campaign to reveal, everything about the files, and then when his people began looking in the files and realized how potentially incriminating they were of him, all of a sudden, that was no longer the focus. It was blaming Democrats, talking about a hoax, saying, "Move on. There's nothing to see here." That is a typical pattern of President Trump's behavior, which speaks louder than all the words that he speaks and all of the Truth Social posts that he makes.
(02:05:52)
He clearly knows what he did. He knows what others did because remember, one of the emails that has come out recently is he called the police chief of Palm Beach at the time Epstein was arrested, according to reporting, to say, "I'm so glad you got him. I'm so glad you're stopping him." Well, how would he know that? How would he know that? So there is so much to be uncovered here rather than being covered up. And it really, in addition to the specific information that could be gotten and the accountability that could be achieved, it would restore trust. The American people are not dumb. They're watching this. They're seeing this. They're following this. And it's just one more example of us not doing the kind of work that would build trust in finding out the truth, not just for the victims and survivors, but for the American public.
Speaker 10 (02:06:59):
I just have a couple quick questions. Howard Lutnick recently went so far as to lie about his close connections with Jeffrey Epstein, but the truth came out with the release of the files. Secretary Clinton, is Howard Lutnick still employed as the Secretary of Commerce in the Trump administration?
Secretary Clinton (02:07:16):
So far as I know.
Speaker 10 (02:07:17):
Secretary Clinton, in your opinion, why has Donald Trump ignored these other prominent figures who had close ties to Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:07:25):
I can't speculate on that, Congressman. I think it's a worthwhile question to ask, and I think it certainly should be asked by this committee.
Speaker 10 (02:07:34):
And lastly, in light of everything, not just what I think was an embarrassing leak earlier, do you believe your deposition today is a good faith exercise?
Secretary Clinton (02:07:48):
I can't conclude that. I think all the information such as it is that I have could have been delivered and a sworn statement could have been delivered
Secretary Clinton (02:08:01):
... to written interrogatories, so I'm not going to speculate about the committee's intentions here. But a former member of this committee, someone with whom I doubt I have very much in common, Marjorie Taylor Greene, said that Trump put pressure on Bondi not to release the files. And if I recall, she was one of the votes for the Transparency Act, and she and others, including other members of this committee, were hauled into the White House and taken to the woodshed. And so I believe she may be a source of information about her own experience demonstrating clearly that this White House does not want the Justice Department to release the files that might in any way incriminate President Trump.
Speaker 11 (02:09:01):
Thank you, Madam Sectary.
Speaker 12 (02:09:15):
Thank you so much for being here, Madam Secretary. Some of this was briefly touched upon, but as you know, there is wide speculation among the public that Jeffrey Epstein may have been affiliated with domestic intelligence agencies and services. Alex Acosta, for example, Secretary of Labor and the first Trump administration allegedly said that Epstein "belonged to intelligence." We know that Acosta has denied this statement, but it nonetheless raises questions about Epstein. You obviously served in a variety of highly sensitive positions allowing you to access some of our nation's most sensitive and secretive information. Either during or after your time in government, were you ever made aware of Jeffrey Epstein having any kind of relationship directly or indirectly with the United States Intelligence Agency or service like the CIA?
Secretary Clinton (02:10:01):
I was not, but obviously I served in the Senate and don't recall anything like that ever being presented. I was on the Armed Services Committee, so perhaps there might have been a mention if there was any relevance. And in the State Department, I don't recall any information like that at all.
Speaker 12 (02:10:23):
And were you ever made aware of Ghislaine Maxwell having any kind of relationship with an intelligence agency or service in the United States?
Secretary Clinton (02:10:29):
I was not.
Speaker 12 (02:10:30):
Thank you. Now, during the committee's deposition of former Attorney General Bill Barr, he indicated that, "Many American businessmen who have foreign contacts sometimes will talk to intelligence agencies and provide information to them." Are you aware of Jeffrey Epstein having these less formal interactions with the CEI or any other domestic intelligence?
Secretary Clinton (02:10:48):
I'm not aware of any intelligence connections of Jeffrey Epstein at all.
Speaker 12 (02:10:54):
And that applies to foreign intelligence as well?
Secretary Clinton (02:10:57):
Yes, it does.
Speaker 12 (02:10:58):
Okay. I want to move to-
Secretary Clinton (02:10:59):
But I do think, Congresswoman, as I said earlier, your questions are well taken. There are so many threads of this investigation that need to be followed. You are talking about the intelligence, we have talked about the sexual abuses, and we also should be following the money. One of my former colleagues, Senator Wyden, is trying to get out of the Treasury Department records about Jeffrey Epstein's financial transactions. The Congress should, and this committee certainly should, subpoena the treasury secretary for the information that Senator Wyden has compiled. In my experience in the Senate, Senator Wyden is a thoughtful, careful investigator. If he says there's something there, I would take it to the bank. And so follow the money, follow these foreign involvement intelligence potential. Whether they're true or not, I don't know. And of course, follow whatever leads you can get out of the emails and other information that are being put forth by either DOJ or the Epstein estate or anybody else on the crimes that he committed.
Speaker 12 (02:12:23):
Thank you. That brings us to the issue of transparency, which is related to what you just said. You and President Clinton have been very clear about your desire to testify publicly before this committee. In fact, on February 5th, 2026, you posted on social media, "If you want this fight at Rep James Comer, let's have it in public. You love to talk about transparency. There is nothing more transparent than a public hearing, camera's on." Secretary Clinton, why is it important for you to testify before this committee in a public setting?
Secretary Clinton (02:12:54):
Well, first of all, I believe in public testimony. I believe that the public has a right to know what its elected members of Congress are investigating and legislating. Having served for eight years, I think it is useful as a member to do a hearing in public, because you're going to learn things by the coverage of it, by the response that you get from people. This hearing, if it were in public, maybe somebody your question about intelligence, maybe somebody watching it would have said, "Oh my gosh, I just remembered having a conversation with Foreign Minister X or Prime Minister Y, and that person mentioned Jeffrey Epstein."
(02:13:38)
Most people are not going to look at the video. They're not going to read the transcript, but they will follow a live public hearing. So I think it actually enhances the work that those of us who've been privileged to serve are doing and can do. So to me, it is just an absolute prerequisite for doing the kind of legislative and investigative work as effectively as possible by doing it in public.
Speaker 12 (02:14:08):
And did you know that you would be photographed today?
Secretary Clinton (02:14:12):
No.
Speaker 12 (02:14:13):
And is that at all part of what you had understood about the terms of the agreement for today's deposition?
Secretary Clinton (02:14:19):
Well, I will confess that I had some concerns about whether the majority on the committee would treat me fairly and would fairly convey what I say and what I did and how I looked and how I responded. So yes, I did have a concern. And when we learned about the photos being taken, not by a staff member, but by a member, it was shocking and very disappointing. So if it were in public, we wouldn't have that debate. Everybody could see the same thing that the Congresswoman saw. I'm sitting here, sometimes I'm smiling, sometimes I'm frowning, sometimes I look good, sometimes I don't. That's all in public. Everybody can have the same view rather than an angled photo and all the rest of it. So it was disappointing and I regret that it happened and it violated your rules, but that's not the real concern I have. The real concern is get busy. Focus on the people that have something to tell you, that can tell you about intelligence, money and crimes, and get them before you and whenever possible, do it in public.
Speaker 12 (02:15:29):
And finally, do you think that Donald Trump should be deposed by this committee?
Secretary Clinton (02:15:32):
Absolutely. I was a lawyer, and as a lawyer you would look for pattern and practice. If you were deposing a witness in a case that you were trying, if you were in court, what did you know about this person? What you knew could influence how you question that person, how you tried the case. Donald Trump has been held civilly liable for sexual assault by a jury of his peers. Nine members of a jury found him liable in the sexual assault of E. Jean Carroll. That is behavior, that fits a pattern if one were looking for a pattern. He has also been convicted on 34 felony counts for attempting to hide his relationship with a escort, and then to commit business fraud to prevent it from becoming public in the 2016 campaign, which was ultimately election interference.
(02:16:49)
So if I were running the committee or I were involved in this investigation, I would be looking for people who maybe had some prior conduct that might be relevant to either money or crimes. And yes, I think that it would be in keeping with the scope of the investigation of this committee to set up a deposition with President Trump. I know he's been deposed many, many, many times, he's taken the Fifth Amendment many, many hundreds of times, so I'm not saying you're going to get a lot of information, but given what's in the files and given past and prior conduct, he would be on my witness list.
Speaker 12 (02:17:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (02:17:43):
We can go off the record.
(02:17:52)
All right. We'll go back on the record. It is 2:49 PM. I believe Chairman Comer has something he would like to say.
Chairman Comer (02:18:02):
Yes. And thank you, Madam Secretary, and we appreciate what you said in the last round of question. I want to be very clear, this committee is taking this investigation very seriously. We are following the money. We have a history of doing that over the past two years. I wrote the Treasury Department requesting suspicious activity reports related to Jeffrey Epstein. Treasury has been in full compliance, and our staff has spent untold hours reviewing those documents. I know the minority staff have also reviewed those documents. Anytime we subpoena anything, both sides get it.
(02:18:35)
Based on the suspicious activity reports, I then issued subpoenas to two banks, Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan. Those two banks are also in compliance and continue to produce thousands of pages of records. And I will say this before I turn it over to Representative Mace. This investigation is made very difficult when witnesses drag out negotiations for more than six months and violate their duly issued subpoena. So that's one reason when we're dealing with very powerful people that have the best attorneys out there, it's very difficult when it takes six months to get witnesses in. So I just wanted to mention that, then I'll yield to Ms. Mace.
Nancy Mace (02:19:15):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madam Secretary, thank you for returning this afternoon. Secretary Clinton, is your husband someone the committee should investigate?
Secretary Clinton (02:19:23):
My husband will be here tomorrow. You'll have a chance to ask him questions.
Nancy Mace (02:19:26):
So my question is, is your husband someone this committee should investigate?
Speaker 14 (02:19:30):
Asked and answered.
Secretary Clinton (02:19:31):
Apparently you are, you've subpoenaed him. He's going to be here tomorrow.
Nancy Mace (02:19:34):
In your testimony before the break, you discussed why you believe President Trump should testify before a committee due to a "pattern of behavior." You testified that a pattern of behavior warrants accountability, so I want to make sure I understand your standard correctly. The pattern of behavior you describe includes being held civilly liable, indictments, sexually deviant behavior, correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:19:55):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (02:19:56):
In 1998, your husband was found civilly liable for sexual misconduct with Paula Jones and settled for $850,000, is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:03):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (02:20:04):
By your standard of pattern of behavior, should your husband testify before this committee?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:08):
He is testifying tomorrow.
Nancy Mace (02:20:10):
On December 19th, 1998, President Clinton was impeached on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice which directly related to his extramarital affair with Monica Lewinsky, is that correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:19):
Yes.
Nancy Mace (02:20:20):
And your husband was impeached for perjury related to sexual behavior, correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:25):
I didn't understand what you said.
Nancy Mace (02:20:26):
Your husband was impeached for perjury related to his sexual behavior?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:30):
He was impeached for several reasons, and then was acquitted in the Senate.
Nancy Mace (02:20:39):
And your husband flew on Jeffrey Epstein's planes 17 to 26 times, correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:44):
He made several trips with different legs on the trip, as I recall.
Nancy Mace (02:20:48):
But he flew on Jeffrey Epstein's planes 17 to 26 times?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:51):
Yes, he did. Mm-hmm.
Nancy Mace (02:20:52):
Were you aware that Secret Service was dropped on some of those flights?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:55):
That is not my understanding.
Nancy Mace (02:20:56):
They were not on some of those flights?
Secretary Clinton (02:20:58):
That is not my understanding.
Nancy Mace (02:20:59):
So your understanding is that Secret Service was on all of the flights that President Clinton was on with Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:21:03):
That is my understanding.
Nancy Mace (02:21:05):
By this standard of behavior, multiple credible accusers, including Juanita Broaddrick, who alleged rape against your husband, your husband was disbarred in Arkansas, lost his law license before the Supreme Court, flew on Epstein's plane dozens of times, visited Epstein's Island, according-
Secretary Clinton (02:21:20):
That is not true. That is absolutely untrue.
Nancy Mace (02:21:24):
Well, there's documentation in the DOJ files. I'm not sure you're aware, your attorneys have told you, but Jeffrey Epstein told one of the victims to lie to investigators, to lie that Bill Clinton was ever on Epstein Island. I can provide that document to your attorneys.
Speaker 15 (02:21:37):
We would like that document, please.
Nancy Mace (02:21:37):
Okay, I can do that.
Speaker 14 (02:21:39):
Counsel, because actually the files say just the opposite. Epstein himself denied he was on the island.
Nancy Mace (02:21:43):
These are FBI notes from an interview with a victim, and I can get you the victim number and the case number and the files. These are notes from a 302 interview.
Speaker 15 (02:21:50):
Are you going to provide those now?
Nancy Mace (02:21:53):
That's not my line of questioning, she brought it up. But I have a document I can get to-
Speaker 15 (02:21:56):
I'm sorry, you're making a representation as to the facts for something that's-
Nancy Mace (02:21:57):
I didn't enter anything as an exhibit.
Speaker 15 (02:22:00):
But it's factually inaccurate.
Nancy Mace (02:22:01):
No, I can give it to you later. I can go find the document, make copies of it and give it to you this afternoon.
Speaker 15 (02:22:05):
Thank you so much.
Nancy Mace (02:22:06):
Okay. By your standard of pattern of behavior, according to documents released by the Department of Justice, your husband appears in photos and swimming pools, hot tubs, aboard Jeffrey Epstein's private plane with unidentified young women. We came here today and you told this committee that a pattern of behavior demands accountability, correct?
Secretary Clinton (02:22:29):
I said that I believe the committee should call anyone who had a substantial pattern and practice of contact with Jeffrey Epstein and his crimes before they came to light-
Nancy Mace (02:22:42):
And does that include your husband?
Secretary Clinton (02:22:43):
... and after they came to light. You're going to have a chance to question him tomorrow.
Nancy Mace (02:22:47):
So I'll ask you again, by the standard you just said in your own words just now, does this standard apply equally to your husband or only President Trump?
Secretary Clinton (02:22:56):
I have said that my husband has been subpoenaed. He will appear. He will answer your questions to the best of his ability. But there is no evidence whatsoever of any connection with Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. And I think that that will be obviously apparent in the questioning.
Nancy Mace (02:23:19):
What makes you so sure of that then? I mean, he's photographed with criminals.
Speaker 14 (02:23:23):
Objection. You're asking her to speculate on something that's not in evidence.
Secretary Clinton (02:23:26):
It is so speculative. I mean, swimming in a pool, sitting in a hot tub, there are millions of people who do that without any improper behavior or certainly committing any crimes. So I think that-
Nancy Mace (02:23:39):
Do you think most of the men are like your husband that did anything wrong by where they're being surrounded by young women giving them massages on Jeffrey's private estate or private plane? Are they all innocent then, just because-
Secretary Clinton (02:23:50):
You are making assumptions in your questions that have not been proven and I don't believe are provable.
Nancy Mace (02:23:55):
Okay. Why did you wait six months to have this hearing today or have this testimony?
Secretary Clinton (02:24:00):
I've answered that. I thought that given the way that other witnesses who were subpoenaed at the same time were being treated, that there was an unfair treatment of both my husband and myself. And I thought that, especially from my perspective, I had very little, if any, information to provide you, and that I could have done it in a sworn statement and you could have moved on to depose somebody else who might have more information that would be beneficial to your investigation.
Nancy Mace (02:24:33):
I have two more questions, then we're going to pass it to Congresswoman Luna. After Jeffrey Epstein was convicted, did it concern you at all that you had taken a substantial amount of money from Jeffrey Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:24:43):
That's an inappropriate assumption. I did not take a substantial amount of money from Jeffrey Epstein. So far as I know, Jeffrey Epstein contributed to the joint committee that was supporting my Senate race in-
Nancy Mace (02:24:57):
Which was how much?
Secretary Clinton (02:24:58):
I believe I was told $20,000.
Nancy Mace (02:25:00):
And you don't consider $20,000 substantial?
Secretary Clinton (02:25:03):
I do not consider it relevant to me, because I have no recollection that I ever knew that he gave any money to the joint committee.
Nancy Mace (02:25:09):
So you didn't talk to your donors that gave $20,000 to your campaign?
Secretary Clinton (02:25:12):
My understanding of the rules back then, is that there was no coordination between the committee and the campaign. So no, I have no recollection of knowing that.
Nancy Mace (02:25:22):
But that doesn't mean you can't speak to your donors. That doesn't prohibit, the law does not prohibit you speaking to that person.
Secretary Clinton (02:25:27):
But I didn't know he was a donor. As far as I knew, he was not a donor until I learned this in preparation for the testimony.
Nancy Mace (02:25:32):
Did it concern you at all that Ghislaine Maxwell was heavily involved with people you knew and were close to?
Secretary Clinton (02:25:38):
I knew people that I knew knew her, yes, that's true.
Nancy Mace (02:25:41):
And you just shrugged, you didn't want to look into it or have any question about it?
Secretary Clinton (02:25:45):
Until her crimes were revealed and she was indicted and tried and convicted, I don't think people knew very much about at all what she was doing.
Nancy Mace (02:25:56):
And then how do you know Howard Lutnick?
Secretary Clinton (02:25:58):
I know Howard Lutnick because when I was senator on 9/11 the firm he headed, Cantor Fitzgerald, suffered the greatest loss of life. As I recall, something like 650 of his employees were murdered by terrorists that day. Howard Lutnick missed being a victim, because he was delayed dropping his child off to kindergarten.
Nancy Mace (02:26:24):
I know that, I asked how you [inaudible 02:26:25].
Speaker 14 (02:26:24):
You asked the question, let her finish.
Secretary Clinton (02:26:24):
You asked the question, I'm going to answer your question.
Nancy Mace (02:26:27):
Now you're going to yell at me?
Secretary Clinton (02:26:27):
This was what I spent my time with doing. I spent my-
Nancy Mace (02:26:30):
You're going to yell at me? I'm a survivor trying to look out for other survivors trying to take care of one another.
Secretary Clinton (02:26:33):
And I was taking care of the people who lost 3,000 lives at the World Trade Center.
Nancy Mace (02:26:38):
I waited six months to get here today, six months, and now you're being defiant and indignant today.
Secretary Clinton (02:26:40):
You asked me about Howard Lutnick.
Nancy Mace (02:26:42):
I have now Epstein survivors, I'm a survivor myself. You have emails, you've denied that you tried to get Jeffrey Epstein to give money to you-
Secretary Clinton (02:26:49):
I did not-
Nancy Mace (02:26:50):
But Howard Lutnick was used to get money-
Secretary Clinton (02:26:51):
If you have an email with me asking Jeffrey Epstein for money-
Nancy Mace (02:26:54):
I have an email from Howard Lutnick sending it to Jeffrey Epstein-
Speaker 14 (02:26:57):
What's the question? What's [inaudible 02:26:58]-
Nancy Mace (02:26:58):
... and his people to raise money for you-
Secretary Clinton (02:26:59):
I don't know about-
Nancy Mace (02:27:00):
... for an event, an intimate event for you at his offices at Cantor Fitzgerald. You just sit here today-
Secretary Clinton (02:27:05):
Well, if you would let me finish-
Nancy Mace (02:27:05):
... and obfuscate and say to this committee, you didn't try to get money from Jeffrey Epstein-
Secretary Clinton (02:27:10):
I didn't, I didn't.
Nancy Mace (02:27:11):
... when there was an intimate event in an email that Howard Lutnick emailed to Epstein's people and Epstein to get him to come to your intimate event at Cantor Fitzgerald, a very small event. And so I'm not going to put up with it, if you want to yell at me, that's fine, but I'll yell right back, okay?
Secretary Clinton (02:27:25):
Well-
Nancy Mace (02:27:26):
I am looking out for survivors.
Secretary Clinton (02:27:26):
Look-
Nancy Mace (02:27:27):
I'm doing the job that you would not do and refused to do as Secretary of State. Thank you, and I yield back to Congresswoman Luna.
Secretary Clinton (02:27:32):
No, I'm going to finish answering the question, which I have a right to do. I am very sympathetic to your personal situation. I have read about it. I have seen you testify or speak on the floor about it, and I very much sympathize with not only what you went through, but appreciate your effort to stand up for survivors. I was a senator representing the people who were murdered on 9/11. Nobody lost more people than Howard Lutnick. You can say whatever you want, you can call them and have them appear before the committee.
Nancy Mace (02:28:09):
[inaudible 02:28:10].
Secretary Clinton (02:28:10):
But I knew him as the man who lost the employees that he knew intimately, including his brother.
Nancy Mace (02:28:22):
And he was a go-between between you and Jeffrey Epstein raising money for you.
Speaker 14 (02:28:23):
Let her finish your answer, please. Let her finish your answer.
Secretary Clinton (02:28:27):
You know what? If you don't want to hear what emotionally affected me, that's fine, but that's why I know Howard Lutnick. I went to the memorial service every 9/11 after the formal service was held with all-
Nancy Mace (02:28:44):
I see what you're doing here. You're obfuscating from the questions.
Secretary Clinton (02:28:44):
...of his people, the families.
Nancy Mace (02:28:45):
He was a go-between between you and Jeffrey Epstein raising money for your campaign.
Secretary Clinton (02:28:46):
Well, Howard Lutnick and I did work together-
Nancy Mace (02:28:46):
Thank you. I will now yield to you, Congresswoman Luna. Thank you.
Secretary Clinton (02:28:47):
... because we have a lot of victims that take care of and we worked together to rebuild downtown Manhattan. That is how I know Howard Lutnick.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:28:48):
[inaudible 02:28:59].
Chairman Comer (02:28:58):
Why don't you move here? Want to get over here?
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:02):
Fine, I'll do the heavy lifting per usual.
Chairman Comer (02:29:07):
[inaudible 02:29:08], I'll move over.
Speaker 16 (02:29:08):
[inaudible 02:29:09].
Chairman Comer (02:29:08):
Yeah.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:08):
[inaudible 02:29:11].
Speaker 16 (02:29:11):
Yep.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:11):
Okay. Am I good?
Chairman Comer (02:29:16):
Ms. Luna, Ms. Luna.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:17):
Secretary Clinton, thank you for being here today.
Secretary Clinton (02:29:19):
Thank you, Congresswoman.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:20):
President Clinton has stated that he severed ties with Epstein around 2005 prior to the 2008 conviction. Were you involved or informed of any communication, emails, calls, or meetings related to distancing the foundation and/or your family after those 2008 convictions?
Secretary Clinton (02:29:37):
I was not.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:29:39):
You had mentioned that this committee had avoided calling people to testify who should be sitting here. I would like to show you some emails. If the staff could please pass out to the members and the secretary, EFTA 00878421 and EFTA 00705860, please, so she can see it.
Speaker 16 (02:29:57):
This will be Exhibit 14 and 15 for the majority.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:30:01):
I'll wait till you get them so you can see them.
Secretary Clinton (02:30:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (02:30:02):
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yes, we want... Are there two separate?
Anna Paulina Luna (02:30:19):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (02:30:29):
Thank you. And I'm going to pass them down because I have more for my colleagues. Yep, one more here.
Speaker 16 (02:30:29):
Sure.
Speaker 15 (02:30:29):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 14 (02:30:30):
[inaudible 02:30:32].
Speaker 15 (02:30:33):
They're the same. There's two different documents there.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:30:35):
Yeah, they're two emails, both different EFTAs. Secretary Clinton, would you please read EFTA 00705860? You don't have to read from... It's to Jeffrey Epstein, but can you read the context of the email?
Speaker 15 (02:30:50):
Sorry, could you state the number again? Is the number at the bottom?
Anna Paulina Luna (02:30:51):
Yes, it's at the bottom. It's EFTA 00705860.
Speaker 14 (02:30:56):
This is majority 14?
Speaker 16 (02:30:58):
14, yes, sir.
Secretary Clinton (02:31:00):
" Thank you for a fun night. Your littlest girl was a little naughty."
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:05):
How does that make you feel?
Secretary Clinton (02:31:07):
It makes me sick.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:09):
If you can also read the EFTA 00878421. This is also another email. Can you just please provide the context? It's an email to Jeffrey Epstein. If you could just read the context of what it is.
Secretary Clinton (02:31:27):
"Of course, the OH Jesus, Ohio Jesus-
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:32):
Oh Jesus.
Secretary Clinton (02:31:33):
... I'm coming trick."
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:35):
And just the main body of the context of the email.
Secretary Clinton (02:31:37):
Oh, "Said that she felt God's presence next to her when she was in bed. She knows that Jesus watches over her. And he helped save her life. Whoops."
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:46):
How does that make you feel?
Secretary Clinton (02:31:47):
It's bizarre. I don't know what it means.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:31:50):
The reason I asked you to read both of these is because these emails were both sent by co-conspirators that were then given the plea deals and now have been given victim status. Both of these women were also named on an FBI document, and then they're on a number of other emails. Do you believe that the Department of Justice should reevaluate the plea deals for some of these women, given that as you can see, they have clearly done some things probably that they shouldn't have?
Secretary Clinton (02:32:28):
I don't know the status of whether that would be legally possible, so I have no opinion.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:32:35):
I think outside of the statute of limitations, they might be able to re-investigate under the civil rights violations. Would you be in favor of that or looking into any of the co-conspirators that were given plea deals down to victim status if there's credible evidence that they were trafficking young girls?
Secretary Clinton (02:32:50):
I think it should be pursued.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:32:56):
Okay. Hold on. I'd like to also show you another EFTA if the staff can also pass this to the secretary. It's EFTA 01656217.
Speaker 16 (02:33:06):
This would be Exhibit 16 for the majority.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:33:08):
And I'd also like to reflect on those previous EFTAs. The EFTA 00705860, that was actually sent by a woman by the name of Susan Hamlin. And then the other EFTA 00878421 was sent by a woman named Nadia, who's also listed in other files as well.
Speaker 15 (02:33:35):
Is it the single pages?
Anna Paulina Luna (02:33:35):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 15 (02:33:38):
Oh, sorry. [inaudible 02:33:42].
Anna Paulina Luna (02:33:44):
Secretary Clinton, this was actually out of an FBI briefing document when Epstein was in his New York trial. If you can look at the top left, the individual photo, who is that individual?
Secretary Clinton (02:34:00):
I can't tell, it's such a small, blurry picture.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:34:03):
Okay. For those that want to pull up the file, the photos of Jeffrey Epstein, this is actually a passport that was given. The individual's name is Marcus Robert Fortelni. Do you think that this is a sign or a telltale sign of intelligence, operations and pseudo names?
Secretary Clinton (02:34:22):
I can't speculate. I don't know.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:34:26):
Okay. Victims have stated to this committee, both Democrats and Republicans, that during Epstein's time, during his day camp [inaudible 02:34:33] is what I'll call it, that he was also in active communication with Bush's CIA director. They also had stated that he had active ties to Russia, Israel, and Iran. Given your status, not just as a First Lady, but also in your secretary position, have you ever been targeted by any of these countries as a means of a foreign intelligence gathering operation? Are you aware of potential vulnerabilities [inaudible 02:34:58]?
Secretary Clinton (02:34:58):
Yeah, I was targeted by Russia in the 2016 campaign. I mean, I think that's pretty well known and-
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:03):
And what about Israel or Iran?
Secretary Clinton (02:35:05):
I don't know about either Israel or Iran.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:09):
Okay. Do you believe that Epstein was running potentially a honeypot operation with intelligence gathering operations to collect information on high profile individuals, both Democrat and Republican of the United States in an effort to sway our foreign policies? Is it possible?
Secretary Clinton (02:35:24):
I have no direct knowledge, but I think it's one of the areas your committee should investigate.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:29):
Do you think it's possible?
Secretary Clinton (02:35:30):
Well, it's certainly possible. It's a tried and true technique of certain intelligence agencies.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:36):
Do you believe that he was using honeypots in effort to [inaudible 02:35:40]?
Secretary Clinton (02:35:39):
I can't speculate. I don't know.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:41):
Okay. And on the topic of transparency, Secretary, were you ever denied access or did you ever inquire on the topic of UAP or Gilgamesh in your official or personal capacity and why?
Secretary Clinton (02:35:51):
I was never denied access because I never asked for access.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:35:56):
Okay. In the efforts of having a transparent government and restoring faith within our country, do you believe that the American people deserve access to those topics?
Secretary Clinton (02:36:07):
I do. Subject to any national security implications, I think the information should be made available. I think that's been ordered, or at least I read that it had been ordered.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:36:19):
And lastly, before I yield my time, Chairman Comer, do you believe that you were personally a target of an intelligence gathering operation specifically pertaining to Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:36:28):
I have no reason to believe that. I don't have any information.
Anna Paulina Luna (02:36:31):
Okay. Thank you, Chairman. I yield my time.
Chairman Comer (02:36:32):
Thank you. Representative Fallon?
Pat Fallon (02:36:34):
[inaudible 02:36:35].
Chairman Comer (02:36:35):
Yeah. Can you get in front of me enough?
Pat Fallon (02:36:43):
Well, it doesn't matter.
Chairman Comer (02:36:43):
Okay. All right, good.
Pat Fallon (02:36:43):
[inaudible 02:36:55].
Secretary Clinton (02:36:55):
Hi. Could you identify yourself [inaudible 02:36:57]?
Pat Fallon (02:36:56):
Yeah, sure, sure. Pat Fallon, 4th District of Texas.
Secretary Clinton (02:37:00):
Pat Fallon? Okay.
Pat Fallon (02:37:00):
Native of Massachusetts, but no one would vote for me there. I moved to Texas. So ma'am, I'm a pretty simple guy, I just want to keep things simple and just ask you some questions and give you a chance to respond. So July 25th an unanimous Oversight subcommittee voted to subpoena yourself and your husband. On the 25th of August, Chairman Comer issued a lawful subpoena, which I would think it's fair to say you didn't cooperate. There was a lot of delays. It was August, we're now in February. The deposition was set in December, then it was delayed and moved to January, and now here we are in February. We all get accused of things. The higher you go up on the ladder, the more people are accused of things. If I don't have anything to hide, I'm eager to come in and testify. I just find that interesting, why the delay for six months?
Secretary Clinton (02:37:48):
Well, I think as I've said, we negotiated in good faith, and I believe the committee negotiated in good faith for a while, because we thought, at least I'll speak for myself, that I could provide whatever information I had, which was not much, in the same form that you accepted it from former attorneys general and FBI directors who had much more direct knowledge or could have had much more direct knowledge about the investigation you were conducting. And I found it bewildering that I couldn't provide what I knew in writing under penalty of perjury as others had done.
Pat Fallon (02:38:33):
Okay. I'd say better late than ever, so I'm glad you are here. In September of 22, ABC program, The View had you as a guest and you were quoted as saying, "No one is above the law." Still agree with that?
Secretary Clinton (02:38:44):
I agree with that.
Pat Fallon (02:38:45):
As do I. And I think Senator Clinton, that's why you're here.
Secretary Clinton (02:38:49):
I absolutely agree with that.
Pat Fallon (02:38:50):
When did you first meet Jeffrey Epstein?
Secretary Clinton (02:38:52):
I never met Jeffrey Epstein.
Pat Fallon (02:38:53):
You never met? Okay. When did you first meet Ghislaine Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (02:38:59):
I have no recollection of when I first met her.
Pat Fallon (02:39:02):
So you might have met her, but you don't remember?
Secretary Clinton (02:39:03):
I do not.
Pat Fallon (02:39:04):
Okay. So you'd obviously describe your relationship as pretty much nonexistent with both of them then?
Secretary Clinton (02:39:08):
Yeah, I had at least a casual acquaintance with her. I had nothing with him.
Pat Fallon (02:39:13):
Okay. Would you describe your husband's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein as limited, cordial, close?
Secretary Clinton (02:39:19):
Limited for a limited period of time with respect to using his airplane.
Pat Fallon (02:39:24):
Okay. And how about your husband's relationship with Ms. Maxwell?
Secretary Clinton (02:39:28):
I think that they knew each other for a longer period of time.
Pat Fallon (02:39:31):
Okay. So just for the record, in 1992, Epstein donated a grand to your husband's presidential campaign in '93, 10 grand to the White House Historical Association while you were in the White House and your husband were. And then he visited the White House, as we've said, I think ad nauseum 17 times from '93 to '95. And then in '99, a $20,000 donation to the Senate campaign or an affiliate allied campaign. And then in 2006, 25 grand to the
Pat Fallon (02:40:00):
Clinton Foundation. And then post Clinton presidency, your husband was on the plane somewhere in the neighborhood of 26 times. Right?
Hillary Clinton (02:40:09):
I can't vouch for everything you're going to say. I can't vouch for..
Pat Fallon (02:40:13):
All right, but you're not disputing it vehemently.
Hillary Clinton (02:40:15):
No, I'm not accepting it, but I can't vouch for it. I can't respond to it.
Pat Fallon (02:40:21):
Okay. All right. In 2008, Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of two felony counts, correct?
Hillary Clinton (02:40:27):
Were they felonies? I don't recall.
Pat Fallon (02:40:29):
They were federal felonies. Yeah.
Hillary Clinton (02:40:30):
Were they felonies?
Speaker 17 (02:40:31):
They were state felonies.
Hillary Clinton (02:40:32):
State felonies. Okay.
Pat Fallon (02:40:34):
Felonies nonetheless. Okay. So just bear with me on this because, again, give you a chance to respond. Your husband ran for governor five times. The last time in '90 or '86, I think he got almost a half a million votes. In '92, he got 45 million votes, 47 million in '96. When you ran in 08, you got nearly 20 million in the primary. And he was governor, you were senator, Secretary of State, he was president. You've met hundreds of thousands of people probably, way more than the average typical person would. And my point here is all these millions of people that supported you and your husband, hundreds of thousands that you met... In 2010, one of the most significant events of your life is going to be your daughter's, your only daughter's wedding. You have 500 wedding guests from all reports. That means... And there's a groom involved, so you're distilling down to 250. Only 250 people can attend. And it's your testimony that... How did Ms. Maxwell end up at the wedding?
Hillary Clinton (02:41:30):
She was the guest of Ted Waite, who was a longtime friend of our family.
Pat Fallon (02:41:34):
So it was just an odd coincidence that she was at one of the most... Oh, I mean, that's fine. If that's your testimony, that's your testimony.
Hillary Clinton (02:41:42):
I was not telling my dates who their guest could... Or my guests who their dates could be.
Pat Fallon (02:41:45):
It's just an odd coincidence. Okay. See, would you describe your husband as a smart guy?
Speaker 4 (02:41:51):
Excuse me. Are you asking her to testify about her husband?
Pat Fallon (02:41:53):
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (02:41:54):
Because he's going to be here tomorrow. So you can ask questions to the witness that is for her, but it seems to me that you are asking questions that are... Require an opinion. Can you ask a question that is...
Pat Fallon (02:42:04):
How long have you been married? Can I ask that?
Hillary Clinton (02:42:06):
Oh, do I have to answer that? 50 years.
Pat Fallon (02:42:09):
He's a pretty smart guy by all accounts, would you agree with that? Highly intelligent. I think he is. I didn't vote for him, but I think he is.
Hillary Clinton (02:42:16):
Then I will...
Pat Fallon (02:42:17):
We can agree on that? I mean, I don't think that's controversial, counselor, because everybody that I've ever met that has met your husband and has firsthand experience describes him as the smartest guy in the room when you're in the room. Very smart, scary recall. If he meets you 20 years later, he remembers what you wore, what they were saying, which is a great tool and asset when you're a politician. So with this great recall, I'm sure it served him well in his political career.
(02:42:43)
So given... I just find it surprising that in January 26th, y'all sent a joint letter from you and him where he asserted that he, quote, "Didn't recall encountering Mr. Epstein or any specific interactions with him while in office."
Hillary Clinton (02:42:57):
That was his recollection.
Pat Fallon (02:42:59):
Okay. But even though we've established that he was in the White House, Epstein, I'm talking about, 17 times, and there's a public report that there were personal tours given, not only in the White House, but even the residence, and somebody that smart just happened not to remember any of it...
Speaker 17 (02:43:12):
This witness can answer questions about her own declaration, about what she recalls or knew. Again, the president is going to be here tomorrow.
Pat Fallon (02:43:19):
All right. Well, your client talked about patterns in practice, and Bill Clinton, her husband, said that he doesn't remember meeting Epstein during his time in office, took trips with him or took trips on his plane to New York, England, Japan, China, Singapore, Bangkok, Brunei, Rwanda, Mozambique, South Africa, France, Norway, and many more. So it's really not a question of where they went together, but where they didn't go together. Do you know the colloquial name for Little St. James Island?
Hillary Clinton (02:43:52):
No.
Pat Fallon (02:43:53):
It's Epstein Island, okay? I'll refer to it in both contexts. To your knowledge, did your husband ever visit Little St. James Island?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:03):
Not to my knowledge.
Pat Fallon (02:44:04):
Okay. Do you know who Doug Band is?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:06):
He worked for my husband, yes.
Pat Fallon (02:44:08):
So by reports on the press, he was a key architect of the Bill Clinton post-presidency, a top aide, the body man, the fixer, counselor and close advisor. Would you disagree with any of those?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:19):
He worked for him in a number of capacities.
Pat Fallon (02:44:21):
About 10 years, '02 to '12, I think it was.
Hillary Clinton (02:44:23):
He worked for him... I don't know.
Pat Fallon (02:44:26):
Fair to say give or take a decade? Okay. He's on the record as asserting that Mr. Clinton did indeed visit Epstein Island. Do you think he's lying?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:34):
Yes.
Pat Fallon (02:44:35):
Okay. Why would he lie?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:36):
I don't know. You'd have to ask him.
Pat Fallon (02:44:38):
Okay. And then, you know Virginia? Have you heard of Virginia? I'm sure you didn't meet her, but have you heard of Virginia Giuffre?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:44):
I've heard about her in the press coverage.
Pat Fallon (02:44:46):
I didn't ever meet her. She was a victim of Epstein. Tragically, she didn't survive. She's no longer with us. She testified under oath that she saw Mr. Clinton on Epstein Island two separate occasions. You think she's lying?
Hillary Clinton (02:44:57):
I have no information whatsoever that he was ever on the island.
Pat Fallon (02:45:04):
And just trying to be fair, why do you think that is? I mean, that's my question.
Hillary Clinton (02:45:08):
I'm not going to offer opinions.
Pat Fallon (02:45:09):
All right. That's fair.
Hillary Clinton (02:45:09):
I don't have any information.
Pat Fallon (02:45:11):
Further, to your point earlier about practices and patterns, now there's a third person, Steve Scully. Have you ever heard of him?
Hillary Clinton (02:45:17):
Who?
Pat Fallon (02:45:17):
Steve Scully.
Hillary Clinton (02:45:19):
Steve Scully?
Pat Fallon (02:45:20):
Yes.
Hillary Clinton (02:45:21):
I know of a Steve Scully by... Who was at Apple.
Pat Fallon (02:45:27):
Well, he was an IT contractor on the infamous aforementioned island. He also asserts that he saw Mr. Clinton, and this is a quote from him, "Lounging around the porch area of Little St. James villa." It's just oddly specific. Do you think this third person was lying as well?
Hillary Clinton (02:45:43):
I don't know information about Mr. Scully.
Pat Fallon (02:45:46):
I wanted to ask you that because I find that odd. It's a pattern and practice, as you mentioned. Have you ever visited Epstein Island or Little St. James Island?
Hillary Clinton (02:45:53):
No.
Pat Fallon (02:45:54):
Okay. So just to be clear, it is your testimony that, for instance, you never flew in a private plane, flew into St. Thomas Airport, and then didn't enter the terminal, but instead boarded a helicopter to Little St. James Island. You never did that?
Hillary Clinton (02:46:07):
I did not.
Pat Fallon (02:46:14):
Okay. So Virginia Giuffre, who we just talked about, who we all found highly credible, I think, in a bipartisan manner, stated that Mr. Clinton walked into Vanity Fair and threatened them and that they better not write an expose detailing the crimes of "his good friend, Jeffrey Epstein." Do you find that troubling at all?
Hillary Clinton (02:46:32):
I find it not believable.
Pat Fallon (02:46:33):
Okay. Let's turn to the current administration President because you said some pretty choice words of the administration and President Trump, aggressive and even some coupled with incendiary claims about President Trump and his DOJ. Fair to say that you would not describe them as transparent?
Hillary Clinton (02:46:52):
I would not describe him as transparent.
Pat Fallon (02:46:54):
Okay. How about you, were an enthusiastic supporter of Joe Biden and Vice President Harris when each of them respectively ran for president?
Hillary Clinton (02:47:01):
I was.
Pat Fallon (02:47:03):
Okay. Would you describe the Biden-Harris administration as an administration that was committed to transparency?
Hillary Clinton (02:47:08):
To the best of their ability.
Pat Fallon (02:47:09):
Okay. You also asserted, and if I get this wrong, please let me know, or at least insinuated that President Trump was closer to Epstein than your husband socially.
Hillary Clinton (02:47:23):
I think there's an enormous amount of evidence that goes back many, many years demonstrating their relationship.
Pat Fallon (02:47:30):
Okay. Do you know how many times Jeffrey Epstein visited the Trump 45 White House?
Hillary Clinton (02:47:36):
I do not know.
Pat Fallon (02:47:37):
By all accounts in evidence, zero. And how many times did he visit the Clinton White House?
Hillary Clinton (02:47:42):
I don't know.
Pat Fallon (02:47:43):
It was 17 times. How much did Jeffrey Epstein ever donate to Donald Trump politically?
Hillary Clinton (02:47:50):
I have no idea.
Pat Fallon (02:47:51):
There was zero, but we have established that he donated to either you or your husband or your committees 21 grand. Agree?
Hillary Clinton (02:48:00):
I have no information that is personally based about their relationship.
Pat Fallon (02:48:10):
Jeffrey Epstein donated $35,000 to foundations. One was a $10,000 donation to the White House Historical Society in '93 when the Clintons, your family, was in the White House. He donated... And then there was that 2006 donation to the Clinton Foundation. He's donated, similarly to the Trump White House, never. No foundations either. How many pages of the Epstein files were released by the oversight committee in 2021 to '23 when the Democrats were in the majority?
Hillary Clinton (02:48:37):
I have no idea.
Pat Fallon (02:48:38):
It was zero.
Hillary Clinton (02:48:38):
But there was also an ongoing investigation of, I believe, Ghislaine Maxwell during that time period.
Pat Fallon (02:48:50):
So the answer is, I can share with you, was zero. How many pages did the Biden Department of Justice release from the Epstein files from '21 and '25?
Hillary Clinton (02:48:59):
I have no personal information. I have read that because of the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell, that that was not done, but I have no personal information.
Pat Fallon (02:49:10):
Yeah. Okay. Well, that was zero and that ended quite a bit ago, a little bit ago now. There were no images and there were no videos. When you compare the GOP oversight committee, when we took over in January '23, to present, there were 65,000 documents that had been released. And then how many videos? There was nothing under the Biden administration. There was no images as well. There's been 180,000 images, 2,000 videos, and now over three million pages. So when you compare them, that's an odd definition of who's transparent and who isn't.
(02:49:44)
Last thing. We have established that there's a $20,000 donation that Jeffrey Epstein made to an affiliated allied campaign to get you elected to the presidency. Have you returned that or donated that? He got convicted in 2008 of two felony counts, have you ever returned that $20,000?
Hillary Clinton (02:50:10):
It didn't come to my campaign. I was not in charge of it.
Pat Fallon (02:50:12):
So you've never donated that to charity? That's...
Hillary Clinton (02:50:15):
I've donated many, many hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Speaker 17 (02:50:19):
Congressman, I'd like to know the facts in the record that shows Jeffrey Epstein donated to her presidential campaign.
Hillary Clinton (02:50:25):
No, he's talking about the Senate campaign, I think.
Pat Fallon (02:50:26):
Yeah, I'm sorry. They're not privileged.
Hillary Clinton (02:50:29):
Oh.
Pat Fallon (02:50:30):
Yeah. 1998 was the Senate. You're right. I stand corrected. I think that would be a nice suggestion.
Speaker 17 (02:50:35):
Next up, Representative Cloud from Texas.
Hillary Clinton (02:50:49):
Hi. Could you identify yourself?
Rep. Cloud (02:50:50):
Michael Cloud, Texas, 27th.
Hillary Clinton (02:50:53):
Michael...
Rep. Cloud (02:50:53):
Cloud, C-L-O-U-D.
Hillary Clinton (02:50:56):
Okay.
Rep. Cloud (02:50:56):
And thank you for being here, Madam Secretary. You were asked if Jeffrey Epstein played a role in shaping the Clinton Global Initiative. Is it correct to say that you have mentioned that you do not know whether this was the case or not?
Hillary Clinton (02:51:10):
I have no information.
Rep. Cloud (02:51:12):
We have a letter, of course, from Epstein's lawyer stating that he was, and I quote, "Was part of the original group that conceived the Clinton Global Initiative." If you do not know, who would know?
Hillary Clinton (02:51:26):
I don't know because I was not involved.
Rep. Cloud (02:51:29):
You don't know who was involved in the beginning?
Hillary Clinton (02:51:30):
Well, my husband obviously was involved.
Rep. Cloud (02:51:32):
So your husband would know at least?
Hillary Clinton (02:51:34):
Well, you certainly can ask him.
Rep. Cloud (02:51:35):
Okay. Similarly, you've mentioned that you do not know how funds were recruited at the Clinton Global Initiative. Is that an accurate understanding of your testimony today?
Hillary Clinton (02:51:45):
No. Donations were made, lots of donations. Many individuals, groups, businesses, philanthropies have donated to the Clinton Global Initiative.
Rep. Cloud (02:51:56):
Sure. Yeah. What was the process of recruiting those donations, I guess? Or what's your understanding of it or your involvement in it?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:04):
Some of it was spontaneous. Some of it was through the team that helps to raise money. It's a combination of supporting charitable work.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:14):
Do you know if Jeffrey Epstein was involved in helping find donors, recruit donors?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:18):
I have no reason to believe that. I don't know.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:21):
You don't know if he was involved in donor relations in any way?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:24):
I have no, as I say, reason to believe it, but I don't know.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:28):
Do you know who would know?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:29):
The people who were involved in raising the money. But I was not involved with CGI in those early years.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:38):
What about when you were there?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:42):
I have no knowledge that Jeffrey Epstein was involved at all.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:46):
How many, roughly, staff members are there in the Clinton Global Initiative?
Hillary Clinton (02:52:52):
It has varied over the years, but hundreds.
Rep. Cloud (02:52:57):
And involved with donor relations?
Hillary Clinton (02:53:01):
Dozens, I suppose.
Rep. Cloud (02:53:02):
Dozens? Okay. As best as we know, it's been public reported that in 2024, Ghislaine Maxwell, or Ghislaine, I think is how it's pronounced, arranged and wired $1 million to Publicis Groupe for the inaugural CGI event, referring to it internally as "the Clinton project". Epstein was copied on related emails and questioned the timing and destinations of the funds. Were you aware of this $1 million payment?
Hillary Clinton (02:53:33):
I was not.
Rep. Cloud (02:53:36):
Were you aware of it before today?
Hillary Clinton (02:53:37):
No. Well, in preparing for this.
Rep. Cloud (02:53:39):
In preparation, you were made known. Okay. Do you know who would have known?
Hillary Clinton (02:53:45):
I don't even know if it's true, so I have no way of telling you.
Rep. Cloud (02:53:48):
You don't know who at the Clinton Global Initiative, what staff would have handled million dollar donors or build relationships?
Hillary Clinton (02:53:56):
It didn't go. It went to a group called Publicis, which is not the Clinton Global Initiatives, so I would not know.
Rep. Cloud (02:54:05):
Well, the email said it was for the Clinton project.
Hillary Clinton (02:54:08):
First of all, I have no idea whether that's true. And secondly, it went to a third party.
Rep. Cloud (02:54:14):
Okay. Maxwell was honored and given complimentary access at the 2013 CGI conference for "ocean conservation work" years after public allegations against her and Epstein were public. Were you involved in approving participants or honorees at the CGI events?
Hillary Clinton (02:54:34):
I was not, but I don't know that there were public allegations at that point in time, so I can't respond to that.
Rep. Cloud (02:54:43):
So you were not involved in approval?
Hillary Clinton (02:54:47):
I was not.
Rep. Cloud (02:54:48):
You didn't know who was going to be honored at the events?
Hillary Clinton (02:54:50):
No, I was not.
Rep. Cloud (02:54:52):
Okay. Do you know who would have known?
Hillary Clinton (02:54:54):
Whoever was the staff at the time, but there's been a lot of staff turnover over 20 plus years.
Rep. Cloud (02:55:01):
A number of things you've mentioned today you've mentioned you have not been able to recall, and that's understandable. Is it possible that any of the information that you have not been able to recall would have been found in the 30,000 emails that went missing?
Hillary Clinton (02:55:21):
No, I don't believe so. I had no reason to believe that. So it's not that I'm not recalling things that were there, I don't recall at all.
Rep. Cloud (02:55:31):
Very good. Unfortunately I have to catch a flight. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 17 (02:55:36):
Next will be Representative Timmons from South Carolina.
Rep. Timmons (02:55:37):
Madam Secretary, William Timmons from South Carolina. Thanks for being here today.
(02:55:50)
Throughout this deposition, you've seemed to be a bit incredulous, indignant about being here. Do you think it's inappropriate, it seems? I guess I just want to highlight all of the reasons that I see you being here and ask you if you don't think that that justifies your presence. I mean... So we started out this deposition by asking you about a number of individuals, 50 plus individuals, and the specific question was whether you had spoken to them regarding Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. So I'm going to highlight four and I'm going to tell you why we asked you about them. So do you know Senator Bob Carey?
Hillary Clinton (02:56:28):
I do know Senator Bob Carey.
Rep. Timmons (02:56:29):
Okay. And was he not the chair of the Democrat Senatorial Committee when you got elected to the Senate?
Hillary Clinton (02:56:41):
I thought it was Bob Toricelli, but I could be wrong.
Rep. Timmons (02:56:41):
Okay. Well, he was the chair of the DSCC for the eight years prior to you getting there. He'd left office when you got sworn in. But obviously there's a lot of overlap. He's a prominent member. He resigned in disgrace because of his association with Jeffrey Epstein. So there's a community of property. He's in your orbit. He had to resign. Next person is Casey Wasserman.
Speaker 4 (02:57:04):
Excuse me, Mister...
Rep. Timmons (02:57:05):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:57:06):
Representative. Was Bob Carey one of the names that was listed?
Rep. Timmons (02:57:09):
Bob Carey was...
Hillary Clinton (02:57:10):
He wasn't listed in the original list that Counsel read.
Speaker 4 (02:57:13):
The list that was shared with the witness, I don't see that name.
Rep. Timmons (02:57:16):
My apologies. He was not listed. If he was not listed...
Hillary Clinton (02:57:18):
No, he was not.
Speaker 4 (02:57:20):
I was just seeking that clarification.
Rep. Timmons (02:57:21):
Thank you.
(02:57:23)
Casey Wasserman. Do you know Casey Wasserman?
Hillary Clinton (02:57:25):
I do.
Rep. Timmons (02:57:26):
Okay. And was he a former trustee of the Clinton Foundation?
Hillary Clinton (02:57:31):
I don't know. He wasn't during the time that I was involved.
Rep. Timmons (02:57:35):
Okay. Well, it is alleged that he was a former trustee of the Clinton Foundation and he also had to resign in disgrace from his company, and obviously there's an association there. Do you know Larry Summers?
Hillary Clinton (02:57:46):
I do know Larry Summers.
Rep. Timmons (02:57:47):
Okay. And he was obviously former treasury secretary, campaign advisor. Apparently he didn't give you good advice, but y'all obviously have a longstanding relationship. He also was forced to resign in disgraced because of his association with Jeffrey Epstein.
Hillary Clinton (02:58:00):
Yeah, but I've never talked to these people about...
Rep. Timmons (02:58:02):
I understand, but you understand, you were the Secretary of State, you were the first lady and you were a United States Senator and you have all of this power and influence and these connections, and when there's just this enormous amount of smoke that I'm going to go over, it is appropriate for us to then ask you questions because we're trying to get to the bottom of this to make sure it doesn't happen again and to hold people accountable. It might not be you.
Hillary Clinton (02:58:21):
But all of the people you just read, it seems to me, should have been ahead of me being subpoenaed than me, but that's okay. I'm here and I want to keep plowing forward.
Rep. Timmons (02:58:29):
Do you know George Mitchell?
Hillary Clinton (02:58:30):
I, of course, knew George Mitchell.
Rep. Timmons (02:58:32):
Okay. Obviously he also had to resign in disgrace. That was the purpose of the people that we were trying to get your associations with. So obviously, I'm not going to go over this too much in length, but I've been in Congress for seven years and I've only been in the White House, I don't know, a dozen times. Jeffrey Epstein doesn't even live in DC and he went to the White House 17 times in two years, so that causes us to wonder what's going on there. Obviously, President Clinton flew on the Lolita Express over two dozen times. That gives us more questions. He is your husband, so we are just curious about all of these things, and that's the purpose of this.
(02:59:12)
You say... The fact that Jeffrey Epstein donated $20,000 to the joint fundraising committee, you were not allowed to solicit that, but it is record of who gave money. And so you would... If somebody gave $20,000 to my JFC, I would know eventually, and I would say thank you. You never thanked him for his contribution.
Hillary Clinton (02:59:32):
Not that I'm aware of. First time I knew about it is when I was preparing for this testimony.
Rep. Timmons (02:59:37):
Obviously all the members of Congress have to deal with fundraising, it's probably the worst part of the job, but generally speaking, when people give you a large amount of money, you say thank you, so I think, again...
Hillary Clinton (02:59:47):
They didn't give it to me. They gave it to the joint committee, and I...
Rep. Timmons (02:59:50):
The JFC has disclosure requirements and you'd be able to tell and it was for your behalf to get you elected. So again, I mean...
Speaker 17 (02:59:57):
Please let the witness finish.
Hillary Clinton (02:59:58):
It's okay.
Speaker 17 (02:59:58):
You're cutting her off.
Hillary Clinton (03:00:00):
I've told you all I know, which is that I did not know.
Rep. Timmons (03:00:04):
There's dozens of pieces of information that create a pattern, and you're here because that pattern causes us to have questions to understand.
Hillary Clinton (03:00:11):
Well, what are your questions? Did I know anything about his crimes? I've told you, no, I did not. Did I know anything about her crimes? No, I did not. Was I in a position of responsibility to investigate those crimes? No, I was not.
Rep. Timmons (03:00:27):
Again, there's a pattern. You gave the best line of the deposition, patterns. Lawyers look at patterns to try to assess veracity and classify information to understand truth, and so we are here trying to seek truth. And we appreciate you being here, but it is appropriate for us to ask you questions about all these things. Jeffrey Epstein used the Clinton...
Hillary Clinton (03:00:49):
And you have been all day, and I will try to the best of my ability...
Rep. Timmons (03:00:50):
And we're about done.
Hillary Clinton (03:00:51):
... to keep answering them.
Rep. Timmons (03:00:53):
Trust me, your husband's going to have a much worse day tomorrow. The Clinton Global Initiative was used in the plea... Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers used Epstein's role in facilitating the Clinton Global Initiative to justify his plea deal. That was entered into evidence earlier. Obviously, Ghislaine Maxwell has alleged that this is part of one of her successes to facilitate setting it up, and there's been reports that a million dollars was wired for the launch party. So there's just all of this data, all of these different pieces of information that come together that cause us to be here.
(03:01:36)
And so, I mean, we've obviously discussed the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell was at your daughter's wedding, which, again, is not indicative of anything, but when you take all of this and you put it together and you look at it holistically, it causes us to have these questions. So given all of that information that I just went over, that we've gone over today, do you understand why you're here and do you think it's appropriate for us to ask questions of someone that's in such a position of authority and has all of this smoke?
(03:02:04)
I mean, maybe there's no fire with you, but in order for us to get to the bottom of it, the American people want this transparency and accountability. So I mean, do you understand why we are doing this or do you think this is just a waste of time?
Hillary Clinton (03:02:17):
You'll have to determine whether it is or it isn't a waste of time, but you make all of these assumptions... I don't believe anything Jeffrey Epstein says. So whatever he said, I would discount completely. I don't believe very much of what Ghislaine Maxwell said in the very first exhibit you gave me was what she told Blanche Todd. So it's your job to figure out what is and isn't true, but more importantly, what's relevant to your investigation and...
Rep. Timmons (03:02:51):
What's relevant to our investigation is that people at the highest levels of government were involved in a sex trafficking ring.
Hillary Clinton (03:02:57):
I was not involved at all, and I resent you even connecting those two points.
Rep. Timmons (03:03:02):
You're here to help us get to the bottom of it.
Hillary Clinton (03:03:04):
I've been doing my very best.
Rep. Timmons (03:03:05):
Well, you tried to avoid it for six months.
Speaker 17 (03:03:05):
Let her answer fully the question and then you can ask.
Hillary Clinton (03:03:08):
I've been doing all I can. How can I answer questions about a person that I don't believe I ever even met? Although maybe I was in the same room once, who gave money to a joint funding committee that I did not have knowledge of. I'm doing the best I can to answer your questions.
Rep. Timmons (03:03:26):
I appreciate that. Again, patterns is what we're following, and I think we're going to have a lot more questions for the president tomorrow. Thank you.
Speaker 17 (03:03:38):
Mr. McGuire. Accept Representative McGuire from Virginia.
(03:03:44)
How much time?
Speaker 18 (03:03:44):
[inaudible 03:03:56]
Speaker 4 (03:03:57):
Can I just have a time check so I know where we are?
Speaker 18 (03:03:58):
We have approximately 15 minutes left.
McGuire (03:04:02):
Madam Secretary, thank you for being here today. I thank the American people. I represent Virginia's Fifth District, the Commonwealth of Virginia. In the whole United States, we all want transparent accountability, and I would imagine you want the same thing, is that right? Human trafficking, rape, torture, these things are unspeakable evil. Would you agree with that?
Hillary Clinton (03:04:21):
I would.
McGuire (03:04:23):
I was a Navy SEAL veteran during the time your husband was in the presidency and we did a lot of missions to go against the cartels and go after human traffickers and people who did all these unspeakable things. Question for you, have you read the released Epstein files?
Hillary Clinton (03:04:39):
I've read excerpts as they've come to my attention.
McGuire (03:04:43):
Would you agree that there are unspeakable acts of violence against women, minors, and other people in there?
Hillary Clinton (03:04:48):
I'm told there are.
McGuire (03:04:51):
And just curious what your knowledge is. How many Epstein file documents were released during the four years of the Biden administration?
Hillary Clinton (03:04:59):
I don't have any information about that.
McGuire (03:05:02):
So what I'm being told is zero.
Rep. Timmons (03:05:04):
True.
McGuire (03:05:06):
How many files do you think have been released, Epstein files, since President Trump is in his second term?
Hillary Clinton (03:05:11):
Many, I've been told.
McGuire (03:05:13):
I've been told over three million. And again, we both agree that we want transparency and accountability. I don't think it's a Democrat, Republican or independent thing. I think it's just an American thing. We want accountability and we need to have it. So would you agree that no one is above the law?
Hillary Clinton (03:05:32):
I certainly would.
McGuire (03:05:34):
Yeah. So since taking office, President Trump has done a lot to fight human trafficking. His admin secured the border in just a matter of weeks and human trafficking numbers and the rape and all these unspeakable acts still exist in the world and even in our country, but they've gone down significantly. And of course, we've been going after the cartels and human traffickers extremely aggressively ever since he took office in his second term. Congress and President Trump, we signed into law, on January 2nd, the Trafficking Survivors Relief Act. Have you heard about this? So we're definitely making progress. So I heard you earlier say that we weren't doing anything.
Hillary Clinton (03:06:12):
I was talking about the State Department.
McGuire (03:06:16):
Well, we work together, but I'm with you. Also, it's just... Twice I heard you say that you didn't know about the donation from Maxwell, and according to FEC and our research, you can, as a candidate, even back in the '90s, coordinate with JFC, joint funding...
Speaker 4 (03:06:32):
Excuse me, could you correct your statement? You said that she didn't know about Maxwell. Do you mean...
McGuire (03:06:36):
No, no, no. I'm just saying she said that twice he couldn't...
Hillary Clinton (03:06:38):
You're talking about Epstein.
McGuire (03:06:39):
Right, that's right. Twice she said you couldn't communicate with the JFC.
Hillary Clinton (03:06:43):
Well, that's what I was told. Maybe my...
McGuire (03:06:45):
And according to FEC and the report that we did in the last couple hours, you could do that. Not a big deal. Just letting you know that. All right, some questions. So Madam Secretary, since you claim you never met or communicated with Mr. Epstein, how is that possible seeing that Mr. Epstein visited the White House several times... I may be repeating some of the other questions, several times during your husband's presidency?
Speaker 17 (03:07:03):
I object because that's speculative, Congressman. I'm not advising her not to answer, but it's speculating. She doesn't know.
McGuire (03:07:09):
Madam Secretary?
Hillary Clinton (03:07:09):
I don't know.
McGuire (03:07:09):
It's okay, just...
Hillary Clinton (03:07:12):
I don't know how many times he visited. I've been told, but I don't know for my own information or personal experience.
McGuire (03:07:20):
Yeah. Apparently he was there 17 times. At least there's more than a dozen. All right, Secretary Clinton, did you ever ask Ms. Maxwell about the validity of the Epstein crimes when he was first accused?
Hillary Clinton (03:07:31):
I don't recall any conversation with her about that.
McGuire (03:07:34):
And how well did you know her?
Hillary Clinton (03:07:35):
Not very well.
McGuire (03:07:37):
All right. Secretary Clinton, how do you feel about your husband being named in the Epstein files?
Hillary Clinton (03:07:42):
Well, I think it's something that is unfortunate, and I'm sure that he will tell you that he wished he had not flown on Epstein's plane. So it's unfortunate in my opinion.
McGuire (03:08:00):
Secretary Clinton, did Ms. Maxwell's nephew, Mr. Alexander Djerassi, I may be saying that wrong, work for your 2008 campaign?
Hillary Clinton (03:08:07):
As I said earlier, he volunteered for my campaign. He did a good job. My campaign staff hired him. He was an excellent employee. And then he had a very relevant educational background and went to work in the State Department.
McGuire (03:08:27):
And Secretary Clinton, was Ms. Maxwell's nephew, Mr. Alexander Djerassi, hired by the State Department shortly after you became Secretary of State?
Hillary Clinton (03:08:37):
Yes, he was.
McGuire (03:08:38):
And Secretary Clinton, by all accounts at the time of his hiring, Mr. Alexander Djerassi had limited foreign policy experience. Was he hired as a favor for Mrs. Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:08:49):
Not at all. I had no idea that he was related to her, and I have absolutely no recollection or reason to believe that she was at all involved.
McGuire (03:08:59):
Well, the people that I represent, and I think our country cares about most out of this whole thing, is that what can we learn so we can prevent people committing human trafficking in our country, in the world? And I think that's what we all care about. We care about that. And then how did someone with such egregious behavior penetrate the highest level of government? Are world leaders compromised? Are American politicians compromised? As you read the Epstein files and read the reports, overwhelmingly, Epstein donated more to Democrats by far than he did Republicans. You served as Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013, is that correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:09:36):
That's correct.
McGuire (03:09:37):
The State Department leads the United States efforts to globally combat human and sex trafficking. Is that a fair characterization?
Hillary Clinton (03:09:44):
It is the responsibility of the State Department to try to hold countries accountable through our annual report and to work with countries to try to encourage them to improve their laws and their enforcement.
McGuire (03:10:01):
In fact, Secretary of State is responsible for submitting an annual trafficking in persons or TIP report. Is that correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:10:07):
That is correct.
McGuire (03:10:09):
And Secretary Clinton, can you please explain what this report is? What is the purpose of the report? What was your role in the creation of this report? And did you have a final approval of the contents of this report, the TIP report?
Hillary Clinton (03:10:22):
This report, I believe it's legislatively mandated, is put together by the experts in the State Department and people who are responsible for following developments in trafficking through our embassies around the world. And what it does is to try to assess whether countries are taking trafficking seriously, whether they have adequate laws, whether they're enforcing those laws, whether judges are trained, whether law enforcement takes the crimes seriously.
(03:10:55)
And then every year, the office responsible for the TIP report evaluates and describes what a country was doing. And in egregious cases where countries are ignoring it, where the problem is getting worse, there can be sanctions employed. But usually the effort to stay out of the report in a negative way helps us diplomatically to persuade countries to take more action.
McGuire (03:11:28):
Okay. So to be clear, were TIP reports submitted to Congress during your tenure?
Hillary Clinton (03:11:31):
Yes.
McGuire (03:11:32):
And was human trafficking in the United States increasing or decreasing during that time?
Hillary Clinton (03:11:37):
In the United States, I'm not as familiar with the year-to-year numbers, but human trafficking has been a very big problem in the United States and elsewhere. And as you pointed out, all kinds of criminal organizations, gangs, cartels find it profitable to traffic human beings. So
Hillary Clinton (03:12:00):
So, it kind of goes up and down, depending upon how effectively we're enforcing our laws or other nations are enforcing theirs.
McGuire (03:12:07):
So, during the Biden administration, open border policies, we don't know the number, we think 15 to 20 million illegal criminal aliens, the cartels, you probably saw in Colorado where Tren de Aragua took over an apartment complex at gunpoint and one guy called the police. They cut his fingers off and said, "If you call the police again, we're going to cut off your hands." So, would you agree that having a secure border is very important to prevent these cartels and these human traffickers from coming into our country and victimizing the American people?
Hillary Clinton (03:12:36):
I have been in favor of secure borders and effective, humane immigration policy for as long as I've thought about it. And when I ran for the Senate, when I ran for president, I advocated for security at our borders, but also additional resources so that we could process the people who came to our borders in a more efficient and timely way. I voted for comprehensive immigration reform on a bipartisan basis when I was in the Senate. So yes, I absolutely agree that we need secure borders.
McGuire (03:13:11):
Yeah, so what are the tools, because we want to get to the bottom of... Whatever, this unspeakable evil, whoever's at fault, we need to stop it from happening again. So, I'm just wondering, what other tools does the State Department have to foster international cooperation and address an international sex trafficking... How can we utilize these tools? Now, obviously we've been very effective in the first year of President Trump's second term, but going back into what you learned when you were there, what can we do?
Hillary Clinton (03:13:36):
I think the efforts that we attempted to deploy in terms of sanctions, in terms of pressure, coercive diplomacy to try to make countries either have the laws or comply with the laws, were the tools that we used diplomatically. Law enforcement uses other tools. We are not a law enforcement agency in the State Department, but we did our part to try to work jointly with law enforcement, not only the Department of Justice, but law enforcement in other countries. And I think that that's why it was hard to understand why one of the decisions made in the State Department was to gut that office, because I do think it plays a role. I mean, it's not the law enforcement role, but it is an important, informational, educational, diplomatic effort that can pay off. And now we don't have the resources that we need there, in my opinion.
McGuire (03:14:41):
Do you think that world leaders, or maybe American politicians, are compromised with people in the Epstein network to allow them to have this evil go on in our country, New Mexico, Epstein's Island and all that?
Hillary Clinton (03:14:54):
I have no information about any of that.
McGuire (03:14:57):
If I take you at your word, or we take you at your word, you let Epstein and his close associates close to your family, close to the Clinton Foundation: do you feel like you made a mistake?
Hillary Clinton (03:15:09):
I never met him, so I have no way of judging. I never met him. And I wish he had been stopped in 2008 instead of giving a slap on the wrist like he was.
McGuire (03:15:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 19 (03:15:24):
And with that, we will end this Majority's hour now. Go off the record.
Speaker 5 (03:15:40):
We can go back on the record. Ma'am, I have just a few questions about things you discussed in the previous round, then I'll turn it over to a member of the committee. There were a few cases of mistaken identity, I think, in the previous hour.
Hillary Clinton (03:15:57):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (03:15:58):
So, for one, we understand that Bob Torricelli was the DSCC chairman when you ran for Senate, not Bob Kerrey. I think you got that one right, and we just wanted to confirm that for you.
Hillary Clinton (03:16:13):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (03:16:15):
In addition, John Sculley is a businessman who, at one point, was the CEO of Apple. Steve Scully is some kind of IT person in the Virgin Islands. Am I correct to say that you do not know Steve Scully, the IT guy in the Virgin Islands?
Hillary Clinton (03:16:34):
That is correct.
Speaker 5 (03:16:35):
Great. You were asked several times, and I just want to get it clean here in one place, whether your husband visited Mr. Epstein's island in the US Virgin Islands. Firstly, to be clear, you yourself did not visit Mr. Epstein's Island. Is that right?
Hillary Clinton (03:16:53):
That is right.
Speaker 5 (03:16:55):
And am I right that it's your understanding that your husband also did not visit Mr. Epstein's island?
Hillary Clinton (03:17:01):
That is my understanding, and I think there is significant evidence to back that up, including that the Secret Service actually went on the record to say they had never been on the island, and that my husband had never signed off Secret Service protection.
Speaker 5 (03:17:26):
You took my next question, which was to clarify that as far as-
Hillary Clinton (03:17:30):
Let's clarify it again. Maybe they'll hear it this way.
Speaker 5 (03:17:31):
We'll double clarify that as far as you know, your husband did not separate himself from his Secret Service detail in order to fly on Mr. Epstein's plane?
Hillary Clinton (03:17:40):
As far as I know, he has never signed off on Secret Service protection.
Speaker 5 (03:17:47):
One last one for me. Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was attorney general at the time that Mr. Epstein received his sweetheart deal. As far as you know, was former Attorney General Gonzales required to physically come in for his deposition as you are today?
Hillary Clinton (03:18:06):
As far as I know, former Attorney General Gonzales was not required to come in. He gave a statement, a very short statement, saying he didn't know anything, and was excused from appearing. But I think it would be useful for the committee to probe the information that was available between Alex Acosta and the Department of Justice during that period of time when Jeffrey Epstein was charged with crimes.
Speaker 5 (03:18:42):
Lastly, I will just read the names of some other individuals who were subpoenaed by this committee in connection with this investigation, and I'll just ask you if it's your understanding that those individuals were required to physically come in for a deposition. Former Attorney General Jeff Sessions?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:03):
It is my understanding he was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:05):
Former FBI Director Robert Mueller?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:09):
He was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:10):
Former Attorney General Loretta Lynch?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:13):
She was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:15):
How about former Attorney General Eric Holder?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:18):
He was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:19):
And former Attorney General Merrick Garland?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:23):
He was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:24):
And former FBI Director James Comey?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:28):
He was not required.
Speaker 5 (03:19:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 20 (03:19:29):
Madam Secretary, good afternoon.
Hillary Clinton (03:19:32):
Hello, Congressman.
Speaker 20 (03:19:33):
Thank you for your patience today. As we've discussed today, you served in a variety of official roles from 1993 to 2013: First lady, senator from New York, secretary of state. During your time in any of these positions, did you have responsibility for the investigation or the prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:19:56):
I did not.
Speaker 20 (03:19:57):
During your time in these positions, were you ever involved in any investigation or prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:20:04):
I was not.
Speaker 20 (03:20:06):
Which agency, just given your experience and knowledge, what are some of the agencies or agencies that would have been involved or were involved in those kind of investigation and prosecutions?
Hillary Clinton (03:20:15):
I don't know personally, but just looking at the responsibilities of various agencies, it would be local, state, and federal law enforcement, and at the federal level, obviously the Department of Justice. It might well have been Border Control and FAA or TSA, other agencies that had anything to do with transportation.
Speaker 20 (03:20:44):
But in your experience, not first ladies, senators, or secretaries of state?
Hillary Clinton (03:20:48):
In my experience, none of the above.
Speaker 20 (03:20:51):
In any of your roles, did you ever seek to influence any level of government's activities, investigations, prosecutions related to Jeffrey Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:21:01):
I did not.
Speaker 20 (03:21:02):
Similarly, during your tenure in these positions, did you have responsibility for the investigation or prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:21:10):
I did not.
Speaker 20 (03:21:12):
Were you involved in the investigation or prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:21:16):
I was not.
Speaker 20 (03:21:17):
Thank you. During your tenure, did you ever seek to influence any level of government's investigation or prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:21:26):
I did not.
Speaker 20 (03:21:27):
Okay. One of the things that was discussed earlier was the conversation between Ghislaine Maxwell and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, after which Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred to a lower security, more comfortable prison situation. Are you familiar with that sequence of events?
Hillary Clinton (03:21:46):
I have read about that, yes.
Speaker 20 (03:21:48):
And when we, this committee, deposed to Ghislaine Maxwell, her attorney requested a pardon on her behalf, or rather stated that if she were pardoned, she would be at liberty to share more information with this committee and others. Are you familiar with that or have you read about that?
Hillary Clinton (03:22:05):
I read about that.
Speaker 20 (03:22:07):
And the media has asked President Trump if he's considering a pardon-
Hillary Clinton (03:22:12):
Excuse me.
Speaker 20 (03:22:13):
... of Ghislaine Maxwell, and he, to date, has not ruled out a pardon or clemency for Ghislaine Maxwell. And because we've talked with you today about your role as secretary of state in trying to ensure that there are stronger policies, laws, protections to prevent sex trafficking, child trafficking, human trafficking, I just want to ask you, from your perspective, what signal would it send to those in the United States or around the world who might want to engage in those crimes if somebody convicted of those crimes were pardoned by the president of the United States?
Hillary Clinton (03:22:53):
I think it would send absolutely the wrong signal.
Speaker 20 (03:22:57):
In your experience, I'll ask again, do first ladies or secretaries of state or senators oversee or involved in specific sex trafficking investigations?
Hillary Clinton (03:23:11):
No. As I said earlier, Congressman, the secretary of state has a responsibility to try to use diplomatic authority, the power of sanctions, to convince other countries to improve their laws and enforce them.
Speaker 20 (03:23:31):
In your opinion, and you've maybe touched on some of this, who should this committee be speaking to if we wanted more information on specific federal sex traffic investigations, previous, current, future?
Hillary Clinton (03:23:47):
I think the Department of Justice, which is the primary law enforcement agency of our government, and perhaps some of the individual US attorneys and attorneys general that might have units devoted to trying to prevent and prosecute human trafficking.
Speaker 20 (03:24:08):
Thank you. That's all I have.
Speaker 5 (03:24:11):
And we can go off the record.
Speaker 19 (03:24:23):
All right. We'll go on the record. It is 4:17 in the afternoon. Mr. Burlison has a few questions for you.
Eric Burlison (03:24:32):
So, I'm going to begin with some lighthearted different questions, and you're welcome to ignore them if you want to, but while I have you here, I just have to ask. So, when your husband was president, it was Laurance Rockefeller had an effort to try to disclose UFOs, UAPs. When you were running for president, John Podesta publicly stated that you would disclose these files, if given the chance, if you had been president. Are you pleased to see that these files may be disclosed finally?
Hillary Clinton (03:25:06):
I am pleased. As I say, I think they have to be carefully scrutinized so that no national security information is disclosed, but this is an issue of real importance to so many people. And I think whatever can be disclosed should be disclosed.
Eric Burlison (03:25:30):
Was there a program that specifically that that was referencing that you were aware of?
Hillary Clinton (03:25:32):
I was not. As you mentioned, John Podesta, who was one of my advisors, was deeply interested in the issue. And if I had been elected, I certainly would've listened to his advice.
Eric Burlison (03:25:46):
Well, thank you for indulgence on that.
(03:25:49)
As you know, Alexander Acosta, who gave Epstein the 2009 plea deal, he said whenever he was asked, that he belonged to intelligence, and to leave it alone. Were you, and I think you've answered this before, but if you could answer more directly, were you or anyone in the Obama administration, through your role in the State Department or even afterwards in the Clinton Foundation, ever briefed on Epstein having any US intelligence ties?
Hillary Clinton (03:26:19):
I was not.
Eric Burlison (03:26:20):
Were you ever briefed of him having any foreign intelligence ties?
Hillary Clinton (03:26:24):
I was not.
Eric Burlison (03:26:26):
Okay. Epstein filed a FOIA request in 2011, seeking any CIA records about himself. That would've been during your time as secretary of state. So, through your role, were you made aware of that FOIA request?
Hillary Clinton (03:26:42):
I was not.
Eric Burlison (03:26:42):
Okay.
Hillary Clinton (03:26:45):
Was it ever responded to?
Eric Burlison (03:26:48):
That's a good question.
Hillary Clinton (03:26:49):
I know nothing about it.
Eric Burlison (03:26:51):
And typically, they haven't responded to us on our FOIA requests, so-
Hillary Clinton (03:26:55):
Mm.
Eric Burlison (03:26:56):
In 2014, Epstein met with William Burns, who was then a senior state department official and later a CIA director.
Speaker 21 (03:27:06):
Excuse me, could you say what year that was again?
Eric Burlison (03:27:08):
In 2014.
Speaker 21 (03:27:10):
In 2014, he met with William Burns?
Eric Burlison (03:27:12):
Mm-hmm, Epstein met with William Burns. As the secretary of state at that time, were you aware of that meeting?
Hillary Clinton (03:27:19):
I wasn't secretary of state in 2014.
Eric Burlison (03:27:22):
Okay. Were you aware of the meeting with Mr. Burns?
Hillary Clinton (03:27:24):
I was not.
Eric Burlison (03:27:24):
Okay. And finally, Ghislaine Maxwell's father was Robert Maxwell, who was widely reported as being Mossad or MI6 intelligence asset. In any of your conversations with Maxwell or people connected to her, did they ever mention Robert Maxwell's intelligence background, or any ongoing foreign or domestic intelligence connections through your conversations or interactions?
Hillary Clinton (03:27:52):
I have never talked to anybody about whether that is true or not. I don't know.
Eric Burlison (03:28:03):
Were you aware that when Maxwell attended your wedding, she was skipping a court-ordered deposition in the Epstein victims' civil lawsuit?
Speaker 21 (03:28:11):
Excuse me, do you mean her wedding or do you mean her daughter's wedding?
Eric Burlison (03:28:14):
I'm sorry, your daughter's wedding, I'm sorry. When she attended your daughter's wedding, were you aware that she was skipping a court-ordered-
Hillary Clinton (03:28:22):
I had no idea. I don't know anything about that.
Eric Burlison (03:28:24):
Is this the first time you're hearing that?
Hillary Clinton (03:28:26):
It is the first time I'm hearing that.
Eric Burlison (03:28:28):
But at the time, she was going through that investigation.
Hillary Clinton (03:28:31):
I knew nothing about it at the time, and so I can't respond.
Eric Burlison (03:28:36):
Okay. Later, Chelsea vacationed with Maxwell in 2009, and reportedly remained-
Hillary Clinton (03:28:42):
That was before the wedding.
Eric Burlison (03:28:43):
Yeah. Okay. Before that, she vacationed 2009, was reportedly friendly with her. Are you aware, what was the nature of that relationship?
Hillary Clinton (03:28:54):
I think you've described it. It was a friendly relationship.
Eric Burlison (03:28:57):
Is it safe to say that she was closer to Ghislaine Maxwell than you were?
Hillary Clinton (03:29:01):
I had very little contact with Ghislaine Maxwell, so I can't speak to anybody else's relationship, only my own.
Eric Burlison (03:29:09):
But it's safe to say that she was closer?
Hillary Clinton (03:29:12):
I'm not going to characterize it, because I don't know.
Eric Burlison (03:29:14):
Okay. Chelsea was also in attendance at the wedding in Morocco in 2002. It's also been documented that Epstein was there, as well as Maxwell. At that time, she would have been 21, maybe 22 years old. Do you have any concerns or have you asked your daughter about any maybe potential inappropriate activity?
Hillary Clinton (03:29:38):
You know, all of these questions about concerns that predate the charges and pleas of Epstein are very hard to answer because people did not know.
Eric Burlison (03:29:50):
At the time?
Hillary Clinton (03:29:51):
At the time. And all the questions about the contribution to the joint committee, people didn't know. And so, in retrospect, nobody would have had any contact with someone like that. And those people who continued to have contact with him after he pled guilty are in a different group, because that happened, and they still maintain contact with him.
Eric Burlison (03:30:20):
I think we're all experiencing that, where we're having a revelation of what we didn't know at the time, but in reflecting back, certainly it's appropriate to ask questions. And so my question is, knowing what happened at that time, have you had a conversation with her? Was there any inappropriate activity during that time?
Hillary Clinton (03:30:41):
At the time, nothing was known and nothing untoward occurred, and then there was no further contact with him. So, I can't really speculate about that further.
Eric Burlison (03:30:53):
We can all agree, I think, that Jeffrey Epstein was a monster, that he was empowered or enabled by Ghislaine Maxwell. I think we can all agree with that, correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:31:07):
I can't characterize their relationship. I think you can agree that he committed crimes. He was not fully held accountable for them, which could have stopped his predatory practices, perhaps, that continued for quite some time afterwards. And then he was finally indicted for serious crimes and he was in prison and then he mysteriously died. And with her, she was finally indicted, tried, and convicted. And I think you have to look at it in the chronological way in which it unfolded.
Eric Burlison (03:31:41):
Yeah. I think that there's varying degrees of culpability. She was certainly going beyond just being silent in her knowledge about the horrible acts that he was doing, but she was actually enabling it.
Hillary Clinton (03:31:53):
That's what she was convicted of.
Eric Burlison (03:31:55):
That's right. But if she had not been enabling, if she had not been taking those steps, if she had just been silent-
Speaker 21 (03:32:01):
Are you asking her to speculate?
Eric Burlison (03:32:02):
I'm asking, would you agree that she would be culpable as well, just in her silence?
Hillary Clinton (03:32:08):
I have no information about that, so I'm not going to speculate.
Eric Burlison (03:32:12):
Okay. All right. With that, I'm done.
Speaker 25 (03:32:18):
Okay.
Eric Burlison (03:32:18):
Thank you. Thank you, bye.
Hillary Clinton (03:32:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 25 (03:32:20):
Next is Representative-
Hillary Clinton (03:32:22):
This is sort of off-subject, but didn't you all require, in the latest Defense Authorization, that the UFO information has to be-
Speaker 22 (03:32:32):
They ripped it out.
Hillary Clinton (03:32:33):
What?
Speaker 22 (03:32:33):
They ripped it out. They killed it.
Hillary Clinton (03:32:35):
Oh, I thought that had gone through.
Speaker 22 (03:32:36):
No.
Eric Burlison (03:32:36):
That was my amendment and it got ripped out.
Speaker 22 (03:32:38):
It got-
Hillary Clinton (03:32:38):
Oh, okay. Well, you've just... I didn't know that, so thank you for enlightening me. Okay.
Speaker 22 (03:32:43):
Yeah, they've been killing that.
Hillary Clinton (03:32:45):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 25 (03:32:46):
Next up's Representative Perry from Pennsylvania.
Scott Perry (03:33:02):
Good afternoon, Madam Secretary.
Hillary Clinton (03:33:03):
Good afternoon.
Scott Perry (03:33:04):
You live in a particularly beautiful part of the country.
Hillary Clinton (03:33:08):
Thank you.
Scott Perry (03:33:08):
Good for you.
Hillary Clinton (03:33:09):
It's very pretty up here.
Scott Perry (03:33:11):
Madam Secretary, once it was revealed publicly that you and President Clinton were connected, I'm going to use that term, to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, did you discuss the subject with your daughter?
Hillary Clinton (03:33:26):
I'm not going to talk about what I did or didn't discuss with family members, but I can tell you that it was something that was of grave concern to us, but when-
Scott Perry (03:33:38):
I imagine it was, and I know that you're... Look, I think we could probably get a long way here if we could discuss or have a view into your discussion with your husband. I suspect you're going to object to that.
Speaker 24 (03:33:50):
You're right, Congressman. Thank you for granting me that.
Scott Perry (03:33:54):
These are reasonable questions.
Hillary Clinton (03:33:56):
But Congressman-
Scott Perry (03:33:57):
Did your daughter discuss it with you?
Hillary Clinton (03:33:59):
Well, we were horrified by what was later-
Scott Perry (03:34:04):
Horrified in what way? We were all horrified of what we learned about Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, the victims.
Hillary Clinton (03:34:10):
Right. Right.
Scott Perry (03:34:12):
But did you discuss with your daughter, when you say you were horrified, the connection with her father and this Epstein episode?
Hillary Clinton (03:34:24):
My husband's connection with Jeffrey Epstein began and ended before he was charged with any crime.
Scott Perry (03:34:32):
I get that, but I said-
Hillary Clinton (03:34:33):
And so, in retrospect, we all say, "Oh my gosh, that was horrific. And why didn't more people know? And why didn't more people speak out at the time?" But I think the chronology is critically important. If we were talking about post-crime, that there was a continuing connection with him, that would be unacceptable, but it ended before he was charged.
Scott Perry (03:35:01):
I understand that, which is why I particularly said once it was revealed publicly. I get that continuing to be involved with someone like that after it was knowledgeable to everyone would be almost an unforgivable sin. However, I'm married too. Not as long as you, ma'am, but there would be questions in my family, even if it went back before we were married, there would be questions. And so-
Hillary Clinton (03:35:29):
Well-
Speaker 24 (03:35:29):
Congressman, I don't want to interrupt you, but I don't understand the question.
Scott Perry (03:35:33):
So, my question is, did your daughter discuss it with you? That was my particular question.
Hillary Clinton (03:35:39):
I think I can't recollect any specific conversation, but of course we discussed the horrific crimes that he was accused of.
Scott Perry (03:35:46):
But nothing about her father's connection to it?
Hillary Clinton (03:35:50):
Her father's connection began and ended before he was charged with crimes.
Scott Perry (03:35:58):
Did your daughter ever mention to you that she discussed this matter with her father?
Hillary Clinton (03:36:04):
I don't recollect that.
Scott Perry (03:36:06):
Did you see the photos of your husband with young girls related to Jeffrey Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:36:11):
I saw the few photos that my lawyers showed me.
Scott Perry (03:36:14):
Right. Did you also see the photos of your husband with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:36:20):
I have seen such photos.
Scott Perry (03:36:23):
They're out there, right?
Hillary Clinton (03:36:24):
Yes.
Scott Perry (03:36:24):
I imagine you're familiar, but I just want to make sure. Since seeing these photos, have any questions about the content, locations, general circumstances come to your mind?
Hillary Clinton (03:36:36):
No. It was unfortunate that he ever did anything with Jeffrey Epstein.
Scott Perry (03:36:42):
There was no curiosity?
Speaker 21 (03:36:44):
Excuse me, are you asking for an opinion? Or is there a fact that she can share with you that would be helpful in your investigation in the-
Scott Perry (03:36:50):
Well, I did say were there any questions.
Speaker 21 (03:36:52):
... legislative purpose of the committee.
Scott Perry (03:36:54):
I'll give you an example. If I saw a picture with my wife... It's just really hard to be relevant. If my wife saw pictures with me, as a grown man, hanging out with obviously or close to underage women, regardless if it was before we were married or not, it would be a question. And so what I'm asking you is, did any questions regarding those photographs come to your mind?
Hillary Clinton (03:37:22):
I am going to, just as clearly as I can state, say I don't see the relevance of your question, and I am not going to talk about conversations that I had with my family, especially my husband.
Speaker 23 (03:37:37):
And for clarity, are you all asserting spousal privilege?
Speaker 21 (03:37:43):
For clarity, we're looking for the relevance of her conversations with her husband and what she might have thought about her conversations with the... How does that help further the legislative purpose of this committee as they investigate the prosecution and investigations of Jeffrey Epstein?
Speaker 23 (03:38:02):
I think Mr. Perry's questions directly relate to-
Speaker 21 (03:38:05):
To her daughter? To her husband?
Hillary Clinton (03:38:05):
To what? My state of mind?
Speaker 21 (03:38:06):
Her state of mind?
Hillary Clinton (03:38:08):
What possible relevance does my state of mind have to your investigation?
Speaker 23 (03:38:13):
I believe Mr. Perry's questions, and Mr. Perry can step in if he would like, are directly related to her relationships with-
Speaker 21 (03:38:21):
With her husband?
Speaker 23 (03:38:22):
... with Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell, and her opinions as it relates to her husband's relationships.
Speaker 21 (03:38:27):
She's speaking facts, not opinions.
Hillary Clinton (03:38:29):
I am not here to give opinions. I'm here to answer factual questions. And I have answered, for many hours now, that I had no relationship, because I never met the guy, to my best recollection, with Jeffrey Epstein.
Scott Perry (03:38:42):
And I'm not implying, and you shouldn't aver that I've made that connection. I'm not implying that.
Hillary Clinton (03:38:48):
Okay.
Scott Perry (03:38:48):
You're still married, Madam Secretary, still married, correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:38:50):
That's very true.
Scott Perry (03:38:51):
Okay. Can you identify the man in these photos?
Hillary Clinton (03:38:57):
I can't see them across the table.
Scott Perry (03:39:00):
Let me get them a little closer.
Speaker 21 (03:39:05):
So, just for the record, you would like her to identify pictures of her spouse?
Scott Perry (03:39:09):
Yes.
Speaker 21 (03:39:09):
You need her here to testify on pictures of her spouse?
Hillary Clinton (03:39:13):
The 42nd president of the United States of America? That is my husband.
Scott Perry (03:39:22):
Okay. How about the location?
Hillary Clinton (03:39:25):
I have no knowledge of the location, I have no context for the location, I know nothing about the location.
Scott Perry (03:39:31):
If you were informed that that's on Mr. Epstein's plane that-
Speaker 21 (03:39:34):
Would you like her to speculate based on your opinion or fact?
Scott Perry (03:39:36):
No, no, ma'am, if you'd let me ask the question. If you were informed that was on Mr. Epstein's plane that is known to have frequented not only the island, but other locations where sexual abuse, horrific sexual abuse occurred, would you have any questions about those photos and who's in them?
Speaker 24 (03:39:59):
Objection. Calls for speculation, states facts not in evidence. I'm not instructing you not to answer.
Hillary Clinton (03:40:05):
Well, no, I'm not going to speculate. I'm not going to-
Scott Perry (03:40:09):
Do you know the names of any of the young girls in those photos with your husband?
Speaker 24 (03:40:14):
The faces are blacked out, Congressman, correct?
Scott Perry (03:40:15):
I understand that. But the photos are out there.
Speaker 21 (03:40:19):
But are you saying she should be able to know who individuals are when they're-
Scott Perry (03:40:22):
No, I think what I'm saying is that-
Speaker 21 (03:40:24):
... that the photos are blacked out?
Scott Perry (03:40:25):
What I'm saying is that in a normal relationship, you would probably ask the person that you're sleeping with who that person in the photo is.
Speaker 21 (03:40:34):
There were so many things that I would just like that to stay. I'd like that to stay on the record. Thank you.
Speaker 24 (03:40:39):
Let's wait for a question at which you can give a factual answer.
Hillary Clinton (03:40:41):
Would be helpful.
Scott Perry (03:40:43):
Are you aware of a single misstatement of fact from any person who you know or believe to be an Epstein victim?
Hillary Clinton (03:40:52):
I have got no knowledge of all the statements of fact that-
Scott Perry (03:40:57):
So, at this point, the answer would be no?
Hillary Clinton (03:40:59):
I don't know. I have no way of knowing.
Speaker 21 (03:41:01):
Please don't mischaracterize her statement.
Scott Perry (03:41:05):
Are you aware that your husband's name is noted multiple times in the Jeffrey Epstein flight logs?
Hillary Clinton (03:41:13):
I think everyone knows that he flew on Jeffrey Epstein's plane, as did many other people, including Donald Trump.
Scott Perry (03:41:20):
Understood, understood. Well, I don't know about that last one, but did you ever discuss that fact with anyone or any organization, that your husband's name appeared on the flight logs?
Hillary Clinton (03:41:33):
I don't recall. I mean, I've talked about it with my lawyers and others assisting in my preparation, but I can't recall specifics.
Scott Perry (03:41:42):
Are you aware of trips made by your husband on Jeffrey Epstein's numerous helicopters, whether piloted by Ghislaine Maxwell or anyone else?
Speaker 24 (03:41:49):
Objection, states facts not in evidence.
Hillary Clinton (03:41:52):
I've never heard that.
Scott Perry (03:41:53):
Are you aware of the allegation?
Hillary Clinton (03:41:55):
No, I was not.
Scott Perry (03:41:57):
The allegation does exist in the record. Is that something you're curious about, Madam Secretary?
Hillary Clinton (03:42:02):
I have no awareness of it.
Scott Perry (03:42:06):
Questions are complete. Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 25 (03:42:07):
Next questioner is Ms. Boebert from Colorado.
Scott Perry (03:42:22):
It's out there, okay? I know who she is.
Lauren Boebert (03:42:28):
Ms. Clinton, Madam Secretary, while we sat on the record today, are you under oath?
Hillary Clinton (03:42:33):
I am.
Lauren Boebert (03:42:34):
Okay. Have you ever lied while being under oath?
Hillary Clinton (03:42:37):
I have not.
Lauren Boebert (03:42:38):
Have you ever lied in a deposition?
Hillary Clinton (03:42:41):
I have not.
Lauren Boebert (03:42:42):
Okay, thank you. Have you ever transmitted any information to Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell about the United States government?
Hillary Clinton (03:42:50):
I have not.
Lauren Boebert (03:42:52):
As has been mentioned many times here today, Bill Clinton flew on Epstein's plane at least 26 times, multiple international trips from 2002 to 2003, often with Maxwell. When and how did you first learn of these trips, and did you discuss them or review them with him prior to taking the trips?
Speaker 24 (03:43:11):
It's a compound question. I'm going to object to the latter part of it-
Lauren Boebert (03:43:14):
Sure.
Speaker 24 (03:43:15):
... and instruct her not to answer on the grounds of-
Lauren Boebert (03:43:17):
When and how did you learn of these first trips, of these trips?
Hillary Clinton (03:43:20):
I don't recall how I learned about them. I knew that he was traveling on a number of different planes owned by a number of different people, and I don't recollect having conversations about the planes. We talked about the work. We talked about the meetings that he had. We talked about his efforts to try to persuade countries to invest in low-cost aid trucks. That's what we talked about.
Lauren Boebert (03:43:47):
Did you discuss who he would be traveling with?
Hillary Clinton (03:43:48):
I did not. I don't have any recollection of that.
Lauren Boebert (03:43:50):
Ms. Clinton, when did you first learn that your husband was spending time extensively with a registered sex offender?
Hillary Clinton (03:43:59):
He did not
Hillary Clinton (03:44:00):
... not after.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:00):
Okay.
Hillary Clinton (03:44:01):
He was convicted years after Bill stopped having any relationship.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:05):
Were there any activities that raised any red flags to think that he could be charged of sex crimes during the time that Clinton-
Speaker 4 (03:44:13):
Are you asking if she has awareness?
Lauren Boebert (03:44:13):
Yes.
Hillary Clinton (03:44:14):
Of Jeffrey Epstein?
Lauren Boebert (03:44:16):
Of any red flags being brought to your awareness, to your family's awareness while your husband was spending time with Jeffrey Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:44:24):
I have no recollection of anyone bringing any red flags to me.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:31):
So, have any of the victims of Epstein or Maxwell ever reached out to you in any way?
Hillary Clinton (03:44:41):
I don't recall that.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:43):
You do not recall any reason a victim may have reached out to you or your counsel?
Speaker 4 (03:44:48):
Excuse me, the question was, do you recall-
Speaker 26 (03:44:51):
Excuse me, the question's asked and answered.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:51):
I asked any-
Speaker 4 (03:44:51):
... whether or not any victim reached out to her and she said she did not have an awareness of that.
Lauren Boebert (03:44:54):
Moving on, Ms. Clinton, are you aware of anyone ever telling your husband that they had damaging information about him that they would release?
Hillary Clinton (03:45:02):
I have no awareness of that.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:05):
Did Epstein ever ask you or Mr. Clinton for any favors of any kind?
Hillary Clinton (03:45:09):
I never talked to Jeffrey Epstein.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:11):
Did Maxwell ever ask you or Mr. Clinton for favors of any kind?
Hillary Clinton (03:45:16):
She did not ask me.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:18):
Did Epstein have any connection to or association with the Clinton Foundation?
Hillary Clinton (03:45:23):
There's been the allegation that he did, but I don't have any factual basis for knowing one way or the other.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:30):
Okay. And we have discussed today the small amounts donated historically, and the $20,000 to your campaign, the 1999 Senate campaign, $25,000 via affiliate to-
Speaker 4 (03:45:45):
Excuse me, could you state for the record it was not to the campaign, so if you wouldn't mind just stating the fact that-
Lauren Boebert (03:45:49):
$20,000 to Hillary's 1999 Senate campaign?
Hillary Clinton (03:45:50):
No.
Speaker 4 (03:45:50):
That's inaccurate.
Hillary Clinton (03:45:52):
No, it was a joint-
Speaker 26 (03:45:53):
Joint.
Hillary Clinton (03:45:54):
... state campaign.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:56):
Joint campaign. Okay. Sure.
Hillary Clinton (03:45:58):
Fine.
Lauren Boebert (03:45:58):
Okay. So we have talked about those connections. In past public statements, as in 2017 speeches and interviews, you described Pizzagate as a baseless conspiracy theory alleging you and others ran a child sex trafficking ring from a Washington pizzeria basement. Have you reviewed any 2025, 2026 Epstein files that were released that you believe reference or relate to those specific 2016 claims regarding the Podesta emails, comment ping pong pizza used as code possibly?
Speaker 4 (03:46:36):
I'm sorry, does this really-
Speaker 26 (03:46:36):
You're asking her about whether she's reviewed emails in the Epstein-
Lauren Boebert (03:46:39):
In the Epstein files.
Speaker 26 (03:46:41):
... which relate to the wacky Pizzagate scam?
Lauren Boebert (03:46:44):
You could characterize it however you want. I just would like to know if she's familiar with any of them. She's commenting-
Speaker 4 (03:46:48):
Excuse me. Your question is about whether or not she has reviewed any emails in the Epstein released files about Pizzagate?
Lauren Boebert (03:46:57):
Correct.
Hillary Clinton (03:47:00):
Pizzagate was totally made up. It was an outrageous allegation that ended up hurting a number of people, that caused a deranged young man to show up with his assault rifle and shoot up a local pizzeria. I can't believe you're even referencing it. You should be ...
Lauren Boebert (03:47:21):
There are connections to the language. I'm not talking about-
Hillary Clinton (03:47:25):
Well, the QAnon people believe there are.
Lauren Boebert (03:47:27):
I don't know what QAnon people believe-
Hillary Clinton (03:47:28):
Have at it. Have at it.
Lauren Boebert (03:47:30):
But you've accused certain parties, and I think even right now today, of promoting slow walking or information in ways that fuels conspiracies. In your view, did any Epstein-Maxwell related investigations or file handling pre- or post-2019 contribute to or intersect with the spread of Pizzagate style theories about Democrat figures?
Speaker 26 (03:47:58):
Objection.
Hillary Clinton (03:47:59):
I have no way of answering. That is the most-
Speaker 26 (03:48:01):
Calls for speculation.
Hillary Clinton (03:48:01):
... ridiculously ...
Lauren Boebert (03:48:04):
Have you or your representatives identified any Epstein file content that has been misinterpreted online to revive those claims? And what steps, if any, have you taken to clarify?
Speaker 26 (03:48:18):
Again, object to the ground of speculation-
Lauren Boebert (03:48:20):
I think that this is all very reasonable.
Hillary Clinton (03:48:22):
Well, first of all, I don't follow the crazy conspiracy stories that are online. I regret that anybody does. I find it quite sad, but also disturbing that people would believe some of what is put forth like Pizzagate. So I have taken no steps to review anything that might-
Lauren Boebert (03:48:48):
Do you think Pizza-
Speaker 4 (03:48:48):
No [inaudible 03:48:48]
Hillary Clinton (03:48:48):
... have any connection to something-
Lauren Boebert (03:48:49):
Sure.
Hillary Clinton (03:48:49):
... which I think is totally bogus.
Lauren Boebert (03:48:54):
John Podesta, your 2016 campaign chair, appears in some Epstein file context, social overlaps or mentions. Were you aware of any of the Podesta related communications in the released files that-
Speaker 4 (03:49:08):
Can you please provide her examples or the evidence that you would like us to review or the exhibits that reflect that in order for her to be able to do that?
Lauren Boebert (03:49:17):
I can get some exhibits. I'm pausing these questions in the meantime.
Speaker 4 (03:49:18):
She can speak to that when you provide those.
Lauren Boebert (03:49:20):
I will get those and I will skip that question until-
Mr. Chairman (03:49:23):
But [inaudible 03:49:23] woman ask generally if she's aware.
Speaker 4 (03:49:25):
Generally, she is asking if she's aware of specific information that is in the files that you all are relying on. Please provide the witness with copies of that material.
Mr. Chairman (03:49:33):
If the client doesn't know or has no recollection, she's welcome to state so.
Speaker 4 (03:49:36):
We're also welcome to actually see the information that you're taking today.
Mr. Chairman (03:49:39):
Again, the representative is asking general questions [inaudible 03:49:41]
Hillary Clinton (03:49:41):
I mean, I expected a lot of interesting questions today, but Pizzagate was not on my list.
Lauren Boebert (03:49:49):
That's okay. We're asking all sorts of things here.
Hillary Clinton (03:49:51):
You certainly are. You certainly are.
Lauren Boebert (03:49:53):
We're just trying to get the truth out to the American people with some clarity.
Hillary Clinton (03:49:56):
Well, that would be very helpful.
Lauren Boebert (03:49:58):
Are you aware of any files that were on Anthony Weiner's laptop in a folder that was titled, "Insurance, life insurance," with a zip file titled "Frazzledrip"?
Speaker 4 (03:50:13):
Excuse me [inaudible 03:50:14] chairman's ruling.
Speaker 26 (03:50:15):
This is way outside the scope.
Speaker 4 (03:50:17):
Is that in the scope? Is this within the scope, Mr. Chairman?
Lauren Boebert (03:50:18):
If the chairman rules that it's not within the scope I have other questions.
Speaker 4 (03:50:20):
Mr. Chairman, based on what you said in the public hearing, is this within the scope?
Mr. Chairman (03:50:24):
We can go off the record for a moment for [inaudible 03:50:26]
Speaker 4 (03:50:26):
Mr. Chairman, is this within the scope?
Speaker 27 (03:50:27):
We'll go off the record.
Mr. Chairman (03:50:28):
We'll go off the record and control it.
Speaker 27 (03:50:40):
We'll go back on the record.
Lauren Boebert (03:50:42):
Madam Clinton, you have stated that you do not recall meeting Jeffrey Epstein and having no links to him. Have you reviewed any photos, emails, or records from the released Epstein files that might refresh your recollection of any encounter, event, or introduction involving him?
Speaker 4 (03:50:58):
Excuse me. Before, you are stating that with respect to an interview or with respect to what she has stated here today?
Lauren Boebert (03:51:04):
I'm asking in general, has anything that you have viewed since the release of the Epstein files brought any sort of recollection of an encounter with Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (03:51:14):
Not that I recall.
Lauren Boebert (03:51:17):
You acknowledged meeting Ghislaine Maxwell on a few occasions in connection with the Clinton Global Initiative. Please describe-
Speaker 28 (03:51:24):
[inaudible 03:51:27].
Lauren Boebert (03:51:26):
... each meeting in detail.
Hillary Clinton (03:51:28):
I did not. Actually, in response to a question which posited that she had come to the Clinton Global Initiative in 2013, I stated I did not have any involvement in that and I did not recall seeing her there, but I have seen photos that she has been there. And in 2013, she was very active promoting this ocean work that she was doing. And apparently everybody from the UN to CNN to the TED Talk people thought it was worth giving her a platform.
Lauren Boebert (03:52:07):
Madam Clinton, one of the jobs you did for the CGI was helping and maybe even directing the planning of the annual meetings. Is that correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:52:17):
No. The staff plans the annual meeting and they make a report and we offer suggestions.
Lauren Boebert (03:52:24):
In 2013, Maxwell recognized ASA committed to action leader.
Hillary Clinton (03:52:31):
She made a commitment in 2013 along with hundreds, maybe thousands of other people.
Lauren Boebert (03:52:38):
So I find it notable that in 2011, Doug Band says that he directed the Clinton Foundation staff to bar Maxwell from receiving an invite to CGI or the Clinton Foundation events. I would like to know who overruled Doug Band's suggestion to bar Maxwell?
Speaker 26 (03:53:01):
Objection. Based on hearsay. States facts not in evidence. You can ask the witness if she knows anything about that.
Hillary Clinton (03:53:07):
I know nothing about that.
Mr. Chairman (03:53:09):
One moment, Ms. Boebert. The federal rules of evidence don't apply in depositions with-
Hillary Clinton (03:53:15):
That's fine.
Mr. Chairman (03:53:17):
... the deposition.
Hillary Clinton (03:53:17):
I don't know anything about it.
Lauren Boebert (03:53:18):
Okay. And so would you also not have any indication that who she was personally recommended by to receive such an order?
Hillary Clinton (03:53:27):
I was Secretary of State. I was not involved with the CGI planning or operation agreement.
Lauren Boebert (03:53:32):
Your husband presented that award or is that true?
Hillary Clinton (03:53:35):
I have no idea.
Lauren Boebert (03:53:36):
Okay. And then just a couple of more questions. So regarding the Epstein files, there are many files where Jeffrey Epstein seems to speak as though he does know you personally. In one file, EFTA 00657115, Mr. Epstein is commenting and he quotes, "Hey, Hillary Clinton is much prettier in person." This was Tuesday, September 20th, 2011. And then another-
Speaker 26 (03:54:15):
Congresswoman-
Hillary Clinton (03:54:15):
I'm not going to object to that.
Speaker 26 (03:54:20):
Congresswoman, can we see the documents because we don't think that-
Speaker 4 (03:54:24):
We would get that document.
Speaker 26 (03:54:26):
... says it. We don't think the document says it. Not that you're not pretty, that I've got to say that.
Hillary Clinton (03:54:29):
I'll take it if I can get it.
Lauren Boebert (03:54:29):
Jeffrey Epstein has also commented that meetings with Hillary are not easily discreet. Has he ever connected someone to meet with you?
Hillary Clinton (03:54:40):
Not that I'm aware of.
Lauren Boebert (03:54:42):
Okay. I'm going to let my colleagues ask some questions and maybe I'll be back. Thank you.
Speaker 26 (03:54:45):
Thank you. And we'll let staff.
Speaker 27 (03:54:51):
Secretary Clinton, just to circle back on a few things, you mentioned that your daughter Chelsea had a friendly relationship, is that correct, with Ms. Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:03):
I believe so.
Speaker 27 (03:55:08):
And did Chelsea tell you what made the relationship friendly?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:12):
Again, it was through Ted Waitt, the longtime friend of ours. That's how I certainly met her.
Speaker 27 (03:55:24):
So Chelsea met Ghislaine Maxwell through Ted Waitt as well?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:30):
I believe that's right.
Speaker 27 (03:55:31):
And I believe you testified earlier Ted Waitt's been a family friend for 30 years or something to that effect?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:36):
Early '90s, yes.
Speaker 27 (03:55:37):
And having a friend that long, you never discussed Ms. Maxwell with Mr. Waite?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:44):
I don't discuss the relationships of my friends. That's up to them.
Speaker 27 (03:55:50):
And so to be clear, you never discussed Ms. Maxwell's relationship with Mr. Waite?
Hillary Clinton (03:55:56):
Not that I recall. My memory is that shortly after the wedding on July 31st, 2010, shortly after that, they broke up. And shortly after that, he married somebody else. I know nothing about the relationship. I'm just describing what I believe was the chronology.
Speaker 27 (03:56:18):
Understood. And upon that breakup, as you said, Mr. Waite never said anything to the effect of why they broke up?
Hillary Clinton (03:56:26):
Not to me, he didn't.
Speaker 27 (03:56:29):
Circling the 2013 CGI annual conference that has been brought up on a few occasions today.
Hillary Clinton (03:56:37):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 27 (03:56:39):
I believe you said you did not remember seeing Ms. Maxwell there. Is that correct?
Hillary Clinton (03:56:43):
I do not recall seeing her there.
Speaker 27 (03:56:45):
And you had no interaction with her at all?
Hillary Clinton (03:56:46):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 27 (03:56:49):
After this 2013 annual conference of CGI, did anyone raise any concerns to you about Ms. Maxwell being there?
Hillary Clinton (03:56:59):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 27 (03:57:04):
Separate from just the 2013 event, did Mr. Band ever raise concerns about Ms. Maxwell to you?
Hillary Clinton (03:57:11):
Not that I recall.
Speaker 27 (03:57:19):
And again, just to clarify, did Mr. Band ever attempt to blacklist Ms. Maxwell from any Clinton Foundation or CGI events?
Hillary Clinton (03:57:28):
Not that I know of, but I can't say that I would've known.
Speaker 27 (03:57:32):
When did Mr. Band leave the foundation?
Hillary Clinton (03:57:41):
I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 27 (03:57:43):
Does 2012 sound possible? I'm not [inaudible 03:57:48]
Hillary Clinton (03:57:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (03:57:49):
The witness answered the question.
Hillary Clinton (03:57:52):
If it was during my time at Secretary of State, I wouldn't have any reason to know.
Speaker 27 (03:58:05):
Who would have final decisions over the list of individuals or entities that would get recognized at a CGI event?
Hillary Clinton (03:58:18):
It was a staff decision.
Speaker 27 (03:58:18):
If the staff made the decision, would the board have any input on that?
Hillary Clinton (03:58:23):
Not that I'm aware of. They might make suggestions as to people that should be contacted or followed up with, but I don't know specifically, and I certainly don't know anything about her involvement.
Speaker 27 (03:58:38):
Understood. And suggestions, what type of suggestions would they make on individuals or entities?
Hillary Clinton (03:58:45):
Oh, they might say, "This person's doing great work on affordable housing," or, "This person has done some really exciting hygiene work, trying to improve the wellbeing of people in some countries." It would be things like that. " So maybe invite this person because we can maybe introduce this person to somebody who's interested in doing the same kind of work, and maybe they can make a commitment together."
Speaker 27 (03:59:10):
Are you aware of President Clinton having a lunch or other type of meal with Ms. Maxwell in 2014?
Hillary Clinton (03:59:21):
I don't recall knowing that.
Speaker 27 (03:59:25):
Have you since been made aware of that fact?
Hillary Clinton (03:59:28):
Yes, I have been.
Speaker 27 (03:59:30):
And was that in preparation for this deposition?
Hillary Clinton (03:59:32):
It was.
Speaker 27 (03:59:38):
Are you aware of any other more recent meetings between Ms. Maxwell and any members of your family?
Hillary Clinton (03:59:43):
I am not.
Speaker 27 (03:59:55):
Does the Clinton Foundation often use jets of other individuals for foundation business?
Hillary Clinton (04:00:02):
Yes.
Speaker 27 (04:00:04):
And that is still a common practice today?
Hillary Clinton (04:00:06):
I don't know how common it is, but it has been in the past.
Speaker 27 (04:00:14):
And were there any other type of aircraft that you are aware of President Clinton traveling on with Mr. Epstein?
Hillary Clinton (04:00:20):
I am not aware of any other.
Speaker 27 (04:00:26):
Secretary Clinton, do you know who Nicolas Sarkozy is?
Hillary Clinton (04:00:32):
I do. The former president of France.
Speaker 27 (04:00:36):
And do you recall when he was president of France?
Hillary Clinton (04:00:39):
He was president while I was Secretary of State, but I don't know his actual years of term.
Speaker 27 (04:00:59):
I'm going to introduce as Majority Exhibit 17, an email from the Department of Justice's release of Epstein-related files. Give us one second. We will provide that to you all.
Speaker 4 (04:01:13):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 26 (04:01:15):
Also, while we have a break, I think that Congressman Perry, we wound up with at least three of your pages here. Two pages.
Hillary Clinton (04:01:24):
Yeah, that's true, here.
Speaker 26 (04:01:25):
So I want to give them back to you because they may have a notice or something on them.
Congressman Perry (04:01:31):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (04:01:38):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 26 (04:01:44):
Thank you.
Hillary Clinton (04:01:44):
Okay.
Speaker 27 (04:01:49):
Secretary Clinton, this is a email. The top of the page says, "To a Olivier Colom." I will stipulate to you that he was an advisor to President Sarkozy. It is Bates stamped EFTA01949592. The original email here is from Mr. Colom. And he asked, "Could you organize a discrete meeting between Sarko and Hillary Clinton in New York? If not, who should we ask?" Mr. Epstein replies, "Meetings with Hillary are not easily discreet. When?" We started to touch on this earlier. Are you aware of Mr. Epstein or any of his staff reaching out to anyone on your staff to set up a meeting?
Hillary Clinton (04:02:39):
I am not aware and I find it kind of weird because I know Sarkozy. If somebody was seeking a meeting with me and Sarkozy, he would not have needed to go through anybody else. He could have contacted me directly.
Speaker 27 (04:02:57):
Understood. And just to be clear, have you seen this email exchange previously?
Hillary Clinton (04:03:08):
Yes.
Speaker 27 (04:03:09):
And that was in preparation for today's deposition?
Hillary Clinton (04:03:11):
Yes.
Speaker 27 (04:03:13):
But no prior awareness of this email chain?
Hillary Clinton (04:03:15):
None whatsoever.
Speaker 27 (04:03:27):
Did Mr. Epstein or any of his agents attempt to set up any other meetings with you?
Hillary Clinton (04:03:32):
Not that I know of, but I have no idea what they thought they were trying to do.
Speaker 27 (04:03:50):
Secretary Clinton, we've touched on this a little bit, but just to make sure the record is totally clear here, you have said that you've never been to Mr. Epstein's Island. Is that correct? You have been [inaudible 04:04:04]
Hillary Clinton (04:04:04):
You know what? I am so tired of answering that question. If you have one scintilla of evidence to the contrary, put it forward. I have never been on his island, period. I've never been in his homes, his offices, his anything. So I don't know how many times you have to say the same thing over and over and over again. And I just am struggling with the relevance of all of this, but no, I never have been.
Speaker 27 (04:04:33):
And based off that response, that would include you've never been to Mr. Epstein's Manhattan town home?
Hillary Clinton (04:04:38):
I have not.
Speaker 27 (04:04:39):
His New Mexico ranch?
Hillary Clinton (04:04:40):
No, I have not.
Speaker 27 (04:04:41):
His Palm Beach residence?
Hillary Clinton (04:04:43):
No, I have not.
Speaker 27 (04:04:44):
His Paris apartment?
Hillary Clinton (04:04:46):
Didn't know he had one. Haven't been there. I also find it very interesting because I went back and looked at the transcripts of all of your other depositions. And none of the Republicans asked a single question to any witness about Jeffrey Epstein or any question that would help provide answers for his victims to any of the people you deposed.
(04:05:34)
In fact, the only questions that were asked were asked by the chairman to Attorney General Barr. And what were they about? They weren't about Jeffrey Epstein. They weren't about Ghislaine Maxwell. They weren't about victims and survivors. They were, "General Barr, I may jump in for a couple of questions. Were you aware of the involvement of Hillary Clinton and the Clinton campaign in the Russian collusion investigation involving President Trump?"
Mr. Chairman (04:06:03):
This is a deposition, Ms. Clinton. I'm if-
Hillary Clinton (04:06:05):
Well, I'm just saying you have kept me here for hours asking the same questions over and over again. I've given the same answers over and over again.
Mr. Chairman (04:06:13):
Madam Secretary, we will-
Hillary Clinton (04:06:14):
Not a single Republican-
Mr. Chairman (04:06:16):
If you could give us just a minute [inaudible 04:06:17].
Hillary Clinton (04:06:16):
... at any of your depositions has asked a question about Epstein or Maxwell. And it does seem to me that if the members were truly interested in getting to the truth-
Mr. Chairman (04:06:26):
Madam Secretary, I think you have enough [inaudible 04:06:28]
Hillary Clinton (04:06:27):
... you would've asked Barr, Acosta. Wexner you didn't even show up at.
Mr. Chairman (04:06:32):
Madam Secretary, I believe we are very close to finishing.
Speaker 27 (04:06:36):
Madam Secretary, did Jeffrey Epstein ever request any meetings with your state department officials?
Hillary Clinton (04:06:43):
Not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 26 (04:06:45):
That's been asked and answered, counsel. She said she's never talked to him. She said that repeatedly.
Hillary Clinton (04:06:50):
Well, I guess they have to hear it over and over again for it to-
Speaker 26 (04:06:54):
I think he can rely on your previous answer.
Hillary Clinton (04:06:56):
Yeah, whatever.
Speaker 27 (04:06:58):
Did Ms. Maxwell ever request any meetings between you and your state department officials?
Hillary Clinton (04:07:02):
Not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 27 (04:07:03):
Are you aware of any communication between your state department staff and Mr. Epstein or Ms. Maxwell?
Hillary Clinton (04:07:13):
I am not.
Speaker 26 (04:07:13):
[inaudible 04:07:18]
Speaker 4 (04:07:18):
Yeah. It's third and final round. She's staying [inaudible 04:07:23]
Hillary Clinton (04:07:22):
What?
Speaker 4 (04:07:22):
[inaudible 04:07:23].
Nancy Mace (04:07:22):
This is my third and final round. That's for me. Okay. That should make you happy. You stated earlier it was false that Secret Service was dropped from some flights with President Clinton and Epstein, correct?
Speaker 4 (04:07:34):
No, she did not say that.
Nancy Mace (04:07:35):
Who said that was false?
Speaker 4 (04:07:37):
Let the record reflect.
Nancy Mace (04:07:37):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:07:39):
So just for clarification, her husband has never signed off of Secret Service. That means anytime he is traveling or anytime he has gone anywhere, he has not signed off from Secret Service coverage, which means the Secret Service moved with them.
Nancy Mace (04:07:52):
Okay. Did you know the Secret Service was FOIA'ed by foxnews.com in 2016 asking for this information and Secret Service refused to provide it? I have a document here which we can provide to you.
Speaker 4 (04:08:02):
Is the question that because they refused to provide it?
Nancy Mace (04:08:05):
Information to the press about flight logs because on a five leg trip to Asia in 2016, it says, "From May 22nd to May 25th, not a single Secret Service agent is listed on the flight logs." And every other flight that he was on, they were listed on the flight logs. I had this from-
Speaker 4 (04:08:22):
Is your question for the Secret Service or is your question for the secretary?
Nancy Mace (04:08:25):
Well, I believe it was stated earlier that it was false. I'm clarifying that public was forced-
Speaker 4 (04:08:30):
What was stated is false. Can we just make sure ... Can you read back for the record so that you are actually stating the actual facts?
Nancy Mace (04:08:36):
Okay. I had stated earlier this afternoon, while we're burning time, I suppose, with the last final 10 minutes of this, it was about the Secret Service not traveling with Clinton. I asked a question about whether or not they traveled with President Clinton at all times. And when I stated that they did not, I heard, "False." We can get the transcript tomorrow, but this is a Fox News report that you all now have where it states that the Secret Service did not fly with President Clinton on all flight legs with him. So I wanted to clarify the record.
Speaker 26 (04:09:06):
[inaudible 04:09:07]
Speaker 4 (04:09:06):
To clarify, you're saying that because Fox News reported that this, that the Secret Service are lying.
Nancy Mace (04:09:14):
They weren't on the flight logs on a five leg trip to Asia in 2002.
Speaker 4 (04:09:17):
Just clarify the question then.
Mr. Chairman (04:09:18):
I believe that was being asked of Madam Secretary, not for your testimony, Ms. [inaudible 04:09:23]
Speaker 4 (04:09:22):
I'm not seeking to testify. I'm seeking to clarify that she's representing what the secretary said and that she's not representing it accurately.
Nancy Mace (04:09:30):
Okay. We can quibble over something else then. Earlier, and I don't know if this got ... Did this get printed off earlier, this eight page interview with the victim, 3501144?
Speaker 27 (04:09:41):
This article will be Majority 18.
Nancy Mace (04:09:43):
Okay. So I have exhibit for Majority 19.
Speaker 26 (04:09:46):
I have it here, this article now.
Speaker 27 (04:09:47):
Majority.
Nancy Mace (04:09:47):
I don't know if this got printed off. This will be a document that I would like to enter as exhibit for Majority, I guess, what number are we on?
Speaker 27 (04:09:53):
1-9.
Nancy Mace (04:09:54):
19. It is with victim 3501.144, and the document would be - 032. I asked for it to print it off earlier, but I know that we've had issues with printing.
Mr. Chairman (04:10:04):
Can we go off the record for just a moment?
Nancy Mace (04:10:06):
Yes.
Speaker 27 (04:10:07):
Go off the record.
Mr. Chairman (04:10:13):
We will go back on the record.
Nancy Mace (04:10:16):
All right. All right. So this will be the majority exhibit number 19. And you have not reviewed this document. Have you seen this document before?
Hillary Clinton (04:10:24):
I have never seen the document before.
Nancy Mace (04:10:25):
This is the first time you've ever seen this document. Earlier today in my second round, I was asking questions. And I made mention about Bill Clinton, President Clinton's visits to Epstein Island and that a possible coverup about those visits. And I was called a liar, I believe, by somebody on the other side of this table. And so I told you-
Hillary Clinton (04:10:44):
I don't think I did that. Do you?
Nancy Mace (04:10:45):
... that I would provide this document and go over it with you. This is an interview by the FBI of an Epstein victim. It is 3501.144-032. And on page eight, which I'll give back to you, or I can read it to you, I'll give this back. If you can read the last sentence. Would you please read?
Hillary Clinton (04:11:07):
I'm not interested in reading something I have no idea what it is. If you want to read it, go right ahead.
Nancy Mace (04:11:11):
Okay. I'll read it. I was called a liar over this. So this particular victim stated on the record in an interview with the FBI, "Epstein wanted, blank, the name of victim number one, to say that, blank, victim number two, was a liar and that President Bill Clinton was never on Epstein Island." So I stated earlier for the record that Epstein directed victims to lie about your husband's visits to Epstein Island. I was called a liar. This is the document-
Speaker 4 (04:11:38):
If you recall, that is not accurate. The records will reflect and the court reporter can read it back with respect to whether or not President Clinton had ever been on Epstein Island. If somebody had represented that, that would not be accurate.
Nancy Mace (04:11:49):
So I said that-
Speaker 4 (04:11:50):
[inaudible 04:11:52] made a statement about you.
Nancy Mace (04:11:53):
... Jeffrey Epstein directed this victim to state a lie about Bill Clinton never visiting the island. Now on page seven for the record, which I know you've never seen, there's a fully redacted paragraph. And that fully redacted paragraph in the unredacted files of the DOJ revealed that President Clinton, it redacts his name, and it also discusses notepads that the victim wrote down in phone calls with Jeffrey Epstein because she was told to lie about another victim and lie about Bill Clinton's visits to Epstein Island.
(04:12:25)
I don't know why this information is redacted. And also the attachments in this file, by the way, there were notes. You cannot see those at the DOJ. They are still redacted, which is the reason we're here today. We want to get to the bottom of this and get the truth. My next question is-
Speaker 29 (04:12:38):
[inaudible 04:12:39]
Speaker 4 (04:12:39):
Excuse me. Was there a question?
Nancy Mace (04:12:40):
I'm making a statement. I want to know if she's ever seen this document before. She was aware. I was called a liar earlier. This victim was told by Jeffrey Epstein to lie about Bill Clifton.
Speaker 26 (04:12:47):
She answered that question.
Nancy Mace (04:12:49):
Okay. I was just answering the question for the attorney. I have Majority Exhibit Number 20 that I would like to enter into the record. And this is a page 88 of a federal case between Virginia Giuffre and Ghislaine Maxwell. On page 88-
Speaker 4 (04:13:06):
Can you hold one second?
Nancy Mace (04:13:06):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (04:13:06):
Oh, that's different. Thank you so much.
Speaker 26 (04:13:07):
Is this going to be 20?
Congressman Perry (04:13:13):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (04:13:16):
Could you hold for one second, please?
Hillary Clinton (04:13:18):
No, this is something else coming here.
Speaker 26 (04:13:20):
Wait a minute.
Hillary Clinton (04:13:22):
That's 20, I think.
Nancy Mace (04:13:24):
That's 20, right. He has in his hand 20. We are in your hand is ... Oh, that's-
Speaker 27 (04:13:27):
The other redacted page that we handed out was-
Nancy Mace (04:13:30):
The cover page.
Speaker 27 (04:13:30):
... a printout we got from the other document to hand to you guys the exhibit 19 she was talking about earlier.
Speaker 4 (04:13:36):
So we should be looking at exhibit eight right now. Is that right?
Speaker 27 (04:13:38):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (04:13:39):
And not anything related to the other document, right?
Mr. Chairman (04:13:41):
For the record, it is labeled exhibit 20, but the actual document states Exhibit eight on the front. That is correct.
Nancy Mace (04:13:48):
That was just a cover page I had printed off just because these documents are hundreds of pages. I'm not an attorney.
Speaker 30 (04:13:55):
Just to be clear, it's a single page of some exhibit to a court filing and-
Nancy Mace (04:14:00):
That's hundreds of pages long.
Mr. Chairman (04:14:01):
There are two pages.
Speaker 30 (04:14:03):
Could you please represent for the record what we're filing this is and what the title of the document is?
Nancy Mace (04:14:06):
This would be the Virginia Giuffre V. Maxwell federal lawsuit. It's case 115CB07433-LAP filed on the 1st of January 2024, and it's page 88 of that documentation.
Speaker 30 (04:14:22):
What's the title of the filing?
Nancy Mace (04:14:22):
It's the lawsuit.
Speaker 30 (04:14:23):
Well, there are many.
Nancy Mace (04:14:24):
I don't have the cover page.
Speaker 30 (04:14:25):
Is it a complaint? Is it discovery?
Nancy Mace (04:14:25):
I don't have the cover page for it.
Speaker 30 (04:14:25):
Is it interrogatories?
Nancy Mace (04:14:25):
And that document. You don't know what this is? Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:14:31):
Can we take a minute to read this please? Thanks.
Nancy Mace (04:14:34):
It's the first shaded paragraph I'm going to ask about.
Speaker 26 (04:14:36):
I'm going to ask these and the chairman asked me a question, he asked me about [inaudible 04:15:04]
Mr. Chairman (04:15:03):
For the record, counselor and counselor, the document is a case in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York in Virginia Giuffre V. Ghislaine Maxwell. And I believe the congresswoman has already stated the case number that is listed at the top of the document.
Speaker 4 (04:15:24):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 30 (04:15:25):
I was just asking what pleading it was. Is it the complaint? Is it discovery? I don't see the title of the document.
Mr. Chairman (04:15:30):
This would be the defendant's submission regarding search terms and notice of compliance with court order concerning forensic examination of devices.
Speaker 4 (04:15:41):
Thank you. Ready?
Hillary Clinton (04:15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 26 (04:15:49):
Who's filed this document? Who is-
Nancy Mace (04:15:54):
Ghislaine Maxwell.
Speaker 26 (04:15:55):
Maxwell filed the document and it was
Speaker 32 (04:16:00):
[inaudible 04:16:00] objecting to a discovery request. I don't understand what...
Speaker 31 (04:16:07):
Could you help us by providing some clarification there?
Speaker 33 (04:16:10):
That is the clarification that we have that this is her submission to the court regarding a forensic analysis.
Speaker 31 (04:16:19):
And by her, you mean Ghislaine Maxwell or?
Speaker 33 (04:16:22):
Ms. Maxwell's. Yeah. Ms. Maxwell's. Again, that is here. That is what this document is.
Speaker 35 (04:16:31):
Well, it's a single page of that document.
Speaker 33 (04:16:34):
Can we go off the record for a moment? We will go back on the record.
Nancy Mace (04:16:44):
May I ask you a question? Okay. So court filings, in this particular court filing, it lists you among 13 specific witnesses for whom Virginia Giuffre was seeking all communications. There are no allegations against you, but why do you believe you were included on this list with people like Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz, Emmy Taylor, the Dubins, Jean-Luc Brunel, Bill Clinton, and yourself?
Speaker 32 (04:17:09):
Objection. This calls for speculation. It's a partial document. The witness may answer if she can, but it's a list of names in a search term description.
Hillary Clinton (04:17:20):
I have no idea.
Nancy Mace (04:17:21):
Did you know at any point that your communications were sought after in this lawsuit?
Hillary Clinton (04:17:26):
I know nothing about this.
Nancy Mace (04:17:28):
So you were never made aware that your name was mentioned in this lawsuit?
Hillary Clinton (04:17:32):
This first time I'm seeing this.
Nancy Mace (04:17:33):
No one's ever spoken to you about your name in a lawsuit?
Hillary Clinton (04:17:37):
Not that I recall.
Nancy Mace (04:17:38):
Do you think if someone-
Speaker 32 (04:17:38):
In this lawsuit? Excuse me.
Nancy Mace (04:17:38):
Yes.
Speaker 32 (04:17:40):
A lawsuit or this lawsuit?
Nancy Mace (04:17:41):
This lawsuit.
Speaker 32 (04:17:41):
Okay, sorry.
Nancy Mace (04:17:42):
This lawsuit. So do you think your staff would tell you if you were named in a lawsuit? Would they brief you on it if you were being named in a public filing or in a lawsuit?
Hillary Clinton (04:17:54):
I don't know what this means. I have no idea.
Nancy Mace (04:17:56):
Your communications were sought by Virginia Giuffre-Roberts in her suit against Ghislaine Maxwell.
Hillary Clinton (04:18:03):
No lawyers that I'm aware of ever contacted me.
Nancy Mace (04:18:05):
No one ever told you?
Hillary Clinton (04:18:05):
No.
Nancy Mace (04:18:06):
You were never made aware of that?
Hillary Clinton (04:18:07):
Not that I recall.
Nancy Mace (04:18:09):
Did you ever vet the wedding guests of your daughter's wedding? Did you know Ghislaine Maxwell was coming?
Hillary Clinton (04:18:13):
She came as Ted Wade's guest.
Nancy Mace (04:18:15):
But you're a former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary of State, you didn't vet individuals at events for your daughter.
Hillary Clinton (04:18:24):
This was filed when?
Nancy Mace (04:18:27):
So it would've been 2024?
Hillary Clinton (04:18:28):
Yeah. Well, the wedding was 2010.
Nancy Mace (04:18:31):
I moved on to another question about the wedding, but I know that the chairman wants to ask some questions, so I'll-
Chairman Comer (04:18:36):
He's got a few more, then I'll ask the last question.
Speaker 27 (04:18:39):
Secretary Clinton, thank you again for being here today. I have one final question for you and then I will turn it over to the chairman. Would you say that being associated with powerful or influential individuals would give someone credibility? And in this case, Mr. Epstein used that as credibility around the world?
Hillary Clinton (04:19:04):
I have no idea what he did or did not do.
Speaker 27 (04:19:07):
Understood. Sure.
Chairman Comer (04:19:09):
Madam Secretary, if you're following this, and I'm sure you are, in Britain, with the arrest of Prince Andrew and the former ambassador to the British Ambassador of the United States, they were arrested, it's my understanding, not for sex crimes, but for potential treason or potential violation of national security protocol. One of the things that a lot of people, and you may call it conspiracy theories or whatever, but I believe, I've seen it on CNN, I've seen it on Fox, I've seen it in the Washington Post, the New York Times. There's a lot of speculation that he may have been an asset, and I know several questions have been asked about that today, and you've given a lot of advice for the committee on how we can move forward. And our objective is to get the transparency to the American people, to get the truth to the American people.
(04:20:00)
And by the documents being released, the estate documents that we subpoenaed, as well as the DOJ documents, we're already seeing many powerful men and women held accountable. So I feel like this investigation is moving in the right direction, but one of the things where we're stumped is how do we determine whether or not Epstein was a spy? Whether or not Epstein was trading secrets? Because he had people on the inside, especially in the Obama Administration, we're not saying you, but Obama's former counsel that then went to Goldman Sachs. Where do we go in this investigation to try to determine whether or not he was an asset?
Hillary Clinton (04:20:54):
Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate that question. And I can't say that about many of the questions, but I really do appreciate that question. And I think it's an absolutely essential question for you to try to examine and find answers for. And I think you said that you had either document requests or maybe even a subpoena to the CIA. I would also include the DNI. I would include any counterintelligence or appropriate unit within the Justice Department. I think you have to cast a wide net.
(04:21:34)
And now that, as you describe, the government in the UK is investigating both Andrew Mountbatten and Peter Mandelson, maybe they would cooperate with you in their investigation. And maybe you could reach out to the intelligence agencies of other countries that you're looking at. Israel has been mentioned. Perhaps that is one to be... I don't think Iran is going to cooperate or Russia, but I think you could certainly go to the UK and go to Israel and see if they would be at all helpful to you.
Chairman Comer (04:22:12):
In your experience as Secretary of State, and I know you were First Lady, but you were more active, in my opinion, than most First Ladies in the President Clinton's Administration. Does he exhibit characteristics... Is there a pattern that would lead you and your expertise to believe that he was an asset?
Hillary Clinton (04:22:37):
Well, there certainly is in the files, and I do commend you for getting as much released as you can. I hope you can get it all released. Hints of relationships with powerful foreign leaders, pictures, emails, meetings. He was clearly somebody who traded off of information.
Chairman Comer (04:23:03):
Exactly.
Hillary Clinton (04:23:04):
He liked to collect it and then he liked to use it. I don't know any more details than that. So he is certainly... I said earlier, the intelligence connections, the money connections, the crimes, those seem to me to be the three major elements of your investigation.
Chairman Comer (04:23:24):
And obviously, as the last question before my questions, he wanted to make the appearance, at least, that he had friends in high places. And you've seen the emails that have been released, and I know you've testified today that you've never met Epstein, but he's implied to people that he was very close to the Clintons. He's implied that he was very close with Donald Trump. He's implied that he was close with a lot of people who... Even Wexner denied that he was very close. I don't know how many of us believe that, but it's what he said under oath. And it's just amazing to me, and I think most Americans who are following this, how this guy could have Prince Andrew, a frequent visitor, have people from the Saudi royal family, people at the highest levels in several administrations.
(04:24:23)
And that's why we brought you in. We're just trying to get answers. And again, I think that one of the big questions, and it looks like that's the direction Britain's going, is, was he a spy? Was he committing treason in any country? So that's why we would welcome any advice if you have any thoughts after this or anything else.
Hillary Clinton (04:24:47):
Mr. Chairman, I want you to get to the bottom of this to the best of your ability, and I'm more than happy to offer whatever insight I might have, as you say, about the framework of this, and also about any further actions to take on trafficking to strengthen our response.
Chairman Comer (04:25:10):
And that's one more question. I think we've got one minute left or two minutes left. So you obviously stated in your opening statement that you were involved with human trafficking and trying to prevent that. With what you've seen in the files, what Epstein was doing with those girls, recruiting other girls to come in, does that meet the legal definition of human trafficking or is it more of prostitution? Because one of the things that we want to do at the end of this investigation, and I think Ms. Mace will play a big role in that, and Ms. Luna, and Ms. Simon and all the members in both parties, hopefully, is trying to strengthen the human trafficking laws. And some people have suggested that based on what they've seen, maybe some of that wouldn't have... The government couldn't prosecute him on human trafficking because it didn't meet the definition. Do you have anything to add?
Hillary Clinton (04:26:07):
Well, again, I don't know all the specifics that you have at your disposal, but I've also read in some of the press that he was importing women from other countries. So I do think there's a distinction, a distinction probably between what happened in the United States, but also what he was doing in other countries.
(04:26:33)
But really, Mr. Chairman, you have to study this and analyze it and then advise your other colleagues in the Congress, your colleagues in the administration about laws that need to be changed and strengthened and resources that should be directed because at the end of the day, girls and women were abused, whether they were abused through solicitation of prostitution and the lies and the promises that were made to these young women, and that in itself is just despicable.
(04:27:10)
But then a system that got close to customs agents, got close to local prosecutors. This man was a master manipulator, a con artist of the nth degree, and so anything you can do to try to understand the way he operated and how he really misled and duped so many people into thinking that he was intelligent and he was interesting and everything they say about him in the emails that have come out. So that would be a great public service to try to really understand this and to break it down into the different categories that you're looking at.
Chairman Comer (04:28:02):
Hopefully, we can do that in a [inaudible 04:28:04] manner, I believe.
Speaker 36 (04:28:05):
[inaudible 04:28:06].
Speaker 27 (04:28:08):
We'll go off the record. Thank you.
Speaker 34 (04:28:20):
We can go back on the record. Ma'am, I just have one clarification. It was an email chain that I don't think was actually introduced as an exhibit, so I can't point you to it, but it related to Howard Lutnick and some kind of event at Cantor Fitzgerald. I just wanted to ask, our understanding of that email chain is that you were not on it. It was Lutnick to Groff to Epstein, and we don't believe that you were part of that email chain. Is that also your best understanding?
Hillary Clinton (04:28:49):
That is my best understanding.
Speaker 34 (04:28:51):
Okay. Is there anything you would like to clarify or add to your testimony here today?
Hillary Clinton (04:29:00):
Well, I want to underscore how important it is to try to get answers to all of the questions that everybody has about what happened and who did what, and try to have some measure of both public awareness and accountability. So I've answered these questions to the best of my ability and I offered to the committee that if I can be helpful in any way, I would certainly be helpful because I think that these issues are important ones and they need to be addressed.
Speaker 34 (04:29:50):
And your answers today were to the best of your recollection, is that right?
Hillary Clinton (04:29:53):
That is correct.
Speaker 34 (04:29:56):
All right. I think with that, unless you have anything else you'd like to add?
Hillary Clinton (04:29:59):
Let me ask my lawyers, anything that you think we should clarify or...
Speaker 32 (04:30:05):
When do you think we'll have a transcript?
Speaker 34 (04:30:07):
Well, we can go off the record.
