Speaker 3 (00:01):
... session. The Honorable Judge Kierny presiding.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:01):
Good morning everyone. You can all be seated.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're good to go.
Leonard Jefferson (00:06):
Thank you, sir.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:11):
All right. We have Mr. Davis now. We're on record in State versus Davis C377407. Anything we need to address outside the presence of the jury?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Not from the State at this time.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:21):
What's our witness or a video?
Mr. Paul (00:25):
Witness for now, Your Honor.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We have two witnesses, then we're going to play 2009 and then after lunch, we'll have another witness. He's agreed to stay through Monday anyways, so that witness will probably not finish today.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:38):
Got it. Okay. Sounds good. Thanks for the lineup.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Sure.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:42):
I think at this time we can bring in the jury then?
Mr. Paul (00:42):
Yes.
Judge Carli Kierny (00:42):
All right, let's do so.
(00:42)
[inaudible 00:01:20]
Mr. Paul (00:42):
I can't do it.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
You stole my water?
Mr. Paul (00:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's your soda.
Judge Carli Kierny (02:55):
Do the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (02:57):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (02:58):
You may be seated. Good morning and welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are still in the State's case in chief, so I'm going to turn to the State and see who their next witness is.
Mr. Paul (03:08):
Yes, Your Honor. The State calls Leonard Jefferson.
Judge Carli Kierny (03:10):
Okay.
(03:10)
You do solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in this action shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Leonard Jefferson (03:47):
Yes, ma'am.
Judge Carli Kierny (03:48):
You may be seated. May I please have you state and spell your first and last name for the record?
Leonard Jefferson (03:56):
Leonard Jefferson. L-E-O-N-A-R-D J-E-F-F- E-R-S-O-N.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:02):
Thank you, Mr. Jefferson. Mr. Paul, whenever you're ready, you may proceed.
Mr. Paul (04:04):
Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Jefferson, on the weekend of September 7th, 1996, did you come out to Las Vegas?
Leonard Jefferson (04:11):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (04:12):
And where were you coming from?
Leonard Jefferson (04:13):
Los Angeles.
Mr. Paul (04:14):
And why'd you come out to Vegas?
Leonard Jefferson (04:15):
I was coming to attend the Mike Tyson-Bruce Seldon flight.
Mr. Paul (04:20):
Where were you staying?
Leonard Jefferson (04:22):
The Monte Carlo Hotel.
Mr. Paul (04:23):
And were you here by yourself or with somebody else?
Leonard Jefferson (04:26):
I was here with someone else.
Mr. Paul (04:28):
Did you go to the MGM Grand for the fight?
Leonard Jefferson (04:32):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (04:32):
Did you actually attend the fight?
Leonard Jefferson (04:33):
I did not.
Mr. Paul (04:33):
Tell us about that. Why didn't you attend the fight?
Leonard Jefferson (04:38):
I was just in the lobby, peoplewatching. And normally when we come to the flights, we just hang out for a little while and a couple people were asking, where they selling tickets, were we selling tickets? Turned them down. And then a couple I remember from there were from Detroit. They wore matching green suit and the guy offered us $2,500 each for our tickets. And we didn't pass it up and we sold our tickets.
Mr. Paul (05:08):
I guess you did miss much, right? Only a minute, 30 second fight, so.
Leonard Jefferson (05:12):
Yes, sir. And that's what we talked about on the way coming down. It might be another quick fight.
Mr. Paul (05:17):
Yeah. In the lobby area while you were watching people, did you see somebody relevant to this case?
Leonard Jefferson (05:28):
Yeah, I saw Tupac and his entourage come in.
Mr. Paul (05:32):
And then was that before the fight?
Leonard Jefferson (05:33):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (05:35):
How did you know that, that was Tupac and his entourage?
Leonard Jefferson (05:37):
I just recognized him. Just knew who he was.
Mr. Paul (05:40):
And had you had previous interactions with Mr. Shakur?
Leonard Jefferson (05:44):
Briefly, yes. Back in Los Angeles.
Mr. Paul (05:46):
Can you tell us about what those interactions were about?
Leonard Jefferson (05:49):
Back in those days, I used to sell cars and a couple people that worked for Death Row Records, I sold them a couple of cars and I delivered them to Can-Am Studios in the Valley. And I just happened to meet them or they introduced me to him and we talked about cars and that was it. Nothing major.
Mr. Paul (06:14):
So let's go back to Las Vegas on September 7th, 1996. You sell your tickets for a pretty good amount. What do you do afterwards?
Leonard Jefferson (06:24):
Continue people watching. Then we, I guess once the fight started, people were still hanging out and we decided to go back cross street to our hotel and we took our money and went to the crap tables.
Mr. Paul (06:38):
And by the hotel, you're talking about the Monte Carlo?
Leonard Jefferson (06:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (06:40):
And then at some point, do you decide to leave the Monte Carlo?
Leonard Jefferson (06:40):
Yeah, after a couple hours of being there. I got hungry and I wanted to call a California Pizza Kitchen to place an order. And they told me it would be like 20, 30 minutes. And I told my buddy I was about to leave to go to pick up my order. And I walked outside to the valet, gave him my ticket to get my truck. I had a Suburban back then. And once they brought it up, I drove out and went to the strip, went to the Las Vegas Boulevard. And
Mr. Paul (07:28):
You had said you were driving a Suburban?
Leonard Jefferson (07:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (07:31):
What color was that Suburban?
Leonard Jefferson (07:32):
White.
Mr. Paul (07:33):
And just for the folks at down the road, a white Suburban is a big white SUV, is that correct?
Leonard Jefferson (07:38):
Yes. Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (07:39):
Then when you were driving down Las Vegas Boulevard, were you headed toward driving north towards the Stratosphere, I guess, as a marker?
Leonard Jefferson (07:48):
Yeah, I was headed north. Yes.
Mr. Paul (07:50):
And while you were driving north on Las Vegas Boulevard, did you see anybody that you had met earlier?
Leonard Jefferson (07:58):
Yeah, I was stopped at a light and a car rolled up. Well, really the wheels really caught my attention. And then I looked up and I saw it was Tupac and Suge sitting in the car.
Mr. Paul (08:11):
Did you try to interact with Mr. Shakur or Mr. Knight?
Leonard Jefferson (08:15):
With Tupac, I did.
Mr. Paul (08:16):
Okay. And what happened? Can you tell us about that?
Leonard Jefferson (08:18):
Yeah, I said, "Hey, what up, Pac?" And then he kind of looked and kind of took like a double take and said, "Oh, what up, man?" And then I said, "Hey, where you guys headed?" He said, "We're headed to the club. You should follow us." I said, "All right, cool." And then I don't know. I said, "Man, let me get a picture real quick." And I had my camera in my center console, so I just grabbed my camera and snapped the picture.
Mr. Paul (08:45):
So this was before iPhone, so you actually had a physical camera with you?
Leonard Jefferson (08:49):
Yeah, I had a 35 millimeter camera.
Mr. Paul (08:54):
I'm going to show you what's been previously admitted as State's Exhibit number three. Do you recognize what's being shown to you?
Leonard Jefferson (09:04):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (09:05):
What is that?
Leonard Jefferson (09:05):
That's the picture that I took.
Mr. Paul (09:09):
Now, after taking the picture, so you took this picture at a red light?
Leonard Jefferson (09:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (09:13):
And I'm assuming the light turns green at some point?
Leonard Jefferson (09:15):
Yes, it does.
Mr. Paul (09:16):
What do you do?
Leonard Jefferson (09:18):
After I took the picture, the light changed green and they took off and I recognized one or two of the cars that are behind them from seeing them from LA. So I let them go by and then they got in front of me. And then I got three cars behind them, behind the BMW. And then we were just driving down Las Vegas Boulevard.
Mr. Paul (09:46):
At some point, do you make a right turn?
Leonard Jefferson (09:48):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (09:49):
Can you tell us about that?
Leonard Jefferson (09:51):
Yeah. So I don't want to guess the street is. I remember Flamingo. We get to Flamingo, and as we're making the right turn, I get on the phone. I was calling California Pizza Kitchen to cancel my food order.
Mr. Paul (10:06):
Because you're heading to the club, right? You don't need CPK anymore.
Leonard Jefferson (10:11):
Yeah, I don't CPK. So I was on the phone with them like 30 seconds or so. And then all of a sudden I just hear pop, pop, pop. And I'm kind of looking around. And then I see the cars were stopped and I see the people in front. They were in the cars. They got out of the car and ran to the front. They ran to the BMW.
Mr. Paul (10:37):
So you hear gunshots?
Leonard Jefferson (10:40):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (10:40):
But do you see where the gunshots are coming from?
Leonard Jefferson (10:43):
I did not, no.
Mr. Paul (10:44):
And do you see who's doing the shooting?
Leonard Jefferson (10:46):
I did not, no.
Mr. Paul (10:48):
You just hear the gunshots?
Leonard Jefferson (10:48):
I just hear them, yes.
Mr. Paul (10:50):
And then when you are looking up after, it looks like you were kind of ducking down a little bit.
Leonard Jefferson (10:56):
Yeah, because I didn't know where they were coming from.
Mr. Paul (10:58):
After you look up, you see people from the other parts of the caravan get out of their vehicles?
Leonard Jefferson (11:04):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (11:05):
And which vehicle are they going towards?
Leonard Jefferson (11:07):
They went towards the BMW.
Mr. Paul (11:09):
And then what happens after the people start going towards the BMW?
Leonard Jefferson (11:15):
When they started running there, all of a sudden I see the BMW make a big wide U-turn going back towards Las Vegas Boulevard.
Mr. Paul (11:26):
Okay. And the BMW, I don't know that we've established this yet. The BMW, is that the car that Suge was driving that Tupac was in?
Leonard Jefferson (11:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (11:34):
Okay. And so Suge or Mr. Knight makes a wide U-turn?
Leonard Jefferson (11:39):
Yeah.
Mr. Paul (11:40):
And then what happens after that?
Leonard Jefferson (11:43):
The people, they run back to their cars. And actually one of the guys, I didn't know who he was, he tried to get in my car and I didn't know dude. So I guess he realized he was getting in the wrong car or whatever, I guess. I don't know what he was. So I got caught up in the little situation. I made a big wide U-turn as well. Now I made the U-turn. I catch up to... I'm behind the Lexus. It was a green Lexus. So I'm behind him and then we see Suge make the wide left turn back onto the strip. And he went up on the curb and came back down. And then we all went through the intersection. It was traffic coming through and we just all made it through. And then we got to, I guess, Harmon. We got back to Harmon and Suge makes another left turn. And now it's like cross traffic. He couldn't get through.
(12:41)
And by this time, now we see the motor... Not motor, I'm sorry, bicycle cops. There's a bicycle cop rolls up and Suge is kind of like stop here. This is Las Vegas. This is the street he turns on. So he's just stopped. And then the cop drops his bike and I start to get out. Then I got back in once I saw the cops or whatever. And then what happened?
Mr. Paul (13:11):
Okay. So you're in the middle of Harmon and Las Vegas?
Leonard Jefferson (13:14):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (13:14):
And Mr. Knight's car is just stopped at this point?
Leonard Jefferson (13:17):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (13:18):
And you stop as well?
Leonard Jefferson (13:21):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (13:22):
Are there any other cars that stop along with Mr. Knight's car?
Leonard Jefferson (13:26):
Yeah, I'm stopped behind the green Lexus. I'm really right behind him in the turning lane.
Mr. Paul (13:31):
So there's the BMW that Mr. Knight's driving.
Leonard Jefferson (13:36):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (13:37):
You have a green Lexus and you have a white, your white-
Leonard Jefferson (13:40):
White Suburban.
Mr. Paul (13:41):
... Suburban that you're aware of. And then you said you were going to get out of your car, you see bike cops, and then you decide to stay in your car?
Leonard Jefferson (13:48):
Got back in, yes.
Mr. Paul (13:50):
What do you see as you're inside your car? Do you look at the BMW at all?
Leonard Jefferson (13:54):
I look at it and then I see, like I said, the bicycle cop rolled up and then he drops his bike. And then I see Suge getting out the car. And now the officer is yelling commands for him, "Get down, lay down." And you hear Suge saying, "My man Pac got shot. Pac got shot. We need help. Pac got shot." And then the cops, I kind of blanked out. I didn't really hear what he said. And then the cop for whatever walked over there to Suge. Suge got up and they walked over to the passenger side of the car.
Mr. Paul (14:30):
Okay. And so initially, is it fair to say there's one bike cop or are there multiple bike cops immediately?
Leonard Jefferson (14:35):
Well, I saw one, but then others came.
Mr. Paul (14:40):
Okay. So you-
Leonard Jefferson (14:40):
But one immediately. I saw one immediately.
Mr. Paul (14:41):
Okay. So the one immediately shows up and then other bike cops show up afterwards?
Leonard Jefferson (14:47):
Yes. Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (14:48):
Okay. And then the one bite cop, he's the one that's talking to Mr. Knight. And then at some point, do they go over to the passenger side and deal with Mr. Shakur?
Leonard Jefferson (14:58):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (14:58):
Can you tell us about that?
Leonard Jefferson (14:59):
Well, at that time when that occurred, a police officer rolled up in a vehicle. He ran up and pulled a gun on me and ordered me out of the car. He opened my door and just threw me down, snatched me out of the car and threw me down on the ground. Now I'm prone down on the ground. I'm in the direction I'm facing. I could see what's going on with the police and Suge.
Mr. Paul (15:29):
Okay. Did the officer give you an explanation as to why he was treating you in such a manner?
Leonard Jefferson (15:36):
Yeah. I said, "Hey, what's going on?" He said, "We have witnesses saying that you were part of their entourage."
Mr. Paul (15:42):
Okay. And at that point, when you're prone and looking at what's going on at the BMW, what do you do?
Leonard Jefferson (15:52):
I see that they were kind of struggling with the door. They get the door open and then I see they pulled Tupac out of the car.
Mr. Paul (16:02):
And were you able to observe Mr. Shakur?
Leonard Jefferson (16:05):
Not really. I saw the movement, but I didn't see what happened after he got out the car.
Mr. Paul (16:12):
All right. So what happens after that?
Leonard Jefferson (16:14):
The cop is, he sets me up now. He's asked me for my ID, where I'm from, what am I doing here? Where am I staying? And he's writing down the information. I don't know if it was his partner or just another cop that was searching my Suburban, looking at whatever they do.
Mr. Paul (16:44):
Yeah. Your Honor, I'm going to approach the witness with state's proposed exhibits 149 and 150?
Judge Carli Kierny (16:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I'm sorry, Mr. Paul [inaudible 00:16:55]
Mr. Paul (17:09):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 150. Do you recognize the people in State's 150?
Leonard Jefferson (17:16):
I don't know. At the time, I didn't know their names. I just that's me sitting here. I had the black pants with a tuxedo type vest and white T-shirt. And I learned this is E.D.I, E.D.I Mean. And at the time, I didn't know their names.
Mr. Paul (17:36):
Okay. All right. Have you subsequently met or learned their names since then?
Leonard Jefferson (17:39):
I've learned their names and I met E.D.I a couple times, just out and about.
Mr. Paul (17:44):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 149. Since that night, have you learned who these people's names are?
Leonard Jefferson (17:52):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (17:53):
And does this accurately reflect who their names are?
Leonard Jefferson (17:56):
It says their names. I can't say if it's them or not, but yes.
Mr. Paul (18:02):
Okay. I'm going to move State's 149, 150 into evidence.
Judge Carli Kierny (18:05):
Any objection?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (18:18):
One moment, Your Honor.
Mr. Paul (18:18):
Your Honor, at this time I'm just going to move in 149.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (18:21):
No objection to 149, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (18:21):
149 will be admitted.
Mr. Paul (18:24):
I'm sorry, 150.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
He meant 150.
Mr. Paul (18:25):
150.
Judge Carli Kierny (18:28):
149 will not be admitted. 150 will be admitted.
Mr. Paul (18:32):
Can we publish 150?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (18:33):
Yeah.
Mr. Paul (18:34):
All right. Mr. Jefferson, do you have the mouse in front of you right there to your-
Leonard Jefferson (18:41):
Oh, right here? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Mr. Paul (18:43):
All right. Can you use the mouse and show us if you see yourself in this?
Leonard Jefferson (18:48):
Yeah, this is me right here.
Mr. Paul (18:50):
And then you said there was somebody next to you that you came to know?
Leonard Jefferson (18:55):
Yeah. I learned this was E.D.I Mean.
Mr. Paul (18:58):
Okay. Approximately when in this night is this photo taken from?
Leonard Jefferson (19:09):
I don't know the exact time, but-
Mr. Paul (19:11):
In a sequence of events. I don't need a time, but this is after you get pulled out of your vehicle?
Leonard Jefferson (19:15):
No.
Mr. Paul (19:16):
When is this? When you come back?
Leonard Jefferson (19:18):
When I come back, yes.
Mr. Paul (19:19):
Okay. All right. So then we'll get to that.
Leonard Jefferson (19:20):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (19:23):
So at some point, are you released from the scene, told you can go?
Leonard Jefferson (19:26):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (19:27):
And where do you go?
Leonard Jefferson (19:29):
I go back to my hotel.
Mr. Paul (19:31):
And what do you do at the hotel?
Leonard Jefferson (19:33):
I go back to the craft table where my buddy was, and I'm talking to him, telling him what's going on.
Mr. Paul (19:41):
I'm sure it's a hell of a story you're telling him.
Leonard Jefferson (19:42):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Mr. Paul (19:45):
And then does anything happen that draws you back to the scene?
Leonard Jefferson (19:49):
Yeah. Well, while I was there, I guess I was there maybe 15, 20 minutes or so. And while I'm standing there talking to him, I get a tap on my shoulder. And it's a police officer. It's the same police officer that snatched me out of my car. And he said, "We fucked up. The detectives want you back at the scene, so we need to get you back at the scene."
Mr. Paul (20:14):
And had you at the scene told police officers where you were staying?
Leonard Jefferson (20:17):
Yes, I did.
Mr. Paul (20:19):
Now, when you get back to the scene, how does that happen?
Leonard Jefferson (20:24):
Oh, excuse me. The officer said that, "We see your Suburban still outside. We need your Suburban back on the scene, and we need you as well." He said, "Okay, well, I'll drive it back." He said, "No, my partner will drive your Suburban back and you'll ride in the car with me."
Mr. Paul (20:41):
Now, where did you sit in the car riding with the-
Leonard Jefferson (20:44):
I sat in the front seat.
Mr. Paul (20:45):
Okay. So you're sitting in the front seat of a police vehicle?
Leonard Jefferson (20:47):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (20:48):
And then another officer is driving your Suburban back?
Leonard Jefferson (20:51):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (20:52):
Okay. At some point, do they become aware that you actually took a photo of Mr. Shakur and Mr. Knight just minutes before the shooting?
Leonard Jefferson (21:01):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (21:02):
And how does that happen?
Leonard Jefferson (21:05):
Well, once I got back to the scene, the officer said, "A detective will come and talk to you." So I sat in the car 20, 30 minutes or so. And then a detective came over, talked to me, introduced hisself to me. And he just asked me what happened, describe what happened.
Mr. Paul (21:26):
And did you tell him, to the best of your recollection, what happened?
Leonard Jefferson (21:30):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (21:31):
And then at some point, did they ask for your camera?
Leonard Jefferson (21:35):
Yeah. Well, I told him that I was in the intersection. I took a picture and then he got that whole [inaudible 00:21:42]. And I said, "Yeah." And he asked me, do I still have the camera? I said, "Yeah, the camera's in my truck."
Mr. Paul (21:50):
And so do you give it over to the police?
Leonard Jefferson (21:52):
Yeah. Back then, we had the 35 millimeter where they had to self-rewind because I think I had either 24 or 36 exposures, but I hadn't exposed. I hadn't taken all the pictures. So the camera has a self-rewind where you could rewind the film. So I rewound it and I gave them the cartridge.
Mr. Paul (22:13):
Okay. So back then there was a roll of film, right?
Leonard Jefferson (22:17):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul (22:18):
And then you would load the camera by stretching the film across the bottom of it?
Leonard Jefferson (22:24):
Well, it wasn't that kind.
Mr. Paul (22:25):
Oh, okay.
Leonard Jefferson (22:26):
You just put it in and then it-
Mr. Paul (22:29):
Automatically did it?
Leonard Jefferson (22:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Paul (22:31):
Okay. And then when it was done, it would automatically rewind the film into the canister?
Leonard Jefferson (22:35):
Yeah. Unless you did the self-rewind and you didn't want to do the whole 24, 36 or whatever it was.
Mr. Paul (22:42):
And so you did the self-rewind and then handed over the film to the police?
Leonard Jefferson (22:46):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (22:48):
Okay. At some point, do they give you back the film?
Leonard Jefferson (22:51):
Yeah, a couple weeks later.
Mr. Paul (22:53):
And then do you develop that film?
Leonard Jefferson (22:55):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (22:55):
And is it at that point that you realize, "Oh, I have this photo?"
Leonard Jefferson (22:59):
Yes.
Mr. Paul (23:04):
Since that time, obviously that photo had become pretty famous. Is that fair to say?
Leonard Jefferson (23:10):
Yeah. Yes, it has.
Mr. Paul (23:13):
And as a result of it being associated with this case and the night of this particular murder, has there been some accusations of a conspiracy theory of you somehow staging the scene?
Leonard Jefferson (23:26):
Oh, yeah. Sure. Yes.
Mr. Paul (23:28):
And can you tell us a little bit about that?
Leonard Jefferson (23:30):
Well, the internet does what it does. It was set up. It was a movie scene. Yeah.
Mr. Paul (23:44):
That you had staged the scene?
Leonard Jefferson (23:46):
Yeah, I staged it. I currently work in the movie industry as a picture card coordinator, so they put that all together.
Mr. Paul (23:56):
Let me ask you this, sir, did you stage the scene?
Leonard Jefferson (23:58):
I did not.
Mr. Paul (24:01):
Nothing further.
Judge Carli Kierny (24:04):
Thank you, Mr. Paul. Cross-examination, Mr. Sanft?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:07):
Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Jefferson, are you aware that the picture that you took ended up on the cover of a book written by Cathy Scott?
Leonard Jefferson (24:15):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:16):
Did you allow for permission for that to happen?
Leonard Jefferson (24:19):
Yes. She licensed it through my agency.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:21):
I see. And with regard to that picture, I'm assuming at some point that you were able to sell the rights of that picture to people who needed to use that picture in furtherance of whatever project they had?
Leonard Jefferson (24:32):
Yeah, the agency that represented it, they did. They licensed it to different...
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:36):
Okay. And then with regards to the night, so your testimony is you're coming out of the Monte Carlo, you're on Las Vegas Boulevard, and you see Suge's BMW on Las Vegas Boulevard. Is that right?
Leonard Jefferson (24:51):
I didn't see it when I first got there.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:53):
Yeah.
Leonard Jefferson (24:53):
It pulled up next to me.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (24:55):
All right. So if I could just show you State's Exhibit number one.
Mr. Paul (25:01):
I have it right there.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:01):
That's one? Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked admitted as State's Exhibit number one first. And I'm assuming you're not from Las Vegas?
Leonard Jefferson (25:19):
No, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:20):
All right. So you just tell me if you can recognize this from this aerial view, what we're looking at here with State's Exhibit number one.
Leonard Jefferson (25:31):
I mean, based on what it says, MGM, Carriage House, Harmon And Koval Flamingo.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:36):
Right. In terms of where the Monte Carlo is, or was at the time when you were there, can you point out on this map where it would've been?
Leonard Jefferson (25:47):
Is this Las Vegas Boulevard right here? Where there's the cursor?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:51):
Oh, you know what? That mouse doesn't work.
Leonard Jefferson (25:53):
Oh yeah. It's not working right now.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:54):
If you could do me a favor-
Leonard Jefferson (25:55):
So where it says MGM Grand, is that the Las Vegas Boulevard?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (25:58):
Yes, but if you could just get up, sir. You could point to the screen up over there if you want to get up.
Leonard Jefferson (26:02):
You want me to get up?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:02):
Yeah.
Leonard Jefferson (26:02):
Okay.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:02):
Absolutely.
Leonard Jefferson (26:02):
All right. So is this Las Vegas Boulevard?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:02):
Yes, sir.
Leonard Jefferson (26:02):
Well, that's Harmon over there.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:02):
Let me ask you this question real quick.
Leonard Jefferson (26:07):
I can't tell where Las Vegas Boulevard is. Sorry.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:26):
No, that's all right. And once again, I just want you to be familiar with this. If you're not familiar with it, I'll just take it down.
Leonard Jefferson (26:31):
Okay.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:32):
Okay, that's fine.
Leonard Jefferson (26:32):
Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:34):
No worries. Yeah, you can back up on the stand. That's fine. And fair to say, of course, we're talking 30 years and you're not from here, so it would be very difficult for you to remember that kind of stuff, right?
Leonard Jefferson (26:47):
Remember what?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (26:48):
Details about on an aerial map where Las Vegas Boulevard is, maybe where Tropicana Flamingo-
Leonard Jefferson (26:53):
If I had a actual map to show where the street is, because it said Harmon on one area. If you could put it back up, that would-
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:05):
Sure. You want to jump back down and then-
Leonard Jefferson (27:06):
No, I can do it from Harmon. Well, it says Harmon. So Harmon. Oh, okay. I see. So the red dot is Harmon in Las Vegas?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:16):
Yes, sir.
Leonard Jefferson (27:17):
Okay. Yes. That's where I took the picture at. Yes. Gotcha.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:20):
All right. And that's where the cars eventually ended up anyhow on the way back?
Leonard Jefferson (27:24):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:24):
Okay. Now, we see on State's Exhibit number one, you have this Flamingo and this right here.
Leonard Jefferson (27:33):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:34):
Any reason to dispute that that's Flamingo?
Leonard Jefferson (27:36):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:36):
Okay.
Leonard Jefferson (27:37):
From what it says Flamingo.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:39):
Sure. Got to follow whatever the map say. You know what I'm saying? So let me ask you this. So I'm going to scroll in here real quick. You said you see them over off of Harmon, meaning Suge and Tupac over on Harmon and Las Vegas Boulevard.
Leonard Jefferson (27:57):
They were on Las Vegas Boulevard.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (27:58):
In the beginning?
Leonard Jefferson (27:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:00):
And that's where you took the picture of Tupac and Suge?
Leonard Jefferson (28:03):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:05):
And you're doing it from your Suburban?
Leonard Jefferson (28:07):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:08):
And then at some point they're saying, "Hey, come with us to the club." And I'm assuming at that point, you tell me if I'm wrong, you didn't know where 662 was?
Leonard Jefferson (28:15):
I did not.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:16):
All right. So you're just following the procession?
Leonard Jefferson (28:18):
Just following, yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:19):
So at some point, Suge's in number one, vehicle number one, there's two other vehicles behind it, and then you slip in as vehicle number, I guess, four in the line or three behind Suge?
Leonard Jefferson (28:30):
I think it was three cars back.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:32):
Okay. Behind Suge's vehicle?
Leonard Jefferson (28:34):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:35):
Okay. And then you are driving down at this particular point and you're going down Las Vegas Boulevard heading north, as you said before?
Leonard Jefferson (28:40):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:41):
And then you make a right-hand turn on Flamingo?
Leonard Jefferson (28:43):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:44):
And then you head down. Now, I just want to be very clear. When you get to that intersection, which would be the intersection where everyone stops, it was a red light?
Leonard Jefferson (28:53):
Yeah. I didn't make it all the way to the intersection, to Koval. I didn't make it all the way there.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (28:58):
Why not?
Leonard Jefferson (28:59):
Because I was back and I was, I don't know, like I said, three cars back. So I didn't make it all the way to the intersection.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:07):
The intersection?
Leonard Jefferson (29:08):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:08):
Okay.
Leonard Jefferson (29:09):
When I made the U-turn, I was in the middle between Koval and Las Vegas.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:16):
So how did you make your U-turn? You just-
Leonard Jefferson (29:18):
I made a big wide U-turn. I was in the second lane.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:21):
Okay.
Leonard Jefferson (29:22):
We were in the second lane, and I made the U-turn into the, I guess, third lane and went back over in the other direction.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:29):
I see. Now, when you make that turn, you come back over, you make a left back on, you're following Suge's vehicle all the way through.
Leonard Jefferson (29:36):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:36):
Are you still number three or number four in the procession?
Leonard Jefferson (29:40):
I think I was number two. I was behind the green Lexus.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:45):
Okay. And then when you get to this intersection, is that That's Harmon. That's Harmon right there. So that's when you stop your vehicle, you get out of your vehicle at that point?
Leonard Jefferson (29:55):
Well, they pull me out the vehicle.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (29:56):
Yeah. Yeah. They pull you out of the vehicle. And fair to say there's a lot of confusion going on that night?
Leonard Jefferson (30:05):
From who?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:06):
I would imagine with police officers, they arrive on scene, they don't know what's going on or who's who, right?
Leonard Jefferson (30:10):
Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:12):
But that night, can you describe for us the traffic when you were stopped? I Were there cars on the road? Were there people on the sidewalks, anything like that?
Leonard Jefferson (30:24):
Yeah, there was traffic. There was I guess you would say medium traffic.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:27):
And people on streets?
Leonard Jefferson (30:28):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:29):
All right. Now, when you first arrived and you had seen Suge and Tupac, can you describe for us a little bit about... they're in the vehicle and you recognized the vehicle, right? Because you-
Leonard Jefferson (30:40):
I didn't know the vehicle, no.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:41):
Oh. Did you see Suge and Tupac in the vehicle?
Leonard Jefferson (30:44):
That's what I saw. The wheels is what caught my attention.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:47):
The wheels.
Leonard Jefferson (30:47):
And then I looked back and I saw Tupac and Suge.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:50):
Okay. And were people running up to the car?
Leonard Jefferson (30:54):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (30:56):
And so when you ran up, Tupac, was he hanging out of the window? Was he sitting in his chair?
Leonard Jefferson (31:01):
He was sitting in his seat.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:02):
Okay. And when you have that conversation with him, of course, you're having a conversation and it's not like... You're not hearing people screaming out Tupac's name or anything like that at that particular point?
Leonard Jefferson (31:12):
No, no.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:14):
Now, in addition to that, you said that when you were summoned back to the area by the police, they told you to take your vehicle and actually put it back into the area that it was before?
Leonard Jefferson (31:31):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:31):
No?
Leonard Jefferson (31:31):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:31):
They just drive over to the area in your Suburban?
Leonard Jefferson (31:34):
Yeah. The officer drove it back.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:37):
I see.
Leonard Jefferson (31:38):
He didn't put it back where it was.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:40):
Do you know any reason why they would've just driven your vehicle back?
Leonard Jefferson (31:42):
They did drive it back.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:43):
I know, but why did they? Do you know?
Leonard Jefferson (31:45):
Oh no, I don't know. I don't know.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:48):
Okay. And when you were there, you had made mention that you had given your film over to Metro?
Leonard Jefferson (31:55):
To the detective.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (31:57):
And when you got it back, it still was not developed?
Leonard Jefferson (32:00):
It was in strips.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (32:01):
Ah, I see. So they had developed it?
Leonard Jefferson (32:04):
They developed it, yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (32:05):
Gotcha. So what you had was the negative?
Leonard Jefferson (32:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (32:08):
And then you printed from the negative?
Leonard Jefferson (32:09):
I took it to a 1 Hour Photo and they developed it.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (32:14):
Okay. Sir, I have no further questions. Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (32:17):
Anything further, Mr Paul?
Mr. Paul (32:19):
Nope.
Judge Carli Kierny (32:20):
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any questions for this witness?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Mm-hmm.
Judge Carli Kierny (32:55):
Okay. You have one?
(32:55)
Just a question from our juror. Can you recall the name of the detective who introduced himself to you the night when you arrived back on the scene?
Leonard Jefferson (33:02):
Kevin Manning.
Judge Carli Kierny (33:03):
Okay. Any follow up based on that, State?
Mr. Paul (33:06):
Nothing from the State.
Judge Carli Kierny (33:06):
Defense?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (33:08):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (33:08):
All right. Thank you so much for being with us, Mr. Jefferson. You are free to go. Have a good day.
Leonard Jefferson (33:18):
Thank you. Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (33:18):
State, who's your next witness?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Mario Diaz.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Mario Diaz?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes. One second. [inaudible 00:33:49].
Court Reporter (34:10):
You do solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in this action shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mario Diaz (34:15):
I do.
Court Reporter (34:15):
You may be seated.
Mario Diaz (34:15):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (34:20):
You may proceed Mr. [inaudible 00:34:23].
Court Reporter (34:22):
Sorry, may you please have you state and spell your first and last name for the record?
Mario Diaz (34:26):
Do you want me to stand up for it?
Court Reporter (34:27):
Usually he's standing when he does that part. Sorry, go ahead.
Mario Diaz (34:30):
Mario Diaz.
Court Reporter (34:32):
And may I have you spell it?
Mario Diaz (34:36):
Oh, M-A-R-I-O D-I-A-Z, D as in David, I-A-Z.
Court Reporter (34:38):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (34:39):
Thank you, Mr. Diaz. Now your turn, Mr. [inaudible 00:34:43]
Marc DiGiacomo (34:43):
Thank you. Mr. Diaz, what do you do for a living?
Mario Diaz (34:46):
I'm a filmmaker. I direct documentaries and I'm also a showrunner for documentaries and documentary series.
Marc DiGiacomo (34:53):
What does a showrunner mean?
Mario Diaz (34:56):
I'm basically the person in charge of all of the creative... I put together essentially the series from a creative standpoint. And I also make sure that all of the logistics of filming and editing the piece, just everything runs through me.
Marc DiGiacomo (35:17):
At some point, are you contacted by a company to create a documentary related to Death Row Records and the story of its rise and its ultimate fall?
Mario Diaz (35:34):
Yes. As I remember, my agent at the time called me and told me that there was an opening for a job directing a six part series about Death Row Records for a company called eOne. Actually, technically it was for Creature Films, which is a subsidiary of eOne. And so I went and interviewed for it I think a couple of times and I got it.
Marc DiGiacomo (36:00):
Prior to you becoming involved in... Well, you got the job. So prior to you getting the job, had eOne contracted with anyone to assist in that documentary?
Mario Diaz (36:17):
Yes. Before I came on, there were two consultants that were hired. Greg Kading was a former LAPD detective, and Mike Dorsey, who is also a documentarian, who has been following this case for a while. The defendant was also on board, I was told, and so was Suge Knight. They had agreed to participate.
Marc DiGiacomo (36:45):
Had agreed to participate. And you kind of motioned in this direction. Do you know the defendant, Dwayne Davis?
Mario Diaz (36:50):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (36:50):
And do you recognize him here in court?
Mario Diaz (36:52):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (36:55):
I don't want to make you go through all this. Is it this gentleman right here?
Mario Diaz (36:58):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (36:58):
May the record reflect the identification of the defendant, Judge?
Judge Carli Kierny (37:01):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (37:04):
Well, let me ask you this. Once you actually took over the job, did you learn whether or not the defendant was being compensated for his role in participating in this documentary?
Mario Diaz (37:19):
I was made aware that he was being paid, yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (37:21):
And ultimately, at the end of the day, who's the person who finally provided him the money?
Mario Diaz (37:31):
I was not in charge of the money per se. Somebody else was cutting checks. There's usually a protocol for that. So I don't remember exactly who it was. I know that I at one point actually handed him a check.
Marc DiGiacomo (37:46):
That was my question.
Mario Diaz (37:46):
Yes. Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (37:47):
You're the one-
Mario Diaz (37:47):
Somebody gave it to me and I made that handoff.
Marc DiGiacomo (37:52):
I know it's been some years now. Can you give us an approximate amount of money Mr. Davis was compensated for his participation?
Mario Diaz (38:00):
I don't remember the exact amount at all, but anywhere from 10 to $20,000, I would imagine.
Marc DiGiacomo (38:11):
And for that compensation, did you conduct interviews on camera with Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (38:23):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (38:24):
And how many formal interviews did you conduct with Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (38:29):
We did two interviews in the summer of 2017. I believe that they were maybe weeks apart from each other, and they were probably around two hours and change each.
Marc DiGiacomo (38:48):
And there would've been a camera rolling for the interview. Well, let's talk about the setup. Describe for me how you had this set up for the interviews.
Mario Diaz (38:57):
We conducted, we maybe did, I don't know, 30, 35 interviews for the entire series. We're filling up six hours of material for broadcast. So we did upwards of 30 interviews, and we mostly did them in a studio that the production company eOne had in the building. And we asked Mr. Davis to come to our building. We'd set up two cameras and he basically sat across from me and I asked questions.
Marc DiGiacomo (39:33):
Did you have a subject matter expert as well that you were able to communicate with during the interview?
Mario Diaz (39:44):
So yes, the aforementioned Mike Dorsey who was there during the interview. He wasn't in the room. He was in a separate room and I had him in my ear. So he would sometimes... We would communicate. I would sometimes text while the interview was happening just to corroborate certain things that Mr. Davis was saying.
Marc DiGiacomo (40:04):
And Mr. Dorsey, did he have the ability to hear what was going on inside the room?
Mario Diaz (40:10):
Yes. Yeah. He had his own speaker set up.
Marc DiGiacomo (40:15):
And did you subsequently learn that he had his own recordings of your interviews that were audio only?
Mario Diaz (40:24):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (40:31):
At some point, you wind up making this documentary. Is that fair?
Mario Diaz (40:36):
Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (40:37):
Now, to promote this documentary... Well, let me ask you this. Do you know what a sizzle reel is?
Mario Diaz (40:43):
Correct. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (40:44):
What is a sizzle reel?
Mario Diaz (40:45):
Well, a sizzle reel is traditionally used to... We put together a little trailer of sorts with existing materials about whatever the subject matter is. And that sizzle reel is used to entice buyers to essentially pay for the production of the series or whatever it may be, documentary one-off. So in this case, there was a sizzle reel made.
Marc DiGiacomo (41:14):
And that sizzle reel, did that sizzle reel get made prior to your involvement?
Mario Diaz (41:19):
I believe so, yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (41:23):
Obviously, once you became involved, did you wind up using some of that sizzle reel to kind of promote each episode of the Death Row reel?
Mario Diaz (41:39):
I don't remember that we did that. It was only used by the producers to drum up interest in the series.
Marc DiGiacomo (41:51):
Last night, did you meet with me?
Mario Diaz (41:53):
I did.
Marc DiGiacomo (41:54):
And did you watch the sizzle reel movie?
Mario Diaz (41:55):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (41:56):
Judge, I have the sizzle reel marked as State Proposed Exhibit 120. I would offer it at this point.
Judge Carli Kierny (42:06):
Any objection, Mr. Sanft?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (42:06):
No. No objection, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (42:06):
It'll be admitted.
Marc DiGiacomo (42:06):
You can switch it on to me.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (42:25):
[inaudible 00:42:24] I'm the only one alive that really can tell you the story about Tupac's ending. People have been pursuing me for 20 years. Newspapers, magazines. I'm coming out now to tell the story because I got cancer. I got nothing else to lose. All I care about now is the truth. This story starts in the streets of Compton. You go all the way to the streets of Las Vegas where Tupac was killed. All the people that was in Vegas that weekend, it's like a curse. Everybody was dead or got life in prison. It was a crazy night and I was a witness to everything that happened. And it will surprise you the truth I have to tell you.
Marc DiGiacomo (43:32):
Well, I guess who named it Death Row Chronicles?
Mario Diaz (43:36):
I think I did.
Marc DiGiacomo (43:37):
Okay. So the documentary you wound up creating was Death Row Chronicles?
Mario Diaz (43:41):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (43:41):
And did it air on a station?
Mario Diaz (43:45):
Yeah, it was on BET.
Marc DiGiacomo (43:48):
And BET is a network?
Mario Diaz (43:49):
Yes. Black Entertainment Television.
Marc DiGiacomo (43:51):
And how many episodes ran?
Mario Diaz (43:56):
We did six episodes of roughly an hour of each.
Marc DiGiacomo (44:00):
And prior to episode five, is there any audio or video that was produced or shown to the public of Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (44:16):
I think he's in it very briefly in a little promo that we show at the very beginning of the series, perhaps. I don't remember exactly. And he was also there to talk a little bit about Suge because they grew up together.
Marc DiGiacomo (44:34):
When you get to episode five, is that the point where you're about to tell... I guess episode six, is that when you tell the story of?
Mario Diaz (44:44):
Right. So the series really looks at the entirety of the Death Row Records history from the very beginning with Suge Knight. We introduced different characters, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, et cetera. And then when we get to episode five, we really delve into... Well, a little bit in episode five, but mostly in episode six, we really delve into the investigation. We wanted to update the public as to where the investigation had been up to that point.
Marc DiGiacomo (45:15):
And within those episode five and episode six, is Mr. Davis seen or some of his interviews with you released to the public?
Mario Diaz (45:29):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (45:31):
In addition to the fact that Mr. Davis is on there, did you have access to the 2008 proffer recording?
Mario Diaz (45:40):
I did.
Marc DiGiacomo (45:41):
And so when you produced episode, in particular six, are there times when Mr. Davis is on the screen and other times when you're using the proffer to tell the story?
Mario Diaz (45:57):
Yes. Yeah, we alternated between the interview that I conducted with him and the audio from the proffer that he did in 2008.
Marc DiGiacomo (46:09):
Judge, I have marked as State's Proposed Exhibit number 123, just the clips that involve Mr. Davis either face or voice from episodes five and episode six.
Judge Carli Kierny (46:20):
Okay.
Marc DiGiacomo (46:22):
I offer those at this time.
Judge Carli Kierny (46:25):
Any objection?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (46:25):
May we approach?
Judge Carli Kierny (47:08):
You may.
(47:08)
All right. So pursuant to the conversations at the bench, there's no objection to the admission. It will be admitted.
Marc DiGiacomo (47:15):
So I'm just going to go through these with you. I'm going to start in episode 105. And you can see that generally at the bottom, there's a timestamp there of when in the recording... Maybe I should back up. This was released when?
Mario Diaz (47:38):
2018.
Marc DiGiacomo (47:41):
And shortly thereafter, are you contacted by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department asking for the raw footage?
Mario Diaz (47:51):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (47:52):
At that point, were you able to provide the wrong footage?
Mario Diaz (47:57):
No.
Marc DiGiacomo (48:03):
Did you become aware that the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department was only provided what was publicly released in 2018?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (48:12):
Objection, Your Honor. Leading.
Judge Carli Kierny (48:14):
What's your response?
Marc DiGiacomo (48:16):
I'll ask it a different way.
Judge Carli Kierny (48:18):
Okay.
Marc DiGiacomo (48:18):
What was the only thing BET was willing to give us?
Mario Diaz (48:20):
What was aired publicly.
Marc DiGiacomo (48:23):
And so now I want to go through episode five and episode six with you. So the first one.
Video: Interviewer (48:33):
Did you hear someone say words to the effect of, "Hey man, let's get out of here."
Video: Orlando Anderson (48:37):
No. I seen him pulling people off of him. That's all I seen.
Video: Interviewer (48:43):
Orlando testified on Suge's behalf. Why'd he do that?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (48:47):
He paid it off. Paid us off. Oh, he gave up $60,000 to say that he didn't do nothing. But it didn't work because the next day of the judge said, "I could see him kick you in the head right fucking now."
Marc DiGiacomo (49:00):
So Mr. Davis told you a story about Mr. Anderson's probation, or sorry, Mr. Anderson at Suge Knight's probation violation hearing?
Mario Diaz (49:16):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (49:16):
And then the next clip.
Video: Interviewer (51:14):
Why are you now telling me what you're telling me?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (51:17):
Because I wanted to get the truth out.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
Now in that clip, he's not in a studio. Where are you guys?
Mario Diaz (51:19):
Here in Las Vegas.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
Well, why were you here in Las Vegas?
Mario Diaz (51:19):
We thought it would be interesting to film him where the shooting occurred so that he could walk us through it at the actual site.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
Now I'm going to go to episode six. And I'm just going to go with these each in order.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (51:19):
Man, I feel I'll still go to jail with that because this is federal.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
So in this video, you can see Mr. Davis walking, but is that him actually speaking to you or is that cut in from the 2008 proffer?
Mario Diaz (51:19):
I believe that's the 2000-
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
Want me to play it again?
Mario Diaz (51:19):
Yes. I probably can-
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (51:19):
Man, I feel I'll still go to jail with that because this is federal.
Mario Diaz (51:19):
That's from the interview we made.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
When you say the interview with you, the sound is not the same as when he's walking down the street? I guess you should ask that question.
Mario Diaz (51:19):
Yes. Yes. Correct. So he's there, it's like a little preview, what you're going to get later essentially. So we keep his... It's just his feet to create a sense of mystery. The audio comes from the actual interview that I conducted.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
In 2017?
Mario Diaz (51:19):
Correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:19):
Okay.
Video: Narrator (51:19):
And the last living eyewitness to Tupac's murder is telling his story.
Video: Interviewer (51:19):
Why are you now telling me what you're telling me?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (51:19):
Because I wanted to get the truth out. You ready?
Marc DiGiacomo (51:26):
That's clearly in the studio, both with the two different backgrounds.
Mario Diaz (51:31):
Yep.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:31):
Is it the same studio?
Mario Diaz (51:32):
Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:32):
Is it the same interview?
Mario Diaz (51:34):
Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:34):
Okay.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (51:42):
Okay. Are you ready?
Mario Diaz (51:51):
I can tell you why we did that technically, but it'll bore you.
Marc DiGiacomo (51:55):
The two different backgrounds?
Mario Diaz (51:56):
Yeah. The very next one.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (52:03):
Okay. You ready?
Video: Interviewer (52:04):
I am.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (52:05):
Okay. Well, they've been sweating me for the last 20-something years ever since that day that shit happened. Every other month, they was up there saying this is the rapper killer. You know what I'm saying? I've just been targeted. Just been on my ass ever since. Don't nobody trust me.
Video: Interviewer (52:24):
Why don't they trust you? Because they think you snitched?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (52:27):
Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (52:31):
Obviously that's all studio.
Mario Diaz (52:33):
Yes. Correct.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (52:39):
Okay. You ready?
Video: Interviewer (52:40):
I am.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (52:40):
Okay. Well, they've been sweating me for the last 20-something years ever since that day that shit happened. Every other month, they was up there saying this is the rapper killer. You know what I'm saying? I've just been targeted. Just been on my ass ever since. Don't nobody trust me.
Video: Interviewer (53:00):
Why don't they trust you? Because they think you snitched?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (53:02):
Yeah. All right. I'm ready.
Video: Detective (53:10):
Okay. Today's report is specifically on the Tupac Las Vegas incident.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (53:15):
All right. Man, I feel I'll still go to jail with that because this is federal.
Video: Detective (53:19):
What is said right here cannot be used against you.
Marc DiGiacomo (53:25):
So in this clip, it's sort of the last clip, but now you've led into and cut some of the proffering?
Mario Diaz (53:31):
Correct. Yes. This is where we first introduced it.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (53:32):
All right, I'm ready.
Video: Detective (53:47):
Okay. Today's report is specifically on the Tupac Las Vegas incident.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (53:51):
All right. Man, I feel I'll still go to jail with that because this is federal.
Video: Detective (53:55):
What is said right here cannot be used against you.
Marc DiGiacomo (54:00):
And so I'm getting the sense here that before commercial, you kind of lead off and with commercial, you remind people what they just saw.
Mario Diaz (54:07):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (54:07):
Next one.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (54:07):
Don't bullshit me and I won't bullshit you all. You know what I'm saying?
Mario Diaz (54:20):
That one's completely the proffer.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (54:21):
Don't bullshit me and I won't bullshit you all. You know what I'm saying?
Mario Diaz (54:24):
That's the proffer. We tried to identify it up top so that people would know the difference.
Video: Detective (54:33):
And you guys are all at the MGM. You guys go to the fight. Lead us through from there.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (54:39):
We went to eat. We were at the MGM in the restaurant. Zips. Some of my homeboys from East Coast Grips came in there and said Death Row dude shoot him, just jumped on your nephew.
Marc DiGiacomo (54:53):
That's a combination of both?
Mario Diaz (54:54):
Correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (54:58):
I forgot to ask this question. You said you were there. You said Mike Dorsey was there. You said Dwayne Davis was there. Is there any other person in that room as well?
Mario Diaz (55:09):
Mr. Davis brought his lawyer.
Marc DiGiacomo (55:11):
Do you remember his name?
Mario Diaz (55:12):
Wayne Higgins.
Marc DiGiacomo (55:14):
So he had a lawyer with him while doing this with you?
Mario Diaz (55:17):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (55:21):
And now I can't remember. It's this one.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (55:25):
Went to the parking lot. Me and Zip was together.
Video: Detective (55:28):
Zip. Eric Martin.
Marc DiGiacomo (55:36):
For the most part, although I think you hear Greg Kading's voice. Is that right?
Mario Diaz (55:39):
Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (55:41):
But that's Mr. Davis himself in the interview?
Mario Diaz (55:45):
Yeah.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (55:49):
When he asked, do we need some help? I got some jimmies in the car. Like yeah. Okay, cool.
Video: Detective (55:54):
All right. Where does he get the gun from in the car?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (55:56):
A little secret compartment.
Video: Detective (55:56):
Was it a Glock?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (55:56):
Yeah.
Video: Greg Kading (55:56):
Jip was-
Marc DiGiacomo (56:05):
That flashed up on Greg Kading's face. And do you recognize the person that's depicted in the photograph now here in front of you?
Mario Diaz (56:13):
Eric Martin.
Marc DiGiacomo (56:15):
Eric Martin. It says AKA Equan Williams. People refer to him in this case as Zip or Von Zip?
Mario Diaz (56:21):
Yep.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (56:31):
One of the homies said the Death Row guys going to have a concert at the 662 Club. So we went to the 662 Club. I ran the door at the 662.
Marc DiGiacomo (56:44):
I guess we caught a little bit of Mob James there.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (56:46):
Tupac and Suge didn't ever show up. So we left.
Marc DiGiacomo (57:03):
That's in studio?
Mario Diaz (57:03):
Yes.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (57:07):
Stopped and got some liquor. We was going to party and shit. Had our little drinks.
Video: Narrator (57:17):
Meanwhile, Tupac and Suge are driving-
Mario Diaz (57:20):
Also in the studio.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (57:21):
We came up Harmon and shit. Here he come in that BMW. All the chicks was like, "Tupac, Tupac." And he was like, "Hey," like a celebrity, like he was in the parade. If he wouldn't even have been out the window, we would've never seen him. My partner busted a U. When we pulled up, I was in the front seat. Happened to see my friend, Suge.
Video: Detective (58:05):
Suge looks over, he sees you?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:06):
Yeah.
Video: Detective (58:07):
He looks right at you?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:08):
Yeah, he looked at me.
Video: Interviewer (58:18):
You said the shots came from the back. Big Dre, Orlando. Who shot Tupac?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:27):
Going keep it for the code of the streets. It just came from the back seat, bro.
Marc DiGiacomo (58:33):
That's a mixture of both?
Mario Diaz (58:34):
It's a combination. Yeah.
Video: Interviewer (58:35):
I mean, honestly, what's your concern revealing who shot Tupac?
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:44):
What's my concern?
Video: Interviewer (58:44):
Yeah.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:54):
I don't have no concern. I just won't be saying I'm no fucking rat.
Mario Diaz (58:59):
Studio interview.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (58:59):
I gave it to Dre and Dre was like, "No, no." And Lane's like, "Give it here."
Marc DiGiacomo (59:12):
Obviously the proffer?
Mario Diaz (59:13):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (59:13):
I think we only got a few more left down here.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (59:21):
Went in the back, there's a hotel called the Carriage House. Got up out of the car.
Mario Diaz (59:26):
I think that's the studio interview.
Marc DiGiacomo (59:30):
Yeah. You have some graphics going on, but that's him in the studio speaking?
Mario Diaz (59:34):
Correct.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (59:39):
They pulled up in an ambulance while we were standing right there. That shit was funny as a motherfucker, come on.
Mario Diaz (59:41):
That's the proffer.
Marc DiGiacomo (59:54):
And then the last one.
Video: Narrator (59:59):
And his impression is that this guy had it coming.
Video: Duane "Keefe D" Davis (01:00:04):
I'm here, Koval and Flamingo. And this was the spot that changed my life. Forever. September 7th, 1996. The night of the Mike Tyson fight. Tupac jumped on my nephew. The shit went down. My nephew was young, 20 years old. He didn't do nothing to you. He didn't do nothing to you. Tupac should have kept his hands to himself.
Mario Diaz (01:00:47):
So that's a combination of the material we shot here in Vegas with the studio interview.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:00:59):
Sometime after the indictment in this particular case, is there a position change by the people who controlled the raw footage and intellectual property to what Mr. Davis said?
Mario Diaz (01:01:24):
Yes. Both the production company and the network I think agreed to provide it.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:01:30):
And were you at all involved in the reasons why they decided to provide it?
Mario Diaz (01:01:35):
I think I lobbied a little bit, but Mike Dorsey lobbied a lot stronger to get it released.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:01:43):
Was there any particular position that Mr. Davis was taking that caused you, Mike Dorsey, as well as the company to change their mind?
Mario Diaz (01:01:57):
Yeah. I mean, in general, we heard that he said that this was just for show, that he was getting paid, this was Hollywood, this was all just show business.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:02:12):
The term scripted came up as well?
Mario Diaz (01:02:13):
Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:02:15):
Was your show scripted at all?
Mario Diaz (01:02:18):
No. No. And I pride myself in making sure that my work meets the strictest journalistic standards. I did not coach him in any way. We had meetings where I generally, very brief meetings when he was in the office, where I generally told him sort of where I was going with my questioning, but there was no coaching, no coercion, nothing of the sort. Nothing was predetermined. I never provided questions ahead of time either.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:02:57):
And once you became involved, obviously there are other people you guys wind up interviewing that aren't Suge or Mr. Davis or Mr. Kading or Mr. Dorsey?
Mario Diaz (01:03:10):
Sure.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:03:11):
And any of those people, were they compensated for their participation?
Mario Diaz (01:03:15):
They were not.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:03:16):
So once you came on board, everybody else was uncompensated?
Mario Diaz (01:03:20):
Correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:03:24):
Did there come a point in time where you were able to provide a transcript of the actual videotapes of your interviews of Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (01:03:37):
Yes. I was contacted by Detective Mong. And is that his last name? Mong?
Marc DiGiacomo (01:03:46):
Mong. Yes.
Mario Diaz (01:03:47):
Suddenly he had a... And we talked for a bit and we took a statement and I then provided the transcripts to him of both of the sit down interviews.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:03:59):
And I'm going to show you something just for identification purposes, but I'm going to show you State's Proposed Exhibit number 113 and 114. Do you recognize at least the first page of those particular transcripts?
Mario Diaz (01:04:24):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:04:26):
And those look like the way your transcripts were provided to us?
Mario Diaz (01:04:31):
Sure. Yeah.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:04:32):
Okay. During the course of this, were you able ever to get, or was eOne Entertainment ever able to get us the tapes themselves, the raw footage?
Mario Diaz (01:04:46):
They did not. And I wasn't really privy to that process, but I think that they could not find them is what I was told. Or maybe they didn't try hard enough to find them. I'm not sure.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:04:59):
Were you aware that Mr. Dorsey was able to give us the audio copies that he had?
Mario Diaz (01:05:06):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:05:07):
And were you aware that there are small sections of the tape that are on the transcripts that aren't on his audio, but he also has things on his audio that weren't captured because the camera wasn't running?
Mario Diaz (01:05:22):
Correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:05:23):
Yeah.
Mario Diaz (01:05:25):
When we would break for a break or something or for lunch, he would continue recording.
Marc DiGiacomo (01:05:36):
I pass the witness, Judge.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:05:38):
Okay. Cross-examination, Mr. Sanft.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:05:39):
Thank you, Your Honor.
(01:05:55)
Mr. Diaz, good morning.
Mario Diaz (01:05:57):
Good morning.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:05:59):
Have you ever testified in a criminal case before?
Mario Diaz (01:06:02):
First time.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:02):
Congratulations. I would imagine it's a little bit of an experience for you. Let me ask you these questions real quick. So in terms of what you do for work, you are a producer or a director?
Mario Diaz (01:06:15):
I'm a showrunner is the technical term. I basically run the entire production.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:21):
Right. And obviously when we say production, it's something that would be considered maybe geared towards entertainment value, right?
Mario Diaz (01:06:29):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:30):
Now, in your career as in... And is it considered Hollywood what you do?
Mario Diaz (01:06:38):
Not necessarily.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:39):
Okay. But in terms of what you do, for instance, have you ever had to take a deposition before?
Mario Diaz (01:06:45):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:47):
All right. And in terms of what we're looking at here on this particular night, you were the director and the producer of this particular project?
Mario Diaz (01:06:58):
Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:06:58):
Okay. And you were working for, not Entertainment One, but for another company that was a subsidiary of Entertainment One?
Mario Diaz (01:07:06):
Creature Films.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:07:07):
Okay. Creature Films. Now, your testimony to us is that, hey, I'm just there. Dwayne Davis shows up for the interview. Is that right?
Mario Diaz (01:07:18):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:07:20):
Who reached out to him from your company to do the interview?
Mario Diaz (01:07:25):
I'm not quite sure who did the initial reach out.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:07:30):
Just want to make sure I'm clear here. In terms of your work, your work was just only to ask the questions and sort of verify the information that you had prior to the interview with Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (01:07:42):
Yeah. I mean, generally speaking, yes. I was there to ask the questions, make sure I got the material in order to build the series.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:07:49):
Right. And with what you were doing though, obviously there would've been a team of people with you, right?
Mario Diaz (01:07:55):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:07:58):
Now the series itself, there's an individual that's named in your series by the name of Greg Kading?
Mario Diaz (01:08:03):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:00):
... individual that's named in your series by the name of Greg Kading?
Mario Diaz (01:08:03):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:04):
Who was he?
Mario Diaz (01:08:06):
Well, I mentioned him earlier, he's a Los Angeles police detective, and he was a consultant on the project.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:13):
Right. So, his name's actually-
Mario Diaz (01:08:16):
A paid consultant.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:17):
I'm sorry?
Mario Diaz (01:08:17):
A paid consultant.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:17):
Right. So, his name was with one of the credits that was in the... When you do your credit part.
Mario Diaz (01:08:23):
Yeah, at the end. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:24):
Now, in addition to that, you had mentioned a man by the name of Mike Dorsey.
Mario Diaz (01:08:28):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:29):
And Mike Dorsey was also somebody who was what exactly?
Mario Diaz (01:08:34):
A consultant.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:34):
He was a consultant?
Mario Diaz (01:08:34):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:35):
And as far as you know, the two of them, Mike Dorsey and Greg Kading helped to write a book?
Mario Diaz (01:08:41):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:41):
And what was the name of the book?
Mario Diaz (01:08:43):
Murder Rap.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:08:45):
All right. Did you read that book?
Mario Diaz (01:08:46):
I did.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:05):
Okay. Your Honor, may I approach?
Judge Carli Kierny (01:09:05):
Sure.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:07):
Showing you what's been marked as proposed Defense Exhibit D as in David. Do you recognize this photograph?
Mario Diaz (01:09:17):
Mm-hmm.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:20):
And what is that?
Mario Diaz (01:09:20):
Cover of the book.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:20):
Okay, great. Your Honor, at this time I'd like to move for the admission of Defense Exhibit D as in David.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:09:23):
Any objection, State?
State (01:09:24):
No objection.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:09:24):
So admitted.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:24):
May I publish for the jury?
Judge Carli Kierny (01:09:24):
You may.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:50):
That's the book, correct? Or at least the cover of the book?
Mario Diaz (01:09:55):
The cover, yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:09:55):
Right. And I appreciate you being specific about this. Now, fair to say though that the book was really the core of what you were doing in terms of the information you'd received, right?
Mario Diaz (01:10:08):
So, we had both Kading and Dorsey as consultants, but I also interviewed other authors who also wrote books, and I read those books as well. In other words, this was not my only source.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:10:24):
Okay. And so, can you tell us who your other sources were that you read to help you with your documentary?
Mario Diaz (01:10:30):
I think there's a book, it was the first one I read, called Original Gangstas, which was written by Ben Westhoff, I believe, and then there was another book, and I'm not going to remember the title, by a woman called Cassie... Yeah, I don't remember exactly.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:10:54):
Okay.
Mario Diaz (01:10:56):
A very seminal book about...
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:02):
Your Honor, may I approach?
Mario Diaz (01:11:03):
... West Coast Rap and [inaudible 01:11:04].
Judge Carli Kierny (01:11:04):
Yeah. You can move freely.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:09):
I'm showing you what's been marked as proposed Defense Exhibit E as in Edward, do you recognize that photograph?
Mario Diaz (01:11:15):
Kathy. Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:18):
Okay. And is that a picture of the cover of the book by Kathy Scott you just referred to?
Mario Diaz (01:11:22):
It looks like it, I don't remember what the cover looks like.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:25):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:11:25):
Yes. Seems accurate, yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:28):
Okay. Your Honor, I'd like to move for the admission of Defense Exhibit E as in Edward-
State (01:11:33):
No objection.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:11:34):
Any objection, State? What was that?
State (01:11:35):
No objection.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:11:35):
Okay. So admitted. Sorry, I just didn't hear.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:11:45):
Thank you. Publishing for the jury. Is that the the book? What other books did you review prior to your documentary?
Mario Diaz (01:11:57):
Those are the only three I remember.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:12:01):
Okay. Now, fair to say, of course, you're in the business of drawing people to your work, right? You want people to purchase your work, view your work. Is that right?
Mario Diaz (01:12:09):
Sure. Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:12:10):
Okay. Now, in terms of-
Mario Diaz (01:12:12):
I'm not in the... I'm sorry, can I amend that?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:12:13):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:12:14):
I'm not in the business of drawing people to my work, I'm in the business of creating compelling television or television programming or films.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:12:27):
Okay. So, you're-
Mario Diaz (01:12:29):
It's a different standard.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:12:31):
Can you explain to me what the difference in standards are?
Mario Diaz (01:12:36):
I don't do... Okay. So, the best distinction I can draw is I don't necessarily do reality television, where it's just it's somewhat manufactured, it's bombastic, anything goes. I make documentaries, which are traditionally based in journalism. I'm out there trying to get to the truth of something.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:13:02):
Sure. Okay.
Mario Diaz (01:13:04):
And that truth, I believe, is compelling enough to draw an audience.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:13:09):
So, in terms of the direction that you have with the project, in this particular case, there was a direction, right? The direction was we're here to document the rise and fall of the Death Row record label, right?
Mario Diaz (01:13:25):
Absolutely.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:13:26):
And in terms of how Mr. Davis would fit into the idea behind it, is that it's with the death of Tupac Shakur and the shooting of Marion Suge Knight?
Mario Diaz (01:13:38):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:13:39):
Okay. Now, in terms of what you were doing though, fair to say that you had a direction, this is where you wanted to go with the project, right?
Mario Diaz (01:13:50):
It's an important element of the story, but it's not my final destination. My final destination is revealing the entire story of Death Row Records, which includes this unfortunate chapter.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:04):
Sure. And you want to be accurate about what you're presenting in your presentation?
Mario Diaz (01:14:10):
Yeah, to the best of my ability.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:11):
Right. And so, in this case, you turned to Greg Kading and this other person... I'm sorry, what was his name again?
Mario Diaz (01:14:19):
Mike Dorsey.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:20):
Mike Dorsey. For their verification of what was accurate and what was not, right?
Mario Diaz (01:14:24):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:25):
Now, do you recall a person by the name of Tara Long?
Mario Diaz (01:14:28):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:29):
Who's Tara?
Mario Diaz (01:14:30):
Tara was the head of E1 at the time.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:33):
Okay. And she was involved with the project on some note, right?
Mario Diaz (01:14:36):
Yeah. I mean, now that you mentioned it, I think she was maybe pivotal in bringing Keffe in. And I'm not sure how Greg and Dorsey came, but maybe through her, maybe through Creature, but again, they were there before it came on.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:14:55):
Sure. And in terms of Tara's participation, can you tell the jury what contract was set up between Duane Davis and the company?
Mario Diaz (01:15:05):
I cannot. I don't know what the details of the contract are.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:15:08):
So, you never saw the contract?
Mario Diaz (01:15:09):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:15:10):
And you don't know, you can't tell this jury, for instance, how much money was promised to Mr. Davis as a result?
Mario Diaz (01:15:16):
No. I can only guess because I handed him a check at one point, or various checks at some point, and I think I remember the installments were in the 5000s or something, but I'm just not sure.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:15:31):
Right. And you had represented to the jury before on the State's direct that you believed there was one check, but now you're thinking, okay, it may have been installments of checks, multiple checks, right?
Mario Diaz (01:15:44):
It could be, yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:15:46):
And the person that would have the most information about something in this would be Tara Long, right?
Mario Diaz (01:15:52):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:15:53):
Okay. Now, in addition to that, the terms of the agreement was that he was going to come in, give his interview, and then leave, right?
Mario Diaz (01:16:06):
I'm not sure what was agreed upon.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:16:08):
Now, you did how many interviews with him?
Mario Diaz (01:16:11):
Two.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:16:12):
Why?
Mario Diaz (01:16:12):
Two and the one in Vegas.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:16:16):
Right. But the two that were in studio, why did you do two?
Mario Diaz (01:16:21):
As I recall, he came in to do one and he was not dressed for the interview appropriately. I think he came in shorts and a t-shirt or something like that. And I thought that he was going to back out, so I asked him to sit down so that we can go through some of the questions, and so we did. And then, he ultimately decided to leave and then chose to come back in a suit and tie. And that's actually the interview that you see the most.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:16:57):
I see. So, what he came back in is what was basically requested of him to do, is to dress a little bit better than what he dressed that day?
Mario Diaz (01:17:04):
Yeah. Although, I think that was his idea to dress better.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:17:08):
Now, in terms of the first interview, do you have a recording of that?
Mario Diaz (01:17:13):
I don't have a recording, I have a transcript.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:17:15):
Okay. Is that the transcript that was referred to earlier? Is that a yes?
Mario Diaz (01:17:19):
Yes. Sorry.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:17:20):
Now... That's all right. And now in terms of your recollection is the next day you come back and you have the interview with Mr. Davis, the one that we're seeing snippets of right now?
Mario Diaz (01:17:30):
I'm not sure if it was the next day, but it was sometime after.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:17:34):
Now, in your presentation, obviously, there is a lot of, I don't know what you would call it in Hollywood, like tones, ominous tones, as Mr. Davis is walking down the street. That's obviously for some type of cinematic effect, right?
Mario Diaz (01:17:52):
Yeah. We're underscoring whatever, the drama of it.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:17:57):
Right. And it's just a build up, an interest in whatever that scene is.
Mario Diaz (01:18:02):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:02):
Okay. So, the view of Mr. Davis walking, can you tell us where he was walking and why he was walking in the direction that he was being filmed?
Mario Diaz (01:18:12):
The one in Vegas, you mean?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:13):
Yeah.
Mario Diaz (01:18:14):
He says it on the clip. He was at Koval and Flamingo, and he was there to walk us through what happened that night.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:21):
Okay. In terms of walking us through, for instance, do you film him being exactly in the lane, pointing to the other lane and saying, "This is the lane where this happened, this is the lane where women were," or anything like that? Do you have that?
Mario Diaz (01:18:35):
Don't remember exactly.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:36):
So, he's standing on the corner of Koval and Flamingo on some corner and saying, "This is where my life changed."
Mario Diaz (01:18:44):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:44):
Something like that, right?
Mario Diaz (01:18:44):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:46):
But in terms of specifics of where it was that everyone was located on the street, did you film him pointing to exactly where this was, exactly where that was, "Here I was, here I was there?"
Mario Diaz (01:18:56):
I think we did.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:18:58):
Okay. And that would be-
Mario Diaz (01:19:01):
But I don't think we have that transcript.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:02):
Okay. And once again, you don't have the transcript, you think you did, but as you're sitting here right now for this jury, you can't show that, right?
Mario Diaz (01:19:07):
I can't show it and I'm not entirely certain. But I would think that if I brought him there, it would be more than just to appear on camera for 30 seconds and say my life has changed.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:19):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:19:19):
And I do recall being there for much longer than that. Okay.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:24):
And once again, it should be captured on film somewhere, if it's from you guys?
Mario Diaz (01:19:28):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:29):
Okay. But it's not here today?
Mario Diaz (01:19:31):
No.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:31):
Now, in addition to that, your testimony is that you had... There were parts of the video that shows, I guess there was a proffer version, you said there was a proffer and there was a guy with a beard. Is that in the proffer?
Mario Diaz (01:19:45):
There was a guy with a beard?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:19:46):
Yeah. I saw a snippet, and it was just a glance. But it was a guy with a beard and you said it was the proffer, is it just the audio recording with the backdrop of some guy with a beard?
Mario Diaz (01:19:56):
So, what we did was we had the proffer audio, we had the interview that I conducted in the studio, and then we had some recreations where we brought an actor and some actors to recreate the setting of the proffer. And in that, Greg Kading appears, he's visibly in the room listening to the actor who's playing Mr. Davis.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:23):
Oh, I see. So, it was just a-
Mario Diaz (01:20:25):
It's a reenactment.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:26):
... dramatization, you could call it.
Mario Diaz (01:20:28):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:28):
Okay. Now, when you're setting that up and that's happening, that's Greg Kading's direction, right?
Mario Diaz (01:20:36):
Direction?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:36):
Meaning that he's telling you, here's how everything was, or this is how the room looked, or something along those lines.
Mario Diaz (01:20:41):
To some degree, yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:42):
Okay. Now-
Mario Diaz (01:20:44):
There were some camera considerations there too. Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:48):
And Greg Kading was being paid for his work?
Mario Diaz (01:20:50):
He was.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:20:52):
Now, he also at some point shares with you, I would assume, and you tell me if I'm wrong, that there was a proffer and the proffer was done in 2008.
Mario Diaz (01:21:03):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:04):
Now, your project was done again, I'm sorry?
Mario Diaz (01:21:06):
Say that again.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:07):
When was your project, when was it-
Mario Diaz (01:21:09):
2017 is when we filmed, 2018 is when it aired.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:13):
Okay. And you're hearing this from Greg Kading, and you understood, I was imagining based upon the proffer, that there was an agreement that, hey, he's going to give information, and on that information, he was not going to be prosecuted, right?
Mario Diaz (01:21:28):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:31):
Was there some condition that would, if there was a violation of that condition, would then cause the proffer to be made public?
State (01:21:38):
Objection. One, calls for speculation, two, legal conclusion. The court's already ruled on the admissibility of the proffer.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:21:45):
What's your response?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:48):
It's... Well, let me rephrase the question, Judge. Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:21:49):
Okay. So, I'll sustain the objection and you'll rephrase.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:21:54):
Let me ask you this. So, in terms of your interview... Is that a yes?
Mario Diaz (01:22:00):
No, no, no, I'm listening.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:22:02):
I know, but once again, when you say, "Mm-hmm" I just have to make sure it's clear for the record.
Mario Diaz (01:22:06):
I'm just listening to the question, so it's not a yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:22:10):
Okay. In terms of your recollection, was there a reason why, in your recollection, Mr. Davis could give his information to you?
Mario Diaz (01:22:21):
He could?
State (01:22:21):
Objection. Calls for a legal conclusion.
Mario Diaz (01:22:25):
There's no legal [inaudible 01:22:27].
State (01:22:28):
Why he could?
Judge Carli Kierny (01:22:30):
Are you just asking if he told him, or?
State (01:22:32):
Yes.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:22:33):
Okay. If you want to rephrase a little bit.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:22:35):
Did Mr. Davis, did you ever find out as to why Mr. Davis gave this interview to you in 2017?
State (01:22:41):
Objection, speculation.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:22:43):
Sustained.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:22:44):
Did you, at any point during the time period, ever know if Mr. Davis had violated the terms of his proffer?
Judge Carli Kierny (01:22:52):
Sustained.
State (01:22:52):
Objection.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:22:52):
Can you approach?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:24:53):
So, when you set up, or at least was the director or the producer of the project, at that particular point, all you know is that Mr. Davis is in front of you to give an interview?
Mario Diaz (01:25:03):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:25:04):
And when you had an opportunity to sit down with Mr. Davis, you went through an interview... And I want to make sure I'm clear here. Was the interview done in a way where he promised to tell you the truth?
Mario Diaz (01:25:21):
No. I mean, I would assume that he would tell me the truth.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:25:26):
Sure. But once again, though, it's not like you're sitting here right now, where you swore to tell the truth that you're under oath?
Mario Diaz (01:25:32):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:25:33):
And with regard to the information you did receive from Mr. Davis, did you at any point verify any of it?
Mario Diaz (01:25:41):
Yes, of course. I mean, that's partly why I had Mike Dorsey in another room.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:25:45):
Sure. So, it would be Mike Dorsey and/or Greg Kading confirming the information that you are getting from Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (01:25:52):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:25:53):
Now, in the event though that you believe that Mr. Davis was not giving you the information that was consistent with Mr. Kading or Mr. Dorsey's interpretation, what would have to happen at that particular point?
Mario Diaz (01:26:03):
Well, I mean, I also conducted 30+ interviews, so some of those other interviews in the show would corroborate what he said or not.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:26:13):
But once again, I'm asking you specifically about Mr. Davis.
Mario Diaz (01:26:16):
No, no, I'm saying, I'm talking about Mr. Davis's interview.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:26:20):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:26:20):
He provided some details in that interview that not only did I corroborate those with Mr. Dorsey or Kading, but I interviewed people like Mob James, I interviewed other people who could corroborate certain aspects of his story as well.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:26:37):
Okay. So, Mob James, you relied on his credibility, what you learned from him in order to determine that guy's credibility, Mr. Davis?
Mario Diaz (01:26:44):
No, I'm just saying there's just a big picture, I can't specifically say, oh, this little aspect of it was corroborated by Mob James, I'm just bringing him up as an example.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:26:54):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:26:54):
There are many other people that I interviewed as well.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:26:57):
And once again, I want to make sure-
Mario Diaz (01:26:58):
Including the two authors of the books that I cited earlier.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:02):
Right. And that would have been Kathy Scott?
Mario Diaz (01:27:05):
Kathy Scott. Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:06):
And then also-
Mario Diaz (01:27:07):
Ben Westhoff, I think his last name is.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:11):
Okay. And what you're telling us is that their books corroborated what parts? What details of his representations?
Mario Diaz (01:27:17):
It's too general a question to answer right now from memory.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:22):
Well, is there any other way for you to remember it? I mean, did you write anything down in preparation for your testimony here today?
Mario Diaz (01:27:29):
No, but I mean, I did prepare for the interview based on what I had read.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:35):
Now, once again, so your recollection is you used Kathy Scott's book and you used the other book as a way for you to determine whether or not what Mr. Davis was accurate in what he said?
Mario Diaz (01:27:51):
Just the circumstances of the murder, who the players were, et cetera, et cetera.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:56):
Yeah.
Mario Diaz (01:27:56):
Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:27:57):
And fair to say-
Mario Diaz (01:27:58):
I mean, again, I'm speaking very generally.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:00):
Fine. But in terms of the books themselves, were they books in which only you can get ahold of, or were these books accessible by the public?
Mario Diaz (01:28:08):
Accessible.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:09):
You purchased these books?
Mario Diaz (01:28:10):
Of course.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:11):
And in terms of the information that you had before you, was readily available information either through Greg Kading's book or in terms of Kathy Scott's book or this other person's book?
Mario Diaz (01:28:25):
Could you repeat the question?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:26):
The information that you were comparing was information that was readily available in Greg Kading's book, Kathy Scott's book, or this other book you had mentioned before? Ben something. Original Gangstas, the name of the book. Is that yes?
Mario Diaz (01:28:39):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:41):
Now, after the series had been put together, did you at any point ever ask Mr. Davis to come back and just double check the series before you published it?
Mario Diaz (01:28:53):
No, it's not common practice.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:28:58):
Sure. It's not common practice, meaning you are the one at the end to determine in which direction you want the presentation to go, right?
Mario Diaz (01:29:04):
Yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:29:05):
And that's, I would imagine, some type of artistic license given to you and your people?
Mario Diaz (01:29:11):
Sure. Yeah. The subject of the interview agrees to the interview with those conditions generally.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:29:18):
Right.
Mario Diaz (01:29:18):
And there's a release form that that person signs.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:29:28):
And do you know the whereabouts of Tara Long now?
Mario Diaz (01:29:30):
I do not.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:29:35):
Do you know if she's still working in the industry?
Mario Diaz (01:29:38):
I'm not sure.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:29:53):
One moment please, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:29:53):
Of course.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:30:12):
Just one final clarification. In the beginning, we talked a bit about this, I was trying to write it down. Blaze... That very first snippet that we had, it was like-
Mario Diaz (01:30:22):
Sizzle reel.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:30:23):
Sizzle reel. Okay. Did you conduct, was that your sizzle reel?
Mario Diaz (01:30:27):
No. I mean, it was for the same project, but it preceded me.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:30:32):
Right. In terms of that sizzle reel, do you know how it was created?
Mario Diaz (01:30:37):
I don't know the circumstances, I know he was brought... That's the studio we shot in. So, I'm familiar with where it took place, but I don't know who did it, when it was done, or anything like that.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:30:47):
And so, in terms. I'm sorry.
Mario Diaz (01:30:49):
I'm just going to add really quickly that the clip that was shown is a composite between the sizzle reel and then a promo that BET actually did for the show. So, somebody put that together unbeknownst to me or away from my control.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:05):
Okay. But you don't know who that was? Is that a no?
Mario Diaz (01:31:08):
No. Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:08):
And with the way it was filmed and the reels and so forth, you don't have access to those reels either?
Mario Diaz (01:31:08):
Of that sizzle reel?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:08):
Yes.
Mario Diaz (01:31:08):
In particular? No, I do not.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:08):
And I'm sorry, I don't know if I had asked you this question, I just want to make sure I did or not. The actual contract itself, did you ever see it for yourself?
Mario Diaz (01:31:43):
I did not.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:44):
And is it something that you would've signed as the producer or what do they call that? Producer or...
Mario Diaz (01:31:50):
Showrunner?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:51):
Yes.
Mario Diaz (01:31:52):
Is that something that I would've done, if...
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:55):
Yes.
Mario Diaz (01:31:56):
In some cases I have.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:31:58):
But in this case, you did not?
Mario Diaz (01:31:59):
No, no, no, these are the terms that came with the job.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:32:07):
Right. Was there any residuals here given to Mr. Davis as a result of his interview?
Mario Diaz (01:32:13):
Residuals?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:32:14):
Meaning that did he get any type of percentages if the documentary-
Mario Diaz (01:32:18):
Not that I know of, and that's unlikely for this type of show or project.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:32:26):
Can you tell us how much money was made from the creation of this particular project?
Mario Diaz (01:32:31):
No idea. I'm just a conduit. I make the show, I get paid for my part, and then it gets delivered, and then whatever happens with it, just let it go.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:32:43):
Do you get a percentage of whatever is made in the future on the project?
Mario Diaz (01:32:48):
I do not. Very rarely I get residuals through my union, I belong to the Director's Guild of America, sometimes there's very... I haven't gotten a check for more than $200 for residuals.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:33:05):
Yeah. So, in this project, you were just paid for your work and no further compensation at all?
Mario Diaz (01:33:12):
Not in the documentary world, it's not something that happens very frequently.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:33:15):
I see. And can you tell us the difference between, say for instance, a documentary on Shark Week versus one that you do?
Mario Diaz (01:33:26):
Those are very different things.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:33:29):
I mean, they're both documentaries.
Mario Diaz (01:33:30):
I don't work with animals, no. The requirements for that sort of thing, underwater filming, there's just very... It's like apples and oranges. If you want to draw a distinction between reality TV and what I do, I think that can be more helpful with that.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:33:51):
Yeah. So, there's reality TV, meaning you're filming a shark doing shark things versus what you do, which is more interpretive.
Mario Diaz (01:34:02):
It's not... I want to be careful about how I answer this.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:34:08):
Sure.
Mario Diaz (01:34:08):
Yeah. When you're just in nature looking at an animal, there is interpretation too, by the way. There's music added to it, there's other components that would fall into the category of artistic input. I would say the same is true of documentaries like this. But they're rooted in wanting to present something that's real and accurate. I mean, that's the school I came from.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:34:44):
But once again, that's an intention, is that always the case?
Mario Diaz (01:34:48):
Sometimes it isn't, it's certainly my intention.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:34:53):
Thank you, I have no further questions.
Mario Diaz (01:34:55):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:34:56):
Any redirect, Mr. Palal or Mr... [inaudible 01:34:59].
State (01:34:58):
Thank you, Judge. No, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Diaz.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:35:03):
Hang on one second. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any questions for this witness? Okay. We have a couple.
Mario Diaz (01:35:06):
[inaudible 01:35:13].
Judge Carli Kierny (01:35:18):
Parties approach. Okay, couple questions from our jurors, if you can answer. Did you hand him the 10 to $20,000 check before the interviews for the series?
Mario Diaz (01:37:46):
No.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:37:48):
How did the film studio obtain the audio recording of the 2008 proffer?
Mario Diaz (01:37:51):
It was given to me by either Mike Dorsey or Greg Kading, I can't remember which.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:37:59):
Did Duane Davis have any right to approve or edit what recordings or edits were included in the docuseries?
Mario Diaz (01:38:04):
No.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:06):
Was the proffer used to compare or confirm the story Mr. Davis was telling for TV?
Mario Diaz (01:38:10):
Yes.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:11):
How was the decision made to use the proffer for TV?
Mario Diaz (01:38:16):
In my case, I just wanted to present as complete a picture as possible. So, I used elements that perhaps were missing from the interview that I conducted from the proffer. So, it's just little bits that perhaps were not quite clear on what I did or vice versa.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:35):
And so, the decision was yours, I think is what you're saying?
Mario Diaz (01:38:37):
The decision was mine, yes.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:38):
Okay.
Mario Diaz (01:38:38):
Correct.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:39):
State, follow up questions?
State (01:38:42):
No [inaudible 01:38:43].
Judge Carli Kierny (01:38:42):
Defense?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:38:43):
So, I just want to make sure, sir, with your last answer, when you felt like something was completely covered, you used the proffer to help you with that presentation?
Mario Diaz (01:38:53):
When I felt that something was not completely covered, yes.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:38:56):
Okay.
Mario Diaz (01:38:56):
I used the proffer.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:38:57):
So, not necessarily his own words in the interview, but rather something that was in the proffer recording?
Mario Diaz (01:39:03):
It's the same thing, it's his own words.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:39:05):
I understand, but I'm just saying that the timeline here, you're talking about the interview that occurs in 2017 versus the proffer that was given in 2008?
Mario Diaz (01:39:07):
Correct.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:39:07):
Okay.
Mario Diaz (01:39:07):
Yeah.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:39:08):
No further questions, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:39:15):
Okay. Thank you so much, Mr. Diaz, for being with us, have a good day.
Mario Diaz (01:39:18):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:39:18):
You're excused. I think the next thing we're going to do is listen to the... Which year?
State (01:39:28):
2009.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:39:29):
The 2009 interview. Does anyone need to take a restroom break before we do that from the jury?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:39:34):
Yes.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:39:34):
We do. Okay. So, at this time we will take a restroom break, we'll do 15 minutes. During this recess, you are admonished not to talk or converse amongst yourselves or with anyone else on any subject connected to the trial or read, watch, or listen to any report of or commentary on the trial of any person connected with this case by any mean of information, including without limitation, newspaper, television, internet, radio, or form or express any opinion on any subject connected with the trial until the case is submitted to you. Thanks for waiting for that, the Nevada Supreme Court says I have to do it. So, we'll see you guys back here now at 11:05. Please rise for the jury. For the record, the jury has exited the room, anything we need to address outside the presence?
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:40:35):
No, Your Honor.
State (01:40:35):
No, Your Honor.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:40:37):
Okay. We'll be in recess.
(01:40:39)
Back on record in State v. Davis C377407. Anything we need to address outside the presence [inaudible 01:40:45]?
State (01:40:45):
[inaudible 01:40:46].
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:40:46):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:40:48):
Okay. Let's bring the jury in, as long as they're done with their restroom break.
Bailiff (01:41:08):
Stand for the jury.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:41:42):
Do the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
State (01:41:43):
Yes, Your Honor.
Mr. Mr. Sanft (01:41:43):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:41:44):
You may be seated. At this time, the State is going to play Exhibit 118, which was previously admitted, correct?
State (01:41:55):
Correct.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:41:56):
You may begin.
Detective D. Long (01:41:56):
This is Detective D. Long, [inaudible 01:42:04] 69.
Detective D. Long (01:42:01):
This is Detective D. Long, P-3969. I'll be recording a voluntary statement under event number 960907-2063, investigation of the murder of Tupac. Date and time of occurrence is 9/9/09 at 12:20 hours. We're in an LAPD office-
Speaker 4 (01:42:25):
LA Hidta.
Detective D. Long (01:42:27):
... called LA Hidta, H-I-D- T-A. With me is Detective Dupree with LAPD. I'm going into the interview room. Oh, person giving the statement, his last name is Davis, first name of Duane Keith, also known as Keffe.
Wayne Higgins (01:42:55):
Awesome. How you doing?
Detective D. Long (01:42:55):
Good. How are you?
Detective Dupree (01:43:00):
This is Detective Long, Las Vegas Metro PD. This is Duane Davis. And this is Attorney Wayne Higgins.
Detective D. Long (01:43:08):
Nice to meet you.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:09):
Just one?
Detective D. Long (01:43:09):
Yeah, just me.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:10):
Ah, shoot. Just got one. We all right.
Detective D. Long (01:43:24):
All right. Okay.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:24):
So you one of the investigating officers?
Detective D. Long (01:43:26):
Yes. The original investigating officers were Detective Becker and Detective Franks. I was at the original crime scene and they're no longer in homicide, so I've taken the case over.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:39):
Oh, okay.
Detective D. Long (01:43:39):
I've had it since 2000.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:40):
Okay.
Detective Dupree (01:43:44):
Okay? Mr. Davis, you go by?
Wayne Higgins (01:43:46):
You can call him Mr. Davis or you can call him Keffe.
Detective D. Long (01:43:50):
Keffe D? Is that correct?
Wayne Higgins (01:43:50):
Keffe, either one.
Detective D. Long (01:43:50):
Keffe, okay.
Wayne Higgins (01:43:51):
Yeah. Whatever you feel comfortable with.
Detective D. Long (01:43:54):
Okay. Actually, I took quite a few notes here, but I don't even know where I'm going to be going in this thing.
Wayne Higgins (01:44:02):
Okay. Let me say something to my client in front of you so he understand.
Detective D. Long (01:44:05):
Okay.
Wayne Higgins (01:44:06):
Yeah. This is like an informal meeting. He's just trying to get some information. There's no trick questions. If it's something you don't understand, just say you don't understand it for a second. But his intent is not trying to be crafty. He just wants to ask you questions and try to answer them truthful and we'll be out of here and that's it.
Detective D. Long (01:44:25):
Right. I have absolutely no intent of arresting you today. You understand that? All I wanted to gather is some information.
Wayne Higgins (01:44:33):
Yeah. He's not saying he's going to arrest you, but he's saying-
Detective D. Long (01:44:36):
No, no, no. I'm not-
Wayne Higgins (01:44:36):
Yeah. But he's saying he's not here for that. He's here to make sure everything's clear.
Detective D. Long (01:44:42):
Right.
Wayne Higgins (01:44:42):
And he wants you to be honest with him. It's not clear if you're not honest. Okay?
Detective D. Long (01:44:45):
Yeah, that's exactly right. You understand everything?
Duane Davis (01:44:47):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:44:48):
Okay. What's your name?
Duane Davis (01:44:55):
Duane Davis.
Wayne Higgins (01:44:56):
His real name is Duane Davis, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:44:57):
Okay. And what's your birthdate?
Duane Davis (01:44:58):
6/14/63.
Detective D. Long (01:45:01):
How old are you?
Duane Davis (01:45:02):
I'm 46.
Detective D. Long (01:45:06):
Is it D-W-A-Y?
Duane Davis (01:45:10):
D-U-A-N.
Detective D. Long (01:45:10):
D-U-A-N-E.
Duane Davis (01:45:11):
A-N-E.
Detective D. Long (01:45:13):
Middle name is Keith?
Duane Davis (01:45:14):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:45:17):
And where do you currently live?
Duane Davis (01:45:24):
9193 Lantana. Lantana.
Detective D. Long (01:45:24):
Lantana?
Duane Davis (01:45:24):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:45:28):
And?
Duane Davis (01:45:29):
Drive, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:45:30):
Drive?
Duane Davis (01:45:30):
Corona.
Detective D. Long (01:45:31):
Corona?
Duane Davis (01:45:32):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:45:36):
Do you have a telephone number?
Duane Davis (01:45:40):
Work or home?
Wayne Higgins (01:45:41):
Give him what works or just-
Detective D. Long (01:45:43):
Do you have a landline?
Duane Davis (01:45:43):
Yeah. 951-603-3474.
Detective D. Long (01:45:54):
Okay. And who do you live there with?
Duane Davis (01:45:55):
My wife.
Detective D. Long (01:45:57):
What's her name?
Duane Davis (01:45:57):
Paula.
Detective D. Long (01:46:01):
Paula Davis?
Duane Davis (01:46:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:46:04):
Does she go by any other name?
Duane Davis (01:46:07):
Clemens.
Detective D. Long (01:46:11):
Clemens. Okay. Now, we're going to be talking about Tupac. Is that right?
Duane Davis (01:46:19):
Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (01:46:20):
Well, whatever you want to talk about. I didn't brief him.
Detective D. Long (01:46:22):
Oh, okay.
Wayne Higgins (01:46:22):
You telling him.
Detective D. Long (01:46:25):
Well, Detective Dupree gave me a call and he says you may be help to me in the Tupac murder back in '96. Is that correct?
Duane Davis (01:46:35):
Yes.
Detective D. Long (01:46:36):
Okay. And back in 1996, you were living where?
Duane Davis (01:46:41):
Compton.
Detective D. Long (01:46:42):
On Burris Street?
Duane Davis (01:46:45):
On California.
Detective D. Long (01:46:45):
On California Street?
Duane Davis (01:46:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:46:46):
Okay. Did you have a place on Burris?
Duane Davis (01:46:49):
No, I didn't have no place on Burris.
Detective D. Long (01:46:52):
Okay. 1405 Burris, who was living there?
Duane Davis (01:46:54):
That's my dad's house.
Detective D. Long (01:46:55):
That's your dad's house?
Duane Davis (01:46:58):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:46:59):
Okay. And you had other family that was also living on Burris?
Duane Davis (01:47:01):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:47:02):
And who was that?
Duane Davis (01:47:04):
Lando and my sister, Gail and Rosen.
Detective D. Long (01:47:11):
Okay. Lando being?
Wayne Higgins (01:47:11):
Orlando.
Detective D. Long (01:47:13):
Orlando. Orlando what?
Duane Davis (01:47:13):
Anderson.
Detective D. Long (01:47:14):
Okay. I know you know that I know what you're talking about, but I need to hear it from you. I'm going to ask you really stupid questions. I just need to hear the whole answer.
Duane Davis (01:47:26):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:47:26):
Okay? Okay. So Orlando Anderson is what to you?
Duane Davis (01:47:30):
It's my nephew.
Detective D. Long (01:47:34):
And he went by what name?
Duane Davis (01:47:36):
Baby Lane.
Detective D. Long (01:47:40):
Did he go by any other name?
Duane Davis (01:47:42):
No.
Detective D. Long (01:47:42):
Lando?
Duane Davis (01:47:45):
Lando, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:47:46):
Yeah. Well, that's what I'm referring to because we've heard both. So I just want to know if that's the person we're talking about.
Duane Davis (01:47:53):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:47:54):
Okay. Did you have any other family over there?
Duane Davis (01:47:56):
No.
Detective D. Long (01:47:56):
Do you have a brother?
Duane Davis (01:47:59):
Brother.
Judge Carli Kierny (01:50:24):
Okay. We're going to start replaying or we're going to continue playing. Sorry.
Detective D. Long (01:51:05):
Okay. Specifically living on Burris, Kevin?
Duane Davis (01:51:11):
No, he wasn't on Burris neither.
Detective D. Long (01:51:12):
No, he wasn't? Okay. Where did Kevin live?
Wayne Higgins (01:51:13):
In '96, you're saying?
Detective D. Long (01:51:19):
Yeah, in 1996.
Duane Davis (01:51:20):
He lived in Norwalk.
Detective D. Long (01:51:21):
Norwalk?
Duane Davis (01:51:22):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:51:25):
Okay. Back in 1996, you were affiliated with a-
Wayne Higgins (01:51:31):
Gang.
Detective D. Long (01:51:33):
Okay. Thank you. You were affiliated with a street gang?
Duane Davis (01:51:38):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:51:39):
Which street gang would that be?
Duane Davis (01:51:41):
South Side.
Detective D. Long (01:51:42):
South Side.
Duane Davis (01:51:44):
Crips.
Detective D. Long (01:51:44):
Crips. And what name? You went by the name Keffe D?
Duane Davis (01:51:48):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:51:50):
Okay. I'm being told that you were running things for South Side. Is that correct?
Wayne Higgins (01:51:55):
What'd you think about that Keffe? What you think running things?
Detective D. Long (01:52:01):
Okay. Let's say were you a shot caller?
Wayne Higgins (01:52:05):
You're using street terms. Just tell him.
Duane Davis (01:52:06):
I was the boss.
Detective D. Long (01:52:07):
You were the boss. Okay. That makes it easy.
Duane Davis (01:52:10):
Ah, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:52:13):
Yeah. I just need to understand how things work. That's it. Okay? Now South Side, were they affiliated or were they assisting anybody at that time?
Wayne Higgins (01:52:24):
Assisting like what?
Detective D. Long (01:52:25):
Assisting. Now I understand Death Row was hooked up. Death Row Records was actually hooked up with Pirus.
Duane Davis (01:52:33):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:52:36):
Was South Side assisting anybody on the other side? You understand what I'm asking?
Duane Davis (01:52:41):
We was just friends.
Detective D. Long (01:52:42):
Friends with who?
Duane Davis (01:52:44):
With Bad Boy.
Detective D. Long (01:52:46):
Bad Boy Records?
Duane Davis (01:52:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:52:47):
Okay. That's what I was asking. And Bad Boy Records included who?
Wayne Higgins (01:52:53):
Tell me who you knew of Bad Boy in relationship with that stuff.
Duane Davis (01:52:58):
Puff Daddy, Biggie, Holly.
Detective D. Long (01:53:00):
Okay.
Duane Davis (01:53:00):
[inaudible 01:53:03].
Detective D. Long (01:53:03):
Biggie Smalls?
Duane Davis (01:53:03):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:53:03):
Puff. Combs?
Duane Davis (01:53:04):
You can say, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:53:07):
Puffy Combs?
Duane Davis (01:53:07):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:53:10):
Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't get your name.
Wayne Higgins (01:53:12):
Oh, Wayne. Just call me Wayne. Wayne Higgins.
Duane Davis (01:53:15):
Wayne Higgins?
Wayne Higgins (01:53:16):
Yes.
Detective D. Long (01:53:18):
And you're his attorney?
Wayne Higgins (01:53:19):
Of course.
Detective D. Long (01:53:20):
Okay. Very good. Okay.
Duane Davis (01:53:27):
You said something that stuck in my mind. You said I'm not here to arrest you today.
Detective D. Long (01:53:32):
No, I'm not here to arrest you. I am not here to arrest you. I am not going to arrest you.
Wayne Higgins (01:53:37):
Keffe.
Detective D. Long (01:53:37):
You understand me?
Wayne Higgins (01:53:38):
Yeah. He just wants some facts that maybe we have previously discussed, just straight facts because once you tell straight facts, he really-
Duane Davis (01:53:49):
Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (01:53:50):
I don't think it's going to be much of a basis for that discussion.
Detective D. Long (01:53:52):
The reason I said that, I just want you to know that you're free to leave. I'm not arresting you. That's what I'm trying to tell you. That's all I was trying to tell you. My wording was poor. Okay?
Duane Davis (01:54:01):
Yeah, bet.
Detective D. Long (01:54:02):
I'm sorry.
Duane Davis (01:54:02):
All right.
Detective D. Long (01:54:03):
Okay?
Wayne Higgins (01:54:04):
Yeah, he not trying to-
Detective D. Long (01:54:06):
I'm going to leave. I'm going to go back to Las Vegas. You're going to leave and go wherever you want to go.
Wayne Higgins (01:54:08):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (01:54:08):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:54:08):
Okay? We're good on that?
Duane Davis (01:54:12):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:54:12):
All right. Okay. I'm still building up to the night in September, and I'm trying to get some of the background information put together. That's what I'm doing. Okay? I understand that Kevin was there, Orlando was there. Who else went to California or-
Wayne Higgins (01:54:32):
Vegas.
Detective D. Long (01:54:32):
I'm sorry, Las Vegas with you or met with you in Las Vegas? Should I put it that way?
Wayne Higgins (01:54:39):
Telling the people he was around when he was in Vegas.
Duane Davis (01:54:44):
Corey Edwards.
Wayne Higgins (01:54:44):
And What did Corey go by?
Duane Davis (01:54:48):
C-Ray.
Detective D. Long (01:54:52):
C-Ray?
Duane Davis (01:54:55):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:54:55):
Okay. And he's South Side?
Duane Davis (01:54:58):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:55:00):
Okay. Is he still alive now?
Duane Davis (01:55:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:55:02):
Okay. Who else?
Duane Davis (01:55:05):
Andre Smith. Deandre Smith.
Detective D. Long (01:55:09):
I remember Deandre. That's Big Dre?
Duane Davis (01:55:11):
Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (01:55:13):
Excuse me.
Detective D. Long (01:55:20):
Okay. Who else?
Duane Davis (01:55:21):
Wendell Prince.
Detective D. Long (01:55:24):
Wendell Prince?
Duane Davis (01:55:25):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:55:26):
What did Wendell go by?
Duane Davis (01:55:27):
Wynn.
Detective D. Long (01:55:30):
Wynn or Wen?
Duane Davis (01:55:31):
Wynn.
Wayne Higgins (01:55:32):
Wynn.
Detective D. Long (01:55:32):
W-E-N or W-I-N?
Duane Davis (01:55:34):
W-Y-N-N.
Detective D. Long (01:55:40):
W-Y-N-N. Okay. Who else?
Duane Davis (01:55:40):
T. Brown.
Detective D. Long (01:55:44):
That's Terrence?
Duane Davis (01:55:46):
No, Terry Brown.
Detective D. Long (01:55:47):
Terry Brown. Okay.
Duane Davis (01:55:58):
Tracy Session.
Detective D. Long (01:56:06):
Spelled like that?
Duane Davis (01:56:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:56:07):
S-E-S-S-I-O-N?
Duane Davis (01:56:10):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:56:10):
And what did he go by?
Duane Davis (01:56:12):
Tre Dog.
Detective D. Long (01:56:13):
Tre Dog. That's South Side also?
Duane Davis (01:56:21):
No.
Detective D. Long (01:56:21):
Who was he?
Duane Davis (01:56:21):
He from Long Beach. He deceased too.
Detective D. Long (01:56:24):
Okay. He's Long Beach what?
Duane Davis (01:56:26):
Inside.
Detective D. Long (01:56:27):
Inside. Okay. Anybody else go down there with you?
Wayne Higgins (01:56:39):
Keffe.
Duane Davis (01:56:41):
Me?
Wayne Higgins (01:56:42):
No. Your nephew.
Duane Davis (01:56:43):
Yeah. Just us three.
Detective D. Long (01:56:45):
Yeah. I got Orlando. I got Kevin, Corey, Deandre, Wendell, Terry, Tracy. Your wife was down there too, right?
Duane Davis (01:56:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:56:52):
Anybody else?
Duane Davis (01:56:58):
And Kevin's wife.
Detective D. Long (01:57:00):
What was her name?
Duane Davis (01:57:02):
Gina.
Detective D. Long (01:57:03):
Gina what?
Duane Davis (01:57:04):
Davis.
Detective D. Long (01:57:14):
All right. How did everybody get down? I'm sorry.
Detective Dupree (01:57:20):
Was Orlando's girl down here too?
Duane Davis (01:57:22):
I don't know.
Detective D. Long (01:57:27):
Okay. Do you remember who Orlando's girl was?
Duane Davis (01:57:29):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:57:30):
Who was that?
Duane Davis (01:57:33):
Rashi. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:57:34):
Rashina?
Duane Davis (01:57:34):
Yeah, Rashina Smith. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:57:38):
You have any idea how to spell her-
Wayne Higgins (01:57:40):
R-A-S-H-I-N-A.
Detective Dupree (01:57:45):
I-N-A, yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:57:45):
Rashina Smith. Okay. Very good. That's his girl.
Duane Davis (01:57:48):
I don't know if she was down there though.
Wayne Higgins (01:57:50):
Not sure.
Duane Davis (01:57:50):
Not sure. I'm not sure.
Detective D. Long (01:57:53):
Okay. That's fine. How did you get to Las Vegas?
Duane Davis (01:57:58):
I drove a rental car.
Detective D. Long (01:58:01):
And was this a week before or the day of, the day before? Do you remember?
Duane Davis (01:58:04):
We came there like a couple of days before.
Detective D. Long (01:58:09):
Couple days before? And you were in a rental car?
Duane Davis (01:58:11):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:58:13):
Do you remember where you rented it?
Duane Davis (01:58:13):
Avis in Long Beach.
Detective D. Long (01:58:20):
Did you know anybody at the Avis?
Duane Davis (01:58:21):
No.
Detective D. Long (01:58:22):
Or just walk in and rent it? Okay. What kind of car did you rent?
Duane Davis (01:58:25):
I think it was a Cutlass or Buick Regal. Regal or Cutlass, one of the two. It was green.
Detective D. Long (01:58:41):
And who all rode down with you?
Duane Davis (01:58:44):
Me and my wife.
Detective D. Long (01:58:46):
Just you and your wife?
Duane Davis (01:58:47):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (01:58:48):
Where'd you stay?
Duane Davis (01:58:50):
I stayed at, what, Monte Carlo.
Detective D. Long (01:58:54):
Okay. Do you remember how Orlando got down?
Duane Davis (01:59:03):
No. They came down a couple of days after, the day of the fight.
Detective D. Long (01:59:08):
The day of the fight or the day before the fight?
Duane Davis (01:59:09):
The day of the fight or the day before. I know we was down a couple of days before him.
Detective D. Long (01:59:15):
Okay. And how did Orlando get down?
Duane Davis (01:59:18):
Him and Big Dre came.
Detective D. Long (01:59:22):
What kind of car?
Duane Davis (01:59:33):
Cadillac. [inaudible 01:59:34].
Detective D. Long (01:59:34):
Okay. Where did the Cadillac come from?
Duane Davis (01:59:42):
It came from LA. I mean, Compton.
Detective D. Long (01:59:43):
Was it somebody's car? It was a rent-a-car?
Duane Davis (01:59:44):
It was a rental car.
Detective D. Long (01:59:47):
Do you remember from where?
Duane Davis (01:59:47):
I don't remember from where.
Detective D. Long (01:59:50):
Okay. What color was the Cadillac?
Duane Davis (01:59:52):
White.
Detective D. Long (01:59:55):
Four-door, big one? Do you remember what kind of Cad?
Duane Davis (02:00:00):
It was a big one.
Wayne Higgins (02:00:02):
Four doors, right?
Duane Davis (02:00:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:00:07):
Do you know where that car went?
Wayne Higgins (02:00:08):
What do you mean went?
Detective D. Long (02:00:12):
Afterwards, did it get returned to the rent-a-car place?
Duane Davis (02:00:15):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:00:15):
It did? Okay. But you don't remember what company it was?
Duane Davis (02:00:18):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:00:19):
Okay. Do you remember who rented it?
Duane Davis (02:00:21):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:00:23):
Okay. This is what helps me. If I own facts, I can corroborate everything that's said to me. It makes everything look better. So that's what I'm doing is I'm trying to build up things.
Duane Davis (02:00:34):
There's a lady. She died though. She passed away. What's her name?
Detective Dupree (02:00:37):
Who's she?
Duane Davis (02:00:37):
I mean, Harris, that was-
Wayne Higgins (02:00:37):
The rental car lady at the rental car place?
Duane Davis (02:00:37):
No, the one that I rented to her.
Detective Dupree (02:00:37):
Well, she was related to somebody. She was friends with somebody, something in the fam and her mother. Somebody from the hood.
Duane Davis (02:00:51):
T. Brown.
Detective Dupree (02:00:52):
T. Brown's girl's mother, something like that. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:00:56):
T. Brown's girl's mother.
Detective Dupree (02:01:02):
And you said she passed away?
Duane Davis (02:01:03):
Yeah.
Detective Dupree (02:01:04):
The Harris lady did?
Duane Davis (02:01:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:01:07):
Okay. Deceased. Do you remember the girl's name? T. Brown's girl?
Duane Davis (02:01:15):
I don't remember. It's been a while. I don't remember her name. What was her name?
Detective D. Long (02:01:27):
Was her last name Harris?
Duane Davis (02:01:30):
I think so, yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:01:32):
Okay. Do you remember the first name at all?
Duane Davis (02:01:33):
No. Teesa. I'll probably remember.
Detective D. Long (02:01:39):
You said Teesa or Teresa? I know. I'm sorry.
Wayne Higgins (02:01:43):
He's just guessing. I don't think he-
Duane Davis (02:01:43):
Yeah. I'll get back with you on that one.
Detective D. Long (02:01:50):
All right. Okay. And then who else from Compton went down?
Duane Davis (02:01:54):
Just the people I gave you.
Detective D. Long (02:01:56):
Okay. Any other vehicles? Oh, wait a minute. Well, how did Kevin get down?
Duane Davis (02:02:00):
They went down in a van.
Detective D. Long (02:02:01):
Where did the van come from?
Duane Davis (02:02:05):
I think Corey people rented it.
Detective D. Long (02:02:09):
Corey Edwards people?
Duane Davis (02:02:10):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:02:11):
Did Corey drive with Kevin?
Duane Davis (02:02:13):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:02:24):
What color was the van?
Duane Davis (02:02:25):
I think it was bluish or green. I mean, bluish green.
Detective D. Long (02:02:32):
Do you remember what kind of van?
Duane Davis (02:02:36):
It was an Astro or something.
Detective D. Long (02:02:39):
Okay. And you think Corey Edwards' people rented it?
Duane Davis (02:02:43):
Yeah, I think so.
Detective D. Long (02:02:45):
Any idea who?
Duane Davis (02:02:47):
I don't know.
Detective D. Long (02:02:48):
Okay. And so Kevin Davis, Corey Edwards, who else were in the van?
Duane Davis (02:02:55):
Wynn and Tracy.
Detective D. Long (02:02:58):
Wendell Prince and Tracy Sessions. Okay. Did they go down the day before also or do you remember?
Duane Davis (02:03:12):
The same day I went.
Detective D. Long (02:03:15):
Okay. Do you remember where Orlando, Big Dre and T. Brown, where they stayed?
Duane Davis (02:03:19):
No. Mostly all of us stay at my room.
Detective D. Long (02:03:27):
At the Monte Carlo?
Duane Davis (02:03:27):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:03:28):
Okay. What about your brother, Corey, Wendell and Tracy? Where did they stay?
Duane Davis (02:03:34):
Monte Carlo.
Detective D. Long (02:03:35):
Monte Carlo. Okay. All right. Tell me a little bit about what the problem was between Bad Boy and Death Row. Can you give me any history on the problems they had?
Duane Davis (02:03:59):
They wanted Big Jake in Atlanta.
Detective D. Long (02:04:06):
Big Jake in Atlanta?
Duane Davis (02:04:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:04:07):
What happened to Big Jake?
Duane Davis (02:04:14):
Got killed by Wolfy out there.
Detective D. Long (02:04:14):
Okay. Who was Big Jake affiliated with?
Duane Davis (02:04:15):
Campanella Park Pirus.
Detective D. Long (02:04:16):
He was with Pirus?
Duane Davis (02:04:22):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:04:25):
Which Park?
Duane Davis (02:04:25):
Campanella.
Detective D. Long (02:04:27):
Okay. And Wolfy was with who?
Duane Davis (02:04:29):
He from New York. Bad Boy.
Detective D. Long (02:04:39):
Bad Boys. Okay. And that murder occurred when? It was a murder, right?
Duane Davis (02:04:46):
Yeah. Was it '95 or '94? '95.
Detective D. Long (02:04:46):
1995?
Detective Dupree (02:04:46):
'95.
Duane Davis (02:04:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:04:51):
So this had been approximately a year before anything happened?
Duane Davis (02:04:55):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:04:55):
Is this what started all the problems?
Duane Davis (02:04:58):
No. At that Source Award.
Detective D. Long (02:05:02):
The Source Awards?
Duane Davis (02:05:03):
Yeah. Suge got up on stage and said, disrespected the dude, Puffy.
Detective D. Long (02:05:11):
Suge Knight got up and disrespected Puffy.
Duane Davis (02:05:14):
Real bad. Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (02:05:14):
Diddy mean [inaudible 02:05:15].
Duane Davis (02:05:15):
Yo, somebody, you don't want everybody dancing all on your videos. I mean, come to Death Row, woo, woo, woo. Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (02:05:27):
Yeah. Basically, he said that if you don't want your executive producer to be involved in the videos, you want your owner to carry it with a class act, come to us, don't come to Bad Boys because they-
Detective Dupree (02:05:38):
He referred to Puffy because Puffy was always in all the videos.
Duane Davis (02:05:40):
Yeah.
Wayne Higgins (02:05:40):
Yeah. He was making a mark about Puffy.
Duane Davis (02:05:43):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:05:43):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:05:43):
[inaudible 02:05:46].
Wayne Higgins (02:05:43):
And it was real embarrassing the way he did it.
Duane Davis (02:05:43):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:05:48):
How did Puffy feel about Suge?
Duane Davis (02:05:51):
He was scared of him.
Detective D. Long (02:05:53):
He was scared of him? How afraid of him was he?
Duane Davis (02:05:54):
He was scared of him. He didn't even want to come out here.
Detective D. Long (02:06:01):
To the California area?
Duane Davis (02:06:02):
Yeah, period. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:06:04):
Because he was afraid Suge would do something?
Duane Davis (02:06:05):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:06:05):
Okay. Do you think Suge would have done something if he could have caught Puffy?
Duane Davis (02:06:13):
Yeah, quite sure.
Detective D. Long (02:06:16):
Okay. Okay. I'm just looking for your opinion.
Duane Davis (02:06:17):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:06:17):
That's it. All right. Do you know anything about an incident that occurred at the Lakewood Mall?
Duane Davis (02:06:25):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:06:26):
Okay. Can you tell me about that?
Duane Davis (02:06:30):
Our little homeboy, he was going to college to play football. He was in the mall.
Detective D. Long (02:06:36):
Okay. Who was your little homeboy?
Duane Davis (02:06:37):
His name Marcus. He got killed though.
Detective D. Long (02:06:39):
Marcus what?
Duane Davis (02:06:40):
What Marcus last name?
Detective Dupree (02:06:44):
[inaudible 02:06:45]. Hunter. Hunter.
Detective D. Long (02:06:45):
Hunter. Marcus Hunter?
Duane Davis (02:06:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:06:47):
And he was playing football where?
Duane Davis (02:06:50):
He had a scholarship. I think one of them Arizona schools.
Detective D. Long (02:06:53):
Okay. And he was at the Lakewood Mall?
Duane Davis (02:06:56):
Yeah, he was getting some apparel to go to college.
Detective D. Long (02:07:01):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:07:02):
He was up there by himself, but he had called everybody else to come because they was going to buy the stuff for him.
Detective D. Long (02:07:09):
Everybody being?
Wayne Higgins (02:07:12):
Everybody from your clique?
Duane Davis (02:07:14):
From our clique, yeah.
Wayne Higgins (02:07:14):
Go help him out with the school clothes, basically.
Duane Davis (02:07:16):
Yeah. With Wynn, Big Dre. I don't remember who all, but it was like five of them, six of them.
Detective D. Long (02:07:19):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:07:19):
Yeah. But the guys was already there.
Detective D. Long (02:07:30):
What guys?
Duane Davis (02:07:30):
The Death Row guys.
Detective D. Long (02:07:33):
Do you remember who they were? Or do you know who they were?
Duane Davis (02:07:37):
I don't remember. It was youngster. I'm older than them dudes, you know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (02:07:40):
Right.
Duane Davis (02:07:41):
But they said one was Trevon Lane. Who else was there? Kevin. Kevin Woods. I think he was.
Detective Dupree (02:08:00):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (02:08:00):
Okay.
Detective Dupree (02:08:01):
K-Dub.
Duane Davis (02:08:03):
K-Dub?
Detective Dupree (02:08:04):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (02:08:06):
With some other little guy. I know his older brother, his brother name's Corey. I don't know the youngster name.
Detective D. Long (02:08:15):
Corey. Do you know who Corey's-
Detective Dupree (02:08:19):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:08:19):
Okay. Any other youngster?
Duane Davis (02:08:21):
No. I know the brother. Corey is his brother.
Detective D. Long (02:08:26):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:08:27):
He's a little bit older than the dude, so I kind of know him. It's Corey's brother. Their mama name, what's her name, last name is Stance. They used to be from our neighborhood.
Detective D. Long (02:08:40):
Stamp?
Duane Davis (02:08:41):
Stance.
Detective D. Long (02:08:42):
Stance.
Duane Davis (02:08:42):
Yeah. Vanessa Stance.
Detective D. Long (02:08:44):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:08:47):
Her son. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:08:50):
Her younger brother of Corey?
Duane Davis (02:08:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:08:52):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:08:53):
But I know the mama real good because she were in my age.
Detective D. Long (02:08:54):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:08:59):
Yeah. And he was at the mall, Marcus.
Detective D. Long (02:09:01):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:09:01):
By his self. They was talking crazy to him, going crazy.
Detective D. Long (02:09:07):
What kind of crazy? Anything you can remember. Statements?
Duane Davis (02:09:12):
Like fuck South Side and woo-woo-woo-woo.
Detective D. Long (02:09:16):
Fuck the South Side?
Duane Davis (02:09:17):
All that. Yeah. So Marcus was kind of scared, but once he seen everybody coming, he punched the guy out.
Detective D. Long (02:09:27):
Which one he punch out?
Duane Davis (02:09:28):
Well, I think it was Trevon Lane.
Detective D. Long (02:09:30):
Okay. And what happened?
Duane Davis (02:09:35):
He just punched his ass, beat him up, and everybody just jumped in and whooped their ass.
Detective D. Long (02:09:39):
Okay. And was anything taken?
Duane Davis (02:09:42):
They said a chain hit the ground or something. We didn't have it though.
Detective D. Long (02:09:46):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:09:47):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:09:48):
Do you know who said? You said a chain.
Duane Davis (02:09:50):
They said a Death Row chain. We took a Death Row chain or something, but we didn't have it. He must have lost it in the mall.
Detective D. Long (02:09:59):
Okay.
Wayne Higgins (02:10:01):
Right. Y'all didn't take the chain. Y'all didn't care about that chain.
Duane Davis (02:10:02):
Hell no.
Detective D. Long (02:10:04):
Okay. So you heard, as well as I heard, that a Death Row records chain was missing.
Duane Davis (02:10:09):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:10:09):
But you said that they didn't take it.
Duane Davis (02:10:11):
We didn't get it, no. We didn't get it.
Detective D. Long (02:10:14):
Okay. Okay. All right. So this fight, Trevon Lane gets beat up, and I imagine everybody got beat up.
Duane Davis (02:10:20):
Yep. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:10:22):
All right. And that also caused tension?
Duane Davis (02:10:26):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:10:26):
Okay. Any other events happen here in California or in Compton prior to going to Las Vegas?
Wayne Higgins (02:10:35):
Any other things happened that caused any kind of tension between Death Row, Dad Boys, y'all? Any other incidents?
Duane Davis (02:10:42):
I know the carwash man was like, "They brought a fucking 150." And he says, "Y'all better not go." Some old shit.
Detective D. Long (02:10:44):
The carwash guy said what?
Duane Davis (02:10:45):
He washed our cars and the Death Row dude's car, he's like, "Man, they brought a hundred tickets and they say y'all better not go down there."
Detective D. Long (02:11:01):
Okay. Death Row's got a hundred tickets.
Duane Davis (02:11:03):
Yeah, to the fight.
Detective D. Long (02:11:03):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:11:10):
We had been going to the fight since like '86, '87 before the rappers even started going to that shit.
Detective D. Long (02:11:12):
Right.
Duane Davis (02:11:13):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:11:14):
So were you worried about Death Row having a hundred tickets?
Duane Davis (02:11:19):
Nah. I played football with the guy, and I know he soft.
Wayne Higgins (02:11:23):
Who? Suge?
Duane Davis (02:11:24):
Suge, I played football with him. His daddy was our coach. All that shit.
Detective D. Long (02:11:27):
Oh, yeah? Where'd you play football?
Duane Davis (02:11:29):
At Grady Compton, Pop Warner.
Detective D. Long (02:11:31):
Oh, all the way down.
Duane Davis (02:11:32):
Since I was like eight, nine years old. We know they soft. You know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (02:11:32):
Okay. You know they're soft.
Duane Davis (02:11:32):
I know Suge is.
Detective D. Long (02:11:42):
Suge is soft. Okay. All right. So Suge's a big guy though.
Duane Davis (02:11:47):
He's soft though. I played football with him. He was our center. Ah, oh. Oh.
Detective D. Long (02:11:56):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:11:56):
[inaudible 02:11:56]. Okay.
Detective D. Long (02:11:57):
All right. So there's no worries about them having a hundred tickets. So everybody goes to Vegas and you spend a couple days there before the fight?
Duane Davis (02:12:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:12:06):
Are there any incidents in Las Vegas prior to the fight? The Tyson fight?
Duane Davis (02:12:11):
No. We seen them. They had pulled up in their Rolls Royces. The girls was out there. We seen them and all that.
Detective D. Long (02:12:18):
Who'd you see?
Duane Davis (02:12:24):
It was Snoop, Tupac, and Suge. They had rolled, they had a black, white, and red rose they pulled up in, Rolls Royces.
Detective D. Long (02:12:36):
Where was this?
Duane Davis (02:12:36):
This at the MGM.
Detective D. Long (02:12:36):
For the fight?
Duane Davis (02:12:36):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:12:36):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:12:39):
Then Mike Tyson then pulled up in them Bentleys. And Horry, Mike Tyson, and what's his name? Don King. They pulled up in they Bentleys and all the girls ran from they Rolls Royces to these Bentleys. You know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (02:12:54):
Yep. Yep.
Duane Davis (02:12:54):
Yeah. Yeah, they get it. Them things looked like Hot Wheels. They was so cool.
Detective D. Long (02:12:59):
Do you remember anything about what Suge or Tupac were wearing when you saw them pull up? You remember at all?
Duane Davis (02:13:09):
I don't remember.
Detective D. Long (02:13:11):
Okay. That's fine.
Duane Davis (02:13:12):
This was like the day before.
Detective D. Long (02:13:14):
The day before the fight itself?
Duane Davis (02:13:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:13:17):
Okay. So there was a big entourage, girls running everywhere.
Duane Davis (02:13:20):
Yeah. Yeah. It was off, yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:13:21):
Pretty good circus going on.
Duane Davis (02:13:23):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:13:23):
Las Vegas circus. All right. So the night of the fight, where did you guys... Did you all meet up? Everybody in your family?
Duane Davis (02:13:35):
We had brought tickets from a scalper.
Detective D. Long (02:13:38):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:13:39):
Went in the fight.
Detective D. Long (02:13:40):
You actually bought them at the door or outside the door?
Duane Davis (02:13:45):
Yeah. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:13:45):
That had to cost you an arm and a leg?
Duane Davis (02:13:47):
No. I was in a prison with this guy that was one of the head scalpers around.
Detective D. Long (02:13:50):
That'll help.
Duane Davis (02:13:54):
And I kind of had his back. He was young. And so he just gave me love when I was buy the tickets.
Detective D. Long (02:14:03):
Well, good. There you go.
Wayne Higgins (02:14:03):
Was Sammy [inaudible 02:14:04]?
Duane Davis (02:14:03):
Sammy and his little nephew. He be at everything, in front of everything.
Detective D. Long (02:14:11):
Okay. All right, that's fine. I don't want to go into that. So did you get all seats together?
Duane Davis (02:14:16):
No. We separated. We was all around, I think.
Detective D. Long (02:14:19):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:14:20):
Then after the fight, we had went into one of the restaurants at MGM.
Detective D. Long (02:14:27):
Okay. Short fight?
Duane Davis (02:14:28):
It was real short.
Detective D. Long (02:14:29):
Do you have any idea what restaurant you went into?
Duane Davis (02:14:35):
No. It's on the video though.
Detective D. Long (02:14:39):
Yeah. Okay. And who was with you when you went in the restaurant?
Duane Davis (02:14:45):
Everybody except Lane. Everybody except Lane.
Detective D. Long (02:14:49):
Where was Lane?
Duane Davis (02:14:50):
I guess he was still coming from the fight.
Detective D. Long (02:14:54):
Okay. Do you remember what Lane was wearing?
Duane Davis (02:14:58):
What's Lane jersey? Dan Marino.
Detective D. Long (02:15:01):
Okay. All right. And what were you wearing?
Duane Davis (02:15:04):
Oh, shit. I don't know.
Detective D. Long (02:15:08):
You don't remember? That's fine. That's fine. So were you present when Baby Lane had the problems?
Duane Davis (02:15:17):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:15:17):
Okay. Baby Lane told you what happened?
Duane Davis (02:15:22):
No. Some other guys came to the restaurant and told us.
Detective D. Long (02:15:25):
Who were the other guys?
Duane Davis (02:15:26):
Some East Coast guys.
Detective D. Long (02:15:26):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:15:26):
Who? What's the name?
Detective Dupree (02:15:33):
East Coast.
Duane Davis (02:15:35):
No, the Crip dude.
Detective Dupree (02:15:38):
It's on East Coast?
Wayne Higgins (02:15:38):
East Coast Crip.
Detective Dupree (02:15:38):
Oh, Treggs.
Duane Davis (02:15:39):
Not Trev. What's the other boy?
Detective Dupree (02:15:39):
Who?
Duane Davis (02:15:45):
Light-skinned dude. He live in Paramount.
Detective Dupree (02:15:49):
Oh.
Duane Davis (02:15:49):
Anthony. Anthony.
Detective Dupree (02:15:50):
Anthony Treggs. Yeah.
Duane Davis (02:15:50):
Yeah.
Detective Dupree (02:15:50):
Anthony Treggs. That's why I say Treggs.
Duane Davis (02:15:50):
Oh. Yeah.
Detective Dupree (02:15:55):
Yeah. He's from East Coast. He out here.
Detective D. Long (02:15:56):
Anthony?
Detective Dupree (02:15:57):
Treggs. T-R-E-G-G-S.
Detective D. Long (02:15:59):
T-R-E- G-G-S. Is he the one that was present when-
Detective D. Long (02:16:00):
Yeah, G-G-S. Is he the one that was present when Baby Lane? He came up and helped Baby Lane after the beating?
Duane Davis (02:16:09):
I think so, but he told us. He told us though, man, he just jumped on Lane.
Detective D. Long (02:16:16):
Okay. Is Anthony a little older? Was he a little older in 1996 is what I'm saying?
Duane Davis (02:16:22):
Nah.
Detective D. Long (02:16:23):
Older guy?
Duane Davis (02:16:26):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:16:26):
There's a male, a little older, wearing a white shirt that comes and helps baby Lane after the beating, right after the beating. He stands there with him, helps him get up.
Duane Davis (02:16:35):
Was it Zip?
Dupree (02:16:38):
I don't know. Because did Zip come over there to you guys after that? Was he with Lane when they walked up?
Duane Davis (02:16:42):
We walked up, we seen him.
Dupree (02:16:44):
Okay. Well, maybe it was Zip.
Detective D. Long (02:16:46):
Okay. Who's Zip? Zip as in Z-I-P?
Duane Davis (02:16:50):
Yeah. He from New York. One of Puffy boys.
Detective D. Long (02:16:58):
Okay. Do you know his real name?
Duane Davis (02:17:00):
Von Zip.
Dupree (02:17:01):
Oh, that's his moniker too. Von Zip. I think it's Eric Martin or Equan Williams he goes by.
Detective D. Long (02:17:09):
You're killing me. Martin?
Dupree (02:17:12):
Eric Martin.
Detective D. Long (02:17:13):
Or Equan.
Dupree (02:17:18):
Williams.
Detective D. Long (02:17:19):
Okay. And he's from New York?
Dupree (02:17:21):
Yeah. And was he hanging out with you that weekend?
Duane Davis (02:17:26):
Yeah, we hung.
Detective D. Long (02:17:26):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:17:31):
With Reggie Rich.
Detective D. Long (02:17:31):
Reggie Reg?
Duane Davis (02:17:32):
Richie Rich.
Dupree (02:17:32):
Richie Rich.
Detective D. Long (02:17:33):
Richie Rich. Oh, okay.
Duane Davis (02:17:36):
He was in New York. Heuro was there.
Detective D. Long (02:17:38):
Heuro?
Duane Davis (02:17:41):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:17:42):
Like Hispanic Heudo?
Duane Davis (02:17:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:17:45):
Meaning white boy?
Duane Davis (02:17:46):
Yeah. White boy, but he was Black, but he real light skinned. They just called him Heuro.
Detective D. Long (02:17:50):
Okay. Do you know Heuro's real name?
Duane Davis (02:17:50):
I don't know his real name.
Detective D. Long (02:17:52):
Okay. Richie Rich, do we have any idea what his real name is?
Dupree (02:18:02):
He's called some of that Richie Richard?
Duane Davis (02:18:04):
Yeah. I think he got 30 years. That's what they said on the pair.
Detective D. Long (02:18:07):
Richie Rich did?
Duane Davis (02:18:08):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:18:09):
30 years for?
Duane Davis (02:18:11):
Drugs.
Detective D. Long (02:18:12):
Okay. All right. Okay. I'll be able to look that up. Anything on Heuro?
Duane Davis (02:18:27):
I think he's from the Bronx.
Detective D. Long (02:18:35):
I'm not sure how to spell Heuro.
Dupree (02:18:36):
W-E-T-O? Weto?
Detective D. Long (02:18:37):
No, that's the just...
Dupree (02:18:48):
That's what it sounds like.
Detective D. Long (02:18:49):
Okay. All right. So Zip, you see Baby Lane right after something happened, and he's with Zip and who else?
Duane Davis (02:18:57):
He was with them cats.
Detective D. Long (02:18:59):
Zip, Richie, Rich and Heuro?
Duane Davis (02:19:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:19:02):
And what is.
Duane Davis (02:19:05):
What's that?
Detective D. Long (02:19:06):
What did Baby Lane tell you?
Duane Davis (02:19:08):
That they jumped on him.
Detective D. Long (02:19:08):
Who?
Duane Davis (02:19:08):
Death Row, Suge and them. But his arm was out of the socket. They beat his arm. His arm out of the socket.
Detective D. Long (02:19:20):
Okay. So you said Suge. Who else?
Duane Davis (02:19:21):
Suge, Buntry, Travon, Tupac.
Detective D. Long (02:19:29):
Okay. And they beat him pretty good, actually knocked his arm out of the socket?
Duane Davis (02:19:33):
Yeah. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:19:35):
Anything else? Anybody else? They didn't -
Duane Davis (02:19:40):
I know the whole crew, they whole little crew, they said he was about 18, 30 of them.
Detective D. Long (02:19:43):
Okay. And he told you Suge actually took part in beating him?
Duane Davis (02:19:49):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:19:49):
Okay. This was all on videotape?
Duane Davis (02:19:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:19:52):
Have you ever seen the videotape?
Duane Davis (02:19:53):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:19:54):
Yeah. I think everybody has. All right. So they beat him down. He comes, he meets with you. What is said at that point? Is there anything said at that point?
Duane Davis (02:20:08):
Well, nothing really said. We just went to the valet parking and got our cars and stuff.
Detective D. Long (02:20:14):
MGM valet? Okay. Were all the cars there at the MGM?
Duane Davis (02:20:20):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:20:21):
Okay. So the van, the white Cadillac, and the Buick?
Duane Davis (02:20:25):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:20:27):
You okay?
Duane Davis (02:20:34):
Yeah, I'm gonna need some water. Some cigarettes.
Higgins (02:20:34):
Thank you for water.
Detective D. Long (02:20:39):
Nothing is said at that point. Do you want to wait for him to get back? Okay. So you go to get your cars. How is Baby Lane feeling? Is he?
Duane Davis (02:20:55):
He's ready to go to the doctor or stuff.
Detective D. Long (02:20:59):
Oh, he wants to go to the hospital?
Duane Davis (02:21:00):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:00):
Okay. Is he angry?
Duane Davis (02:21:05):
What's that?
Detective D. Long (02:21:05):
Was he mad?
Duane Davis (02:21:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:06):
All right. I would because...
Duane Davis (02:21:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:10):
I'm trying to. Did he say anything?
Duane Davis (02:21:15):
He didn't say nothing. He was just mad. He was like, "I need you to go to the doctor, man."
Detective D. Long (02:21:19):
Okay. So you go out to the cars. What is Zip and Richie Rich and Weto, what are they driving? Or do they go to the?
Duane Davis (02:21:26):
They in any of that black vans.
Detective D. Long (02:21:29):
Black Mercedes?
Duane Davis (02:21:30):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:31):
Do you have any idea where the Mercedes came from? Did they drive across country? Did they rent it in Vegas? Do you have any idea?
Duane Davis (02:21:44):
I think it's from LA.
Detective D. Long (02:21:45):
It's from LA?
Duane Davis (02:21:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:46):
Was it a rent-a-car?
Duane Davis (02:21:46):
No, it was his.
Detective D. Long (02:21:51):
It actually belonged to Zip?
Duane Davis (02:21:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:21:53):
Okay. Okay. And that's in valet also?
Duane Davis (02:22:01):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:22:01):
Okay. So you all go, you get your Mercedes, the van, the Cadillac, and the Buick, and you pull out of valet. Did you drive away?
Duane Davis (02:22:13):
I went and took Paula to the hotel and gave her some money to gamble with.
Detective D. Long (02:22:19):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:22:22):
Then I jumped to the van with them.
Detective D. Long (02:22:23):
With your brother?
Duane Davis (02:22:24):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:22:25):
And whoever else is in there?
Duane Davis (02:22:27):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:22:27):
And what about the Cadillac? Is that with you?
Duane Davis (02:22:27):
Yeah, that's with us.
Detective D. Long (02:22:27):
And is the Mercedes with you?
Duane Davis (02:22:27):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:22:27):
That's not with you. Okay. What about the Buick? You leave that?
Duane Davis (02:22:27):
I leave it up there.
Detective D. Long (02:22:28):
At the Excalibur? Or no, I'm sorry, Monte Carlo.
Duane Davis (02:22:43):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:22:44):
Monte Carlo.
Detective D. Long (02:22:44):
Monte Carlo.
Duane Davis (02:22:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:22:45):
I got to get my hotels right. So where do you go from there?
Duane Davis (02:22:51):
We went to -
Detective D. Long (02:22:53):
Is there any discussion at that point at the Monte Carlo? Any talk about where you're going to go, what you're going to do, any time?
Duane Davis (02:23:00):
We went to the liquor store to get some drink.
Detective D. Long (02:23:04):
Okay.
Higgins (02:23:04):
That's okay. Hello?
Duane Davis (02:23:08):
I jumped in the car with Lando now.
Detective D. Long (02:23:12):
With Lando ho, you jumped in the -
Duane Davis (02:23:13):
Cadillac.
Detective D. Long (02:23:14):
Cadillac.
Duane Davis (02:23:16):
At the store.
Detective D. Long (02:23:16):
At the store?
Duane Davis (02:23:16):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:23:18):
Is there any conversation at that point?
Duane Davis (02:23:19):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:23:21):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:23:22):
We headed up Flamingo.
Detective D. Long (02:23:26):
Okay. You headed up Flamingo or down. Okay. Nevermind. Where's the liquor store? Is it?
Duane Davis (02:23:36):
On Maryland.
Detective D. Long (02:23:38):
Maryland Parkway?
Duane Davis (02:23:39):
Yeah, there's a liquor store right there on the corner of Flamingo and Maryland.
Detective D. Long (02:23:42):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:23:43):
Right there.
Detective D. Long (02:23:43):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:23:45):
Then we left from there, they got called by the light.
Detective D. Long (02:23:48):
The van did?
Duane Davis (02:23:49):
The van did.
Detective D. Long (02:23:50):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:23:53):
And we got to Las Vegas Boulevard.
Detective D. Long (02:23:58):
Where were you guys going? Were you looking for something?
Duane Davis (02:24:07):
No. We were going to the MGM. We were going to the hotel. Back to the hotel. We had had our drinks and stuff.
Detective D. Long (02:24:10):
Okay. This is where we're at. They leave, he drops his wife off at the Monte Carlo.
Duane Davis (02:24:14):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:24:15):
And he leaves the Buick at the Monte Carlo. He then jumps into the van.
Duane Davis (02:24:20):
Van.
Detective D. Long (02:24:22):
With his brother and those guys, and they're followed by the Cadillac.
Duane Davis (02:24:26):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:24:27):
They drive to Maryland Parkway and Flamingo, which is going to be to the east. And they go to a liquor store to buy some liquor.
Dupree (02:24:33):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (02:24:34):
They then decide to drive up Flamingo to the boulevard.
Duane Davis (02:24:37):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:24:39):
And you're now in the Cadillac?
Duane Davis (02:24:41):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:24:41):
With Baby Lane, and the van is following him at this point?
Duane Davis (02:24:45):
No, the van was -
Detective D. Long (02:24:47):
Got stuck at the lights.
Duane Davis (02:24:48):
Stuck at the light.
Detective D. Long (02:24:48):
At Maryland Parkway or one of the ones -
Duane Davis (02:24:50):
One of the lights, yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:24:51):
Okay. So you're headed west on Flamingo?
Duane Davis (02:24:56):
Yeah, that way. Just right there.
Detective D. Long (02:24:56):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:24:59):
And we had the light on Las Vegas and Flamingo, and Tupac hanging out the window. And all the girls were going crazy on the corner, Shit, that motherfucker's right there. Hooked a U-turn along the side, passed by all the cars.
Detective D. Long (02:25:27):
Okay. This right here is Koval, and this is Flamingo. Okay?
Duane Davis (02:25:31):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:25:32):
This Maryland Parkway is down here. The boulevard is right here.
Duane Davis (02:25:35):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:25:36):
Okay. So you drive all the way up. You see Suge hanging out the window.
Duane Davis (02:25:40):
See Tupac hanging out the window.
Detective D. Long (02:25:42):
I mean, sorry. Tupac. Yeah, Suge wouldn't be able to do it. Tupac's hanging out which side?
Duane Davis (02:25:47):
Passenger side.
Detective D. Long (02:25:48):
Okay. Did you see who was driving at that point?
Duane Davis (02:25:51):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:25:52):
Who's that?
Duane Davis (02:25:52):
Suge.
Detective D. Long (02:25:53):
Okay. Anybody else in that car?
Duane Davis (02:25:55):
No, it was just them two.
Detective D. Long (02:25:57):
What kind of car was it?
Duane Davis (02:25:57):
A 750 BMW.
Detective D. Long (02:25:57):
Okay. Are there other vehicles in line with them?
Duane Davis (02:26:07):
Yeah, whole lot.
Detective D. Long (02:26:07):
A whole bunch? Do you remember the vehicle right behind it or do you?
Duane Davis (02:26:10):
It was a black Vet or an SSM5.
Detective D. Long (02:26:15):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:26:15):
Then there was another BMW wagon. He was on the other side. It was about 18 cars.
Detective D. Long (02:26:27):
Okay. All right. So you come down, there's a turn lane to go this way, and there's actually three travel lanes, and then there's a lane to go this way.
Duane Davis (02:26:36):
What street is this?
Detective D. Long (02:26:39):
This is Koval. This is Flamingo.
Duane Davis (02:26:39):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (02:26:40):
The Boulevard is right here.
Duane Davis (02:26:43):
Las Vegas here, we came this way.
Detective D. Long (02:26:44):
Right.
Duane Davis (02:26:45):
Made a U-turn.
Detective D. Long (02:26:47):
Okay. And you're now behind the entourage?
Duane Davis (02:26:49):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:26:49):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:26:50):
Then we pull up on the gutter lane.
Detective D. Long (02:26:54):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:26:54):
Over on the side of it.
Detective D. Long (02:26:58):
Okay. Were you in the gutter lane or were you -
Duane Davis (02:27:01):
He was on his lane, the right hand turning lane right here.
Detective D. Long (02:27:07):
Okay. And you're in the white Cadillac?
Duane Davis (02:27:08):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:27:09):
Who's in the white Cadillac?
Duane Davis (02:27:09):
Me, T, Lando and Dre.
Detective D. Long (02:27:15):
Okay. Let's start with you. What seat are you in?
Duane Davis (02:27:17):
I'm in the passenger seat.
Higgins (02:27:17):
Which passenger seat?
Detective D. Long (02:27:17):
Front or back?
Duane Davis (02:27:17):
Front.
Detective D. Long (02:27:24):
Front passenger seat. Who's driving?
Duane Davis (02:27:25):
T. Brown.
Detective D. Long (02:27:39):
Who's behind T. Brown?
Duane Davis (02:27:41):
Big Dre.
Detective D. Long (02:27:51):
And I guess Orlando would be behind you?
Duane Davis (02:27:53):
Me. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:28:01):
Okay. And you drive up on the gutter side and the BMW, the black BMW with Suge and Tupac are in a travel lane?
Duane Davis (02:28:15):
Yeah, they're in the second lane.
Detective D. Long (02:28:16):
In the second lane?
Duane Davis (02:28:17):
Yeah, in the middle lane right here.
Detective D. Long (02:28:19):
Okay. And you said there was another BMW?
Duane Davis (02:28:21):
Yeah, the BMW wagon on this side of them.
Detective D. Long (02:28:25):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:28:25):
Then I think a Vet, SS Impala, all kind of them. It was all black cars.
Detective D. Long (02:28:33):
Okay. And so you pull up alongside. Is there any discussion at this point?
Duane Davis (02:28:37):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:28:37):
Okay. What happened when you pulled up alongside?
Duane Davis (02:28:50):
Got to shooting.
Higgins (02:28:50):
Well, you're not being clear. He asked you. When you said got to shooting, what do you mean got to shoot? Who got to shoot?
Duane Davis (02:28:53):
Orlando. Dre went and shoot. So Orlando said, give it here, I'll shoot.
Detective D. Long (02:28:58):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:28:59):
And he got to shooting.
Detective D. Long (02:29:00):
So Orlando leaned all the way over from the rear passenger side. And did he get out of the car?
Duane Davis (02:29:06):
No.
Higgins (02:29:07):
And shot across Dre?
Duane Davis (02:29:09):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:29:10):
Did he lean all the way across and get his arm out?
Duane Davis (02:29:12):
Yeah. Orlando tall and real tall.
Detective D. Long (02:29:16):
Right.
Duane Davis (02:29:19):
Has long ass arms, he busting, made the right.
Detective D. Long (02:29:21):
Okay. This is where I want to get -
Higgins (02:29:23):
Just slow down.
Duane Davis (02:29:23):
Details.
Detective D. Long (02:29:26):
So he leans across, you're right next to the BMW. Do you remember if the BMW had its window up or down?
Duane Davis (02:29:34):
It was up.
Detective D. Long (02:29:35):
It was up. He's shooting into what part of the car?
Duane Davis (02:29:43):
Driver's side. I mean, the passenger side.
Detective D. Long (02:29:45):
Okay. Is it a two-door or four-door vehicle? Do you remember?
Duane Davis (02:29:49):
It was a four-door.
Detective D. Long (02:29:50):
A four-door? How many times did Orlando fire, approximately?
Duane Davis (02:29:57):
Maybe about five or six.
Detective D. Long (02:30:00):
Five or six times?
Duane Davis (02:30:00):
Five or six times, yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:30:02):
Did he empty the gun? What kind of gun was it? Was it a revolver or was it a semi-automatic?
Duane Davis (02:30:07):
Semi-automatic.
Detective D. Long (02:30:10):
Do you know what kind of gun it was?
Duane Davis (02:30:14):
From the newspaper reports?
Higgins (02:30:15):
No, you just told him, 40 Glock. Okay. He's telling you what you -
Duane Davis (02:30:18):
A 40 Glock.
Detective D. Long (02:30:21):
40 Glock. Okay. What color was it? Silver, black?
Duane Davis (02:30:24):
Black.
Detective D. Long (02:30:25):
Black. When he finished firing that 40 Glock, did the slide stay back? Was it empty?
Duane Davis (02:30:32):
It wasn't empty.
Detective D. Long (02:30:33):
It wasn't empty? Okay. And you think five or six rounds?
Duane Davis (02:30:36):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:30:36):
How fast did he take him to fire five or six rounds?
Duane Davis (02:30:40):
It was pretty fast. Maybe about three, four seconds.
Detective D. Long (02:30:43):
Okay. Were you watching the BMW when this occurred?
Duane Davis (02:30:50):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:30:50):
What did you see?
Duane Davis (02:31:02):
I seen the bullet going suge head. I seen the boy jumped up and down, trying to get in the back seat.
Detective D. Long (02:31:03):
The boy being?
Duane Davis (02:31:04):
Tupac.
Detective D. Long (02:31:05):
Okay. And you actually saw something hit Suge in the head?
Higgins (02:31:11):
You think you saw something hit in the head?
Duane Davis (02:31:12):
Yeah, I thought he was dead.
Detective D. Long (02:31:14):
Okay. You indicated the top of the head.
Duane Davis (02:31:17):
Yeah, because he had bend over like this.
Detective D. Long (02:31:21):
Trying to get into the back also or leaning towards the back?
Duane Davis (02:31:23):
Leaning down like that.
Detective D. Long (02:31:24):
Oh, into the passenger side?
Duane Davis (02:31:25):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:31:26):
Okay. I gotcha. And then you saw Tupac bouncing around. Did Tupac try to do anything?
Duane Davis (02:31:32):
No, he was trying to get in the backseat trying to duck, trying to hide.
Detective D. Long (02:31:37):
Okay. And you're pretty sure he was hit?
Duane Davis (02:31:39):
No, I though just the boy was hit.
Detective D. Long (02:31:41):
Just Suge?
Duane Davis (02:31:41):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:31:46):
Okay. All right. So you're in this gutter side lane on Flamingo.
Duane Davis (02:31:51):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:31:51):
They're on this side. Did you see what they did?
Higgins (02:31:53):
And who is they?
Duane Davis (02:31:54):
Who?
Detective D. Long (02:31:56):
Suge and Tupac. Did you see what their vehicle did?
Duane Davis (02:31:58):
No, he got driving erratic and made a U-turn and we made a right.
Detective D. Long (02:32:03):
So you made a right and you went down Koval to the south, and you said Suge made a U-turn?
Duane Davis (02:32:08):
Yeah, he made a U-turn. He was driving erratic.
Detective D. Long (02:32:11):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:32:11):
He made a U-turn and we went this way.
Detective D. Long (02:32:22):
Okay. Did you see? Were there any? I don't know how to ask this. Did anything happen from Suge's vehicle or any of the entourage towards you? Did anything occur?
Higgins (02:32:29):
Do you understand this question?
Duane Davis (02:32:30):
Did they shoot back? Is that what you're trying to say? Did they talk crazy to us?
Detective D. Long (02:32:35):
Did they throw anything at you? Did they shoot at you? Anything? Anything you remember?
Duane Davis (02:32:38):
I can't remember.
Detective D. Long (02:32:42):
Okay. So you don't think anybody fired any weapons at you?
Higgins (02:32:45):
The point is this, do you know or recall anything like that?
Duane Davis (02:32:49):
I don't recall.
Detective D. Long (02:32:52):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:32:54):
I know they had some polices with them though because we had seen them.
Detective D. Long (02:32:58):
Where were the police?
Duane Davis (02:33:01):
He just was right a couple cars behind or right behind them. Reggie, Drew Alexander, Pretty Boys dudes.
Detective D. Long (02:33:09):
Yeah, Frank Alexander?
Duane Davis (02:33:11):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:33:11):
Okay. They were in the entourage somewhere?
Duane Davis (02:33:14):
Yes.
Detective D. Long (02:33:15):
Okay. Okay. But as far as you know, nobody shot at you? Nobody threw anything at you? Nobody did anything towards you?
Duane Davis (02:33:21):
Not that I can recall.
Detective D. Long (02:33:24):
Okay. You make your right-hand turn.
Duane Davis (02:33:26):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:33:29):
Okay, I'll get to this in a minute. What happened then? You make your right-hand turn. Does anybody say anything? Did you do anything right at that time?
Duane Davis (02:33:38):
Some girls got to chasing us.
Detective D. Long (02:33:42):
I'm sorry?
Duane Davis (02:33:43):
Some girls got to chasing us.
Detective D. Long (02:33:44):
Do you remember what they were driving? Or were they on foot?
Duane Davis (02:33:49):
They was in a little white car.
Detective D. Long (02:33:51):
Little white car? Do you remember what kind of car?
Duane Davis (02:33:53):
Seemed like a Seabreeze.
Detective D. Long (02:33:54):
Okay. How far did they chase you?
Duane Davis (02:33:58):
They ain't go far too far.
Detective D. Long (02:34:03):
Okay. Do you know who the girls were?
Duane Davis (02:34:04):
I don't know who they was.
Higgins (02:34:08):
You don't know? The question was, do you know who the girls was? Yes or no?
Duane Davis (02:34:11):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:34:11):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:34:12):
Never.
Detective D. Long (02:34:14):
Were they black females?
Duane Davis (02:34:15):
Think so.
Detective D. Long (02:34:18):
Okay. Do you know how many were in the car?
Higgins (02:34:19):
Hold it. Think so or they could have been?
Duane Davis (02:34:20):
Could have been.
Higgins (02:34:22):
Could have been?
Duane Davis (02:34:22):
I don't know what color they was. I know they was in a white car chasing us. I said, these stupid bitches.
Higgins (02:34:29):
Don't pay no attention. Just pay attention to what they ask you.
Duane Davis (02:34:30):
Okay.
Higgins (02:34:30):
All that other...
Duane Davis (02:34:30):
Yeah, you right. I'm sorry.
Detective D. Long (02:34:35):
That's okay. No, I'm fine. So they don't chase you very far?
Duane Davis (02:34:40):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:34:40):
Is anything said between the girls in your car? Anybody in your car?
Duane Davis (02:34:45):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:34:46):
Okay. But they quit chasing you pretty quick?
Duane Davis (02:34:48):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:34:48):
You know why?
Duane Davis (02:34:51):
Huh?
Higgins (02:34:52):
Why they stopped chasing them, you think?
Duane Davis (02:34:56):
Got shot at.
Higgins (02:34:57):
Somebody fired around?
Duane Davis (02:34:59):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:35:00):
Okay. Who fired around?
Duane Davis (02:35:01):
My nephew, Orlando.
Detective D. Long (02:35:07):
Orlando. Okay. And he was fired from what window at that time?
Duane Davis (02:35:10):
On his side.
Detective D. Long (02:35:13):
From his side? Yeah. So it would've been the passenger side?
Duane Davis (02:35:15):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:35:16):
Did he shoot at them or do you know?
Higgins (02:35:20):
In their direction. That's what he's saying.
Duane Davis (02:35:22):
I guess he just scared them off because they got scared and we got on.
Detective D. Long (02:35:29):
Okay. All right. But you have no idea where he was aiming?
Duane Davis (02:35:32):
No idea.
Detective D. Long (02:35:34):
Okay. That's fine. Where do you go from there?
Duane Davis (02:35:39):
It's a little side street. It was that street Carriage House is on. You know The Carriage House?
Detective D. Long (02:35:46):
Yeah. You talking about. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you went into the Carriage House?
Duane Davis (02:35:52):
Yeah, we went back to that back parking lot.
Detective D. Long (02:35:54):
Okay. Tell me what happens then.
Duane Davis (02:35:56):
Then we walked back to the Monte Carlo.
Detective D. Long (02:36:05):
You parked the car and just leave it there?
Duane Davis (02:36:07):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:36:19):
So you park in the rear parking lot for the Carriage House?
Duane Davis (02:36:22):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:36:22):
Is that correct?
Duane Davis (02:36:24):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:36:25):
And you leave the white Cadillac in that parking lot?
Duane Davis (02:36:27):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:36:28):
And you walk to the Monte Carlo?
Duane Davis (02:36:33):
Walked by the MGM where that Coca-Cola sign is?
Detective D. Long (02:36:35):
Yes.
Duane Davis (02:36:36):
Yeah. We walked by on that street. Lando went somewhere else.
Detective D. Long (02:36:42):
I'm sorry?
Duane Davis (02:36:42):
Lando went somewhere else.
Detective D. Long (02:36:46):
Do you know where Lando went?
Duane Davis (02:36:47):
I don't know where he was.
Detective D. Long (02:36:48):
Did he still have the gun?
Duane Davis (02:36:50):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:36:51):
Where was the gun?
Duane Davis (02:36:53):
On the tire of the Cadillac.
Detective D. Long (02:36:55):
You left it on the tire?
Higgins (02:36:56):
The question is, Orlando left it on the tire, right?
Duane Davis (02:36:58):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:36:58):
Okay. That's what he meant.
Detective D. Long (02:37:02):
Yeah. Do you know which tire?
Duane Davis (02:37:02):
I think it was the front passenger side.
Detective D. Long (02:37:08):
Front passenger. Okay. And everybody walked. You went with T. Brown and?
Duane Davis (02:37:14):
Dre.
Detective D. Long (02:37:15):
Dre back to the Monte Carlo?
Duane Davis (02:37:17):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:37:19):
And Orlando went somewhere else?
Duane Davis (02:37:20):
Yeah. He came back about 20 minutes later.
Detective D. Long (02:37:24):
Did he tell you where he went?
Duane Davis (02:37:26):
No, he didn't tell me.
Detective D. Long (02:37:30):
Okay. Where did the gun come from?
Duane Davis (02:37:31):
He said he went to pee on his hands.
Detective D. Long (02:37:34):
Okay. Why would he do that?
Duane Davis (02:37:39):
To get the gun. To the gunpowder off.
Higgins (02:37:42):
That's what you assume to get the gunpowder?
Duane Davis (02:37:44):
Yeah. That's all the street stuff.
Detective D. Long (02:37:47):
Right. I get it. To get the gunpowder residue off his hands.
Duane Davis (02:37:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:37:53):
Okay. And the urine helps in that?
Duane Davis (02:37:57):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:37:58):
Okay. I get it. Where did the gun come from?
Duane Davis (02:38:04):
From Zip.
Detective D. Long (02:38:10):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:38:10):
From Zip, yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:38:11):
At what point did Orlando get a gun from Zip?
Duane Davis (02:38:14):
In the parking garage.
Detective D. Long (02:38:18):
Which one?
Duane Davis (02:38:18):
At the MGM.
Detective D. Long (02:38:21):
Oh, at the valet?
Duane Davis (02:38:22):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:38:23):
Okay. Tell me about that. You come out of the fight. Orlando's been beat up.
Duane Davis (02:38:29):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:38:30):
Oh, why does Zip give Orlando a gun?
Higgins (02:38:35):
I mean, you want him to assume what happened?
Detective D. Long (02:38:37):
Anything you heard at this point. I want to know what you heard.
Higgins (02:38:39):
He's asking specifically what you heard.
Duane Davis (02:38:39):
What I heard?
Detective D. Long (02:38:39):
Yes.
Higgins (02:38:45):
What did Zip say?
Detective D. Long (02:38:45):
Or Orlando. What anybody said at that point?
Duane Davis (02:38:54):
I guess we're protecting him.
Higgins (02:38:58):
What do you mean guess? If you know or not, do you remember any words that was passed between the two of them? That's what they're asking. Did Zip say, "Here, take this gun, man, do this," or anything like that he's asking. What do you think Zip said?
Duane Davis (02:39:11):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:39:11):
Well, just go on. What he say?
Duane Davis (02:39:11):
I think to take care of the guy.
Higgins (02:39:16):
You think that's what Zip was telling Lando to do?
Duane Davis (02:39:18):
Yeah, to take care of the really Suge.
Detective D. Long (02:39:23):
Okay. Just specifically, what did you hear Zip say specifically?
Duane Davis (02:39:28):
Here's your opportunity to get back.
Detective D. Long (02:39:31):
As he's handing him the gun, he's saying, "Here's your opportunity to get back."
Duane Davis (02:39:35):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:39:35):
That meant to you to get back at Suge?
Duane Davis (02:39:38):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:39:39):
Or Tupac.
Duane Davis (02:39:40):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:39:41):
Or anybody that was in the entourage that stomped on him. Is that the way you took it or was it specific?
Duane Davis (02:39:48):
No, he just gave him a gun. Gave him a gun.
Detective D. Long (02:39:52):
Okay. And said, "Here's your opportunity to get back at him."
Higgins (02:39:55):
Yeah, he probably didn't say it that nicely, but...
Duane Davis (02:39:57):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:39:58):
Probably something like -
Detective D. Long (02:39:59):
Okay. Give me a quote.
Higgins (02:40:00):
Something like, probably in regular street language where like, "Yeah, well handle your business," or something like that. Something like that.
Duane Davis (02:40:08):
"Handle your business."
Detective D. Long (02:40:08):
Do you remember that quote or was it something else?
Duane Davis (02:40:11):
It was like that, just like that.
Higgins (02:40:13):
Somewhere closer to that?
Duane Davis (02:40:15):
Yeah. Could y'all talk to D for one second?
Detective D. Long (02:40:17):
Sure. Go ahead.
Duane Davis (02:40:18):
I'm talking about without you.
Detective D. Long (02:40:19):
Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Duane Davis (02:40:19):
Just want to ask [inaudible 02:40:22].
Detective D. Long (02:40:22):
I'll step out.
Higgins (02:40:23):
Yeah. Where to. Just so we can clarify it.
Dupree (02:40:26):
What's up, man?
Higgins (02:40:36):
Okay. Hold on one second. Hold on quick. Look, you're doing a pretty good job. I know it's kind of hard. You ain't supposed to be getting in anything. He was involved in murder and you got to keep it with -
Dupree (02:40:49):
But what you told us, stay consistent what you told us.
Duane Davis (02:40:51):
He gave me the gun. He gave me the gun. That's what-
Dupree (02:40:51):
Nope.
Duane Davis (02:40:51):
Don't say that?
Higgins (02:40:58):
Listen. Okay. Okay. See, then he said what I say. Okay. Keith, did you hear what I just told you? I already told you before we started.
Duane Davis (02:41:08):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:41:09):
There's no reason for you to ask him or me anything like that. If you want to try to do not what I say, do it, then you know better than to ask him that question. Okay? Don't ask him that question.
Dupree (02:41:21):
But he, because he know I'm going to kick it real, but I understand what you're saying. But if it's been told that way before -
Duane Davis (02:41:30):
I need to stick with it.
Dupree (02:41:32):
Because it's the same story because you had a bunch of complain-
Higgins (02:41:36):
You might want to say it.
Dupree (02:41:36):
So that's what you got to do.
Higgins (02:41:37):
Let me say this.
Dupree (02:41:38):
Stay consistent with whatever happened.
Higgins (02:41:43):
Let me put it this way. It makes it easy. Okay. Let me make it easier for you. Okay? Okay. You can say it that. I think I recall it could have been like this. Presently, I'm not quite sure if it was exactly this way or that way, but I think he could have handed it to me and I handed it to him. You can put it in that kind of -
Dupree (02:42:07):
Stay consistent.
Higgins (02:42:08):
Yeah.
Dupree (02:42:08):
The thing is, you got to stay consistent because the story's already been told and leave it at that and sleep at night.
Higgins (02:42:15):
But no, you got to trust me what I'm saying.
Dupree (02:42:18):
But he's trying to. He's an attorney.
Higgins (02:42:20):
What I'm trying to say is you could say consistent, but your recollection doesn't have to be exactly. You got to hear what I'm saying. You can put it in a way where you're saying. I'm trying to recall now that I think about it. He could have handed it to me. Okay?
Duane Davis (02:42:37):
He did give it to me.
Dupree (02:42:40):
That's what you say. You want me to leave for five and come back to you?
Higgins (02:42:46):
No, no, no, I'm not. You're not listening to me. I'm going to look at you in the face and listen to what I'm saying. Okay? And I'm saying it one more time. Okay? It's two different situations. How you said it before, I don't give a fuck how many people in the room? Okay. There's certain things that you say that will get you a murder case. So play around with that as you want. He got a different job than I got. My job is to get you to say, not to get you to lie, but to get you to understand that your recollection may be that he may have handed it to you.
Duane Davis (02:43:13):
Okay.
Higgins (02:43:16):
That's when you think about it. I'm not asking you to lie, but I am asking you to give yourself some room, okay? Because you may need it. Okay?
Duane Davis (02:43:22):
Uh-huh.
Higgins (02:43:24):
But I know on that set of facts, it could be a problem.
Duane Davis (02:43:28):
But I thought, they said whatever I tell him.
Dupree (02:43:28):
The bottom line here is let's just -
Higgins (02:43:28):
You're not understanding.
Dupree (02:43:36):
Just tell your attorney because he's your attorney. But tell the story.
Duane Davis (02:43:40):
Okay.
Dupree (02:43:41):
And get through this.
Higgins (02:43:42):
I'm just saying that when you tell the story -
Dupree (02:43:44):
It's all good.
Higgins (02:43:44):
Let me hear you say it. When you tell the story twice, okay, you can either lock it in clearly as it is, or you can still leave some room and not lie. That's all I'm trying to say.
Duane Davis (02:43:57):
Okay. All right.
Higgins (02:44:00):
Because what he's saying to you, at the end of the day, it's two different programs going on that I don't control and he doesn't control. We can do the best we can do. Hold on. Okay. We might. Want to go over some things because he may recall some things in detail that maybe we know from previous conversations, and we want to make sure that it's consistent of the things that he may recall or not recall.
Detective D. Long (02:44:30):
Okay, that's fine.
Higgins (02:44:30):
So we might want to backtrack a little bit, but at the same time, if he remembers it exactly or not, just do the best you can.
Detective D. Long (02:44:39):
Absolutely. Listen, the way I want to do this -
Duane Davis (02:44:41):
That was a long ass time ago.
Detective D. Long (02:44:44):
I understand that. I completely understand that.
Duane Davis (02:44:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:44:46):
I have problems remember what I ate yesterday.
Duane Davis (02:44:48):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:44:50):
This is a big event. So my plan was to walk you through it real easy, like we just did.
Duane Davis (02:44:56):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:44:57):
And then we'd go back and you could add details. And if we want to go back again, we can add details again.
Duane Davis (02:45:04):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:45:04):
Okay. At this point, what I'm trying to do is spark your memory.
Duane Davis (02:45:07):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:45:07):
But remember, he's asking you specific questions. He may ask you what happened with Orlando or this or that, and he may ask you what happened with you. So when he asks you something specifically that you know that you recall, then you answer that question according to you. If he asks you what he think happened between Orlando and someone, then you answer according to that. That's what you need to clarify. All right?
Detective D. Long (02:45:30):
Okay.
Higgins (02:45:31):
That makes sense, right?
Detective D. Long (02:45:32):
Absolutely.
Duane Davis (02:45:33):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:45:33):
Okay. Because I don't want him to assume that something that was Orlando or Mac or this guy is you. When he wants to come back to you, he'll say, "Well, now Keith, tell me about this."
Duane Davis (02:45:46):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:45:46):
Okay?
Detective D. Long (02:45:46):
Okay.
Higgins (02:45:46):
That make it better or easier?
Duane Davis (02:45:48):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:45:48):
You comfortable with everything?
Duane Davis (02:45:49):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:45:50):
Okay. So we went through the part where you guys went to the carriage house. Now we're back to valet at the MGM.
Duane Davis (02:46:00):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:02):
You come out of the MGM, you're with a very large group of people, you get four vehicles, right?
Duane Davis (02:46:09):
Got it. We got in. There's three left. Three left.
Detective D. Long (02:46:13):
Okay. You get the Buick, which you drive over to Monte Carlo.
Duane Davis (02:46:17):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:18):
You get the Cadillac.
Duane Davis (02:46:19):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:19):
You got the van.
Duane Davis (02:46:20):
Van. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:21):
And you got the black Mercedes.
Duane Davis (02:46:22):
Mercedes stayed.
Detective D. Long (02:46:24):
It stays at the MGM?
Duane Davis (02:46:25):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:26):
Okay. Who gets into the black Mercedes?
Duane Davis (02:46:32):
I had a guy in there, had a chick Foxy Brown and Zip.
Detective D. Long (02:46:39):
Foxy Brown from TV or the movies?
Duane Davis (02:46:42):
Foxy Brown. The rapper.
Higgins (02:46:44):
There's a rapper called Foxy Brown.
Detective D. Long (02:46:45):
Yeah. Okay.
Higgins (02:46:47):
That's Foxy Brown, the movie that had?
Duane Davis (02:46:48):
Pam Grier.
Higgins (02:46:48):
Pam Grier.
Detective D. Long (02:46:48):
Right.
Dupree (02:46:53):
This is the young rapper.
Detective D. Long (02:46:54):
Okay, young rapper.
Dupree (02:46:54):
That's the one. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:46:54):
Okay.
Dupree (02:46:54):
Young rapper.
Detective D. Long (02:46:57):
All right. So there's the rapper, Zip.
Duane Davis (02:47:00):
And me.
Detective D. Long (02:47:02):
And you get into the Mercedes.
Duane Davis (02:47:04):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:47:05):
Okay. When you got in, what happens? Is anything said when you get in by anybody?
Duane Davis (02:47:17):
Yeah. I can't recall what the exact words were said.
Detective D. Long (02:47:20):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:47:22):
But huh he gave me the gun.
Detective D. Long (02:47:32):
Okay. Who gave you the gun?
Duane Davis (02:47:33):
Zip.
Detective D. Long (02:47:35):
Okay. Where did he get the gun from? The glove compartment?
Duane Davis (02:47:37):
It's a little secret compartment. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:47:40):
Oh, okay. What part of the vehicle was the secret compartment in?
Duane Davis (02:47:46):
Looks like up under this thing here.
Detective D. Long (02:47:48):
The armrest?
Duane Davis (02:47:48):
The centerfold.
Higgins (02:47:50):
The center rest?
Duane Davis (02:47:51):
Center rest and this thing came up.
Detective D. Long (02:47:53):
Okay. It's automated?
Duane Davis (02:47:56):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:47:57):
Mechanic?
Duane Davis (02:47:57):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:47:58):
Okay. So the three of you were still in the vehicle at that time?
Duane Davis (02:48:00):
No, it was just me and him. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:02):
Okay. Where did the -
Duane Davis (02:48:03):
He asked her to step out.
Detective D. Long (02:48:04):
Okay, this is before anything with the gun?
Duane Davis (02:48:06):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:07):
And she stepped out?
Duane Davis (02:48:08):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:09):
Okay. So now it's just you and Zip and he automates this thing and there's a gun there?
Duane Davis (02:48:17):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:18):
Okay. And he gives that gun to you?
Duane Davis (02:48:20):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:21):
And what kind of gun is it?
Duane Davis (02:48:21):
The 40 Glock.
Higgins (02:48:25):
The 40 Glock?
Detective D. Long (02:48:26):
40 Glock. Okay. I told you I'm going to ask stupid questions. I promise you I'm going to ask stupid questions. So he hands you the 40 caliber Glock. What does Zip say to you when he hands you this gun?
Duane Davis (02:48:39):
He's like handle your business, I guess. You know?
Detective D. Long (02:48:48):
Something of that nature.
Duane Davis (02:48:49):
Something like that. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:48:50):
Okay. And what did you take that to mean?
Duane Davis (02:48:53):
No, he asked us, did we need some help? We like, no, we don't need no help. We going to get some liquor. Chill.
Detective D. Long (02:48:59):
Sure.
Duane Davis (02:49:01):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:49:01):
What did you take, do you need some help to mean?
Duane Davis (02:49:05):
Like, let's go get them.
Detective D. Long (02:49:07):
Okay. Go get who?
Duane Davis (02:49:08):
The entourage.
Detective D. Long (02:49:11):
The entourage. You talking about Suge Night, Tupac?
Duane Davis (02:49:14):
We're like, "We don't need no help." We told the east coast guys that we going to get some liquor and we just happened to run in and everything else.
Detective D. Long (02:49:23):
Okay. But you took the gun?
Duane Davis (02:49:24):
Yeah, we took the gun.
Detective D. Long (02:49:25):
Okay. You say we. What do you mean by that?
Duane Davis (02:49:31):
Our little group took the gun from him. I've got the gun from...
Detective D. Long (02:49:37):
Okay. And what vehicle do you get into?
Duane Davis (02:49:40):
I got into that Buick.
Detective D. Long (02:49:42):
Okay. Do you still have the gun when you get into the Buick?
Duane Davis (02:49:44):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:49:45):
Okay. That's where I'm going.
Duane Davis (02:49:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:49:46):
You get the gun from Zip, then I gather you get out of the black Mercedes?
Duane Davis (02:49:51):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:49:52):
And what did you do then? Did you give the gun to somebody?
Duane Davis (02:50:01):
Yeah, I gave it to the Cadillac. I don't know who I specifically-
Duane Davis (02:50:00):
Yeah, I gave it to the Cadillac. I don't know who I specifically handed it to, but I gave the gun to Cadillac.
Higgins (02:50:01):
To who?
Duane Davis (02:50:01):
Huh?
Higgins (02:50:01):
To somebody in the Cadillac, you're saying?
Duane Davis (02:50:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:50:12):
The white Cadillac?
Duane Davis (02:50:13):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:50:13):
And the people in the white Cadillac are Orlando Anderson?
Duane Davis (02:50:16):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:50:17):
T. Brown.
Duane Davis (02:50:19):
And Big Dre.
Detective D. Long (02:50:20):
And Big Dre. But you handed it to one of those three guys?
Duane Davis (02:50:22):
Yeah. Handed it to Big Dre to be exact.
Detective D. Long (02:50:25):
Okay. So you handed it to Deandre Smith?
Duane Davis (02:50:27):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:50:28):
Okay. Did you say anything to Deandre when you handed him the gun?
Duane Davis (02:50:41):
No, I didn't say nothing to him. Then we went and dropped the car off and we-
Detective D. Long (02:50:44):
Well, if he hands me a gun, I'm going to say, "What the fuck? Why are you handing me a gun?"
Higgins (02:50:49):
Just stop.
Detective D. Long (02:50:50):
Yeah, okay. I got you.
Higgins (02:50:50):
Okay. Stop. Keefe, hold on. When he asks you a question, answer the question. Now whatever he says don't mean nothing right now. So just ask him a question. He going to answer the question. What's the specific question you got for him?
Detective D. Long (02:51:02):
Did you say anything to Deandre or anybody else in the car when you handed Deandre the gun?
Duane Davis (02:51:10):
No, I didn't say nothing to him.
Detective D. Long (02:51:12):
You just handed him a gun.
Higgins (02:51:13):
You handed it to him or if you recall saying something. Did you recall saying anything? Do you know?
Duane Davis (02:51:19):
I don't know. But I gave him the gun and he took it. Then we went to drop Paula off at the thing and we went up to the area looking for liquor, got the liquor.
Detective D. Long (02:51:33):
Okay. I'm going to slow you down again. Okay?
Duane Davis (02:51:35):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (02:51:38):
So you drop off Paula, you leave the Buick at the Monte Carlo.
Duane Davis (02:51:43):
Carlo.
Detective D. Long (02:51:44):
Then you get in what vehicle?
Duane Davis (02:51:46):
The van.
Detective D. Long (02:51:47):
You get in the van. Is there any discussion prior to going looking for liquor about the entourage?
Higgins (02:51:57):
He's asking specifically, did you tell anybody anything to do or anything related to that gun? So what if you recall?
Detective D. Long (02:52:04):
The gun or the entourage?
Higgins (02:52:05):
Yeah. Like get the motherfuckers or we getting ready to do whatever. Any of that kind of shit. Do you remember that?
Duane Davis (02:52:09):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:52:11):
Okay. Are there any other weapons?
Duane Davis (02:52:17):
Yeah, I think it was a nine.
Detective D. Long (02:52:19):
Who had the nine?
Duane Davis (02:52:20):
I was in the van.
Detective D. Long (02:52:22):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:52:22):
I don't know who had that nine.
Detective D. Long (02:52:25):
That's okay. Anything else?
Duane Davis (02:52:30):
I said when we went to the MGM, after we walked by the Coca-Cola place, I was in the middle of me, Dre, and what's his name? At the crosswalk, and dude pulled up in the... they pull up in the Ambulance right next to us. I'm went, "Damn."
Dupree (02:52:49):
That was after he shot.
Detective D. Long (02:53:00):
Okay. Yeah, I gotcha. Okay. I know this is difficult. I completely understand it.
Duane Davis (02:53:02):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:53:06):
What I'm looking for specifically is Orlando or anybody else say anything about looking for the entourage?
Duane Davis (02:53:17):
No, we just got lucky [inaudible 02:53:18].
Higgins (02:53:18):
You're talking about before?
Detective D. Long (02:53:19):
Before anything happens.
Higgins (02:53:20):
Yeah. Meaning was y'all looking for them or did you happen to bump into them? That's what he's really asking.
Duane Davis (02:53:25):
We happened to bump into them.
Detective D. Long (02:53:27):
Okay. But you weren't looking for them.
Dupree (02:53:29):
Did you guys go to the club or anything looking for him?
Duane Davis (02:53:32):
Yeah, we went to the club.
Dupree (02:53:33):
Which club?
Duane Davis (02:53:35):
626.
Dupree (02:53:36):
That was after the incident?
Duane Davis (02:53:39):
It's before the incident. [inaudible 02:53:42] the time.
Detective D. Long (02:53:44):
Okay. So you leave. Let's start over. You leave the MGM, you drop Paula off at the Monte Carlo, and you leave the Buick there.
Duane Davis (02:53:51):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:53:52):
Okay. Now this is before you go get liquor.
Duane Davis (02:53:54):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:53:56):
Did you go to the 662 club from Monte Carlo?
Duane Davis (02:53:59):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:53:59):
What does 662 mean?
Duane Davis (02:54:03):
I think Blood, or mob, whatever.
Detective D. Long (02:54:05):
Mob? If you dial a phone, comes out as mob? Okay. What your Bloods?
Duane Davis (02:54:10):
Which are Bloods. After that, we went to the store and got the liquor and we happened to run into the-
Detective D. Long (02:54:16):
Okay.
Higgins (02:54:16):
Okay. He'll go back to that.
Detective D. Long (02:54:17):
Yeah. When you went to the 662 club, did you see anything? Did you go inside?
Duane Davis (02:54:23):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:54:24):
Okay. Did you see anything? What were you looking for at the 662 club?
Duane Davis (02:54:31):
We were seeing if they was there.
Detective D. Long (02:54:33):
Who?
Duane Davis (02:54:37):
The Mob dudes. Death Row.
Detective D. Long (02:54:38):
Death Row, meaning who?
Duane Davis (02:54:41):
The dudes that meet Orlando.
Detective D. Long (02:54:42):
Okay. Specifically who?
Duane Davis (02:54:44):
Suge.
Detective D. Long (02:54:46):
Suge Knight and?
Duane Davis (02:54:50):
Suge.
Detective D. Long (02:54:50):
You wanted to seal it. Okay. Understood. All right. So you go to the 662 club. Suge's not there or that you can see, he's not there. Did you send anybody inside to look for Suge?
Duane Davis (02:55:00):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:55:01):
No? You just went up and saw that his vehicles weren't there or did you ask if he was there?
Higgins (02:55:07):
How did you determine he was not there [inaudible 02:55:10]?
Detective D. Long (02:55:07):
Their you go.
Duane Davis (02:55:07):
The vehicles weren't there.
Detective D. Long (02:55:11):
Their vehicles were not there? Okay. So were you going to wait at the 662 Club for Suge to show up?
Duane Davis (02:55:21):
No, that would be too dangerous.
Detective D. Long (02:55:23):
Okay. So you leave the 662 Club and you decide you're going to go get some liquor?
Duane Davis (02:55:28):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:55:29):
And you go find the liquor store at Maryland Parkway in Flamingo?
Duane Davis (02:55:36):
Yeah. And the liquor store there, the liquor store on the corner right there.
Detective D. Long (02:55:37):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (02:55:37):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:55:39):
Okay. All right. So you pick up some booze.
Duane Davis (02:55:42):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:55:43):
And you talk while you're getting the liquor. Is there any discussion at that place?
Duane Davis (02:55:51):
I just got into the Cadillac with Orlando and then pulled out.
Detective D. Long (02:55:55):
Okay. I'm looking for discussion. Any discussion about, are you going to go back to the 662 club?
Duane Davis (02:56:01):
No, we was going back to the room to go smoke and drink.
Detective D. Long (02:56:02):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:56:06):
Orlando was like, "Man, my arms feel broke."
Detective D. Long (02:56:09):
Okay.
Duane Davis (02:56:09):
Yeah. He was like, "I need to go to the doctor."
Detective D. Long (02:56:12):
Okay. So you jumped into the Cadillac with Lane?
Duane Davis (02:56:15):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:56:17):
What was your plan?
Duane Davis (02:56:20):
Go back to the MGM.
Detective D. Long (02:56:21):
To go back to-
Duane Davis (02:56:21):
Not the MGM, but the Monte Carlo.
Detective D. Long (02:56:24):
Monte Carlo? Okay. You went to the 662 Club to find Suge. Was there any discussion by anybody about what you would do with Suge if you found Suge?
Duane Davis (02:56:37):
No. The car I was in was scared.
Detective D. Long (02:56:41):
The van you were in was scared?
Duane Davis (02:56:43):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:56:44):
No one really wanted to really get down like that.
Duane Davis (02:56:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:56:47):
What about Baby Lang and the Cadillac? They had a gun, right?
Duane Davis (02:56:53):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:56:54):
They had just gotten a gun from Zip.
Duane Davis (02:56:56):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:56:58):
What was your understanding would happen if they saw Suge?
Higgins (02:57:02):
Well, he's asking you really a specific-
Duane Davis (02:57:04):
[inaudible 02:57:06] Suge?
Higgins (02:57:06):
Okay, listen to me. He's asking you a specific question. Was there first any conversation with regards to what was going to happen to anybody? Did you say or anybody say, "Well, we going to kill him when you see him"? Any of that kind of stuff? Was there a conversation, "This is what we going to do," any of that? That's what he's really asking you.
Detective D. Long (02:57:23):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (02:57:24):
No, I was just going to say when I got out the car with them, I was like [inaudible 02:57:28] Busters over there scared to death.
Detective D. Long (02:57:30):
The ones in who?
Duane Davis (02:57:30):
In the van.
Detective D. Long (02:57:30):
In the van?
Duane Davis (02:57:32):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:57:34):
Okay. Was the ones in the Cadillac, were they scared?
Duane Davis (02:57:39):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:57:39):
Okay. That's fine. Without conversation, was there any understanding? Did you understand that if the guys in the Cadillac saw Suge, something was going to happen?
Higgins (02:57:52):
Well, I can't be understand without conversation, but he's saying in your mind... He's trying to get inside of your head and ask you, in your mind, did you think that somebody was going to kill Suge?
Duane Davis (02:58:00):
No.
Detective D. Long (02:58:01):
No, not kill him or light him up.
Higgins (02:58:03):
Anything.
Detective D. Long (02:58:04):
Shoot at him.
Higgins (02:58:04):
Any kind of physical. Was that what you was thinking?
Duane Davis (02:58:06):
I wasn't thinking that. We was going to go to get high. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:58:12):
Okay. Fine. That's good.
Higgins (02:58:14):
So what you're really saying is that you guys ran into him inadvertently.
Duane Davis (02:58:19):
Yeah.
Higgins (02:58:19):
And although you went over to 662, if something might have happened and got down, but when you left there-
Duane Davis (02:58:25):
Yeah, I was like, yeah, we gone. Orlando was like, "Man, my arm feel broke."
Detective D. Long (02:58:28):
Okay. Understood.
Higgins (02:58:32):
Different focus.
Duane Davis (02:58:33):
Yeah. Our mindset was different once we left that liquor store.
Detective D. Long (02:58:38):
Your intent at that point was drink some, get a little high, and forget about it?
Higgins (02:58:44):
Yeah, get some pussy, basically.
Detective D. Long (02:58:47):
[inaudible 02:58:46]. All right. So you're heading-
Duane Davis (02:58:48):
We got lucky and ran into him.
Detective D. Long (02:58:50):
You're going west on Flamingo?
Duane Davis (02:58:51):
[inaudible 02:58:53].
Higgins (02:58:54):
You Ran into him?
Duane Davis (02:58:54):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:58:54):
You're going west on Flamingo towards the Boulevard and you see the entourage going eastbound on Flamingo from the Boulevard?
Duane Davis (02:59:00):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:59:01):
And the first car in the row is that BMW?
Duane Davis (02:59:05):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:59:06):
And you're in the Cadillac at this point?
Duane Davis (02:59:09):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:59:10):
Dre has the gun at this point?
Duane Davis (02:59:12):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (02:59:13):
Okay. Now picture yourself, you're going westbound, you see him going eastbound. Does somebody in the car say something?
Higgins (02:59:22):
To themselves or anybody?
Detective D. Long (02:59:24):
Anybody. I don't care.
Duane Davis (02:59:28):
[inaudible 02:59:26]. There they go.
Detective D. Long (02:59:28):
There they go. Okay. And does anybody, say, turn around?
Duane Davis (02:59:34):
No, he just bust a U.
Detective D. Long (02:59:36):
Who's driving again?
Duane Davis (02:59:37):
Terry Brown.
Detective D. Long (02:59:38):
T. Brown. He turns a U-turn. What happens then? Does anybody say anything?
Duane Davis (02:59:44):
No. Orlando just got... Dre was scared. He stuck the gun and got to poppin.
Detective D. Long (02:59:56):
How do you know that Dre was scared?
Duane Davis (03:00:02):
He didn't do nothing.
Detective D. Long (03:00:02):
Did he say anything?
Duane Davis (03:00:02):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:00:02):
Did he point the gun?
Duane Davis (03:00:04):
No.
Higgins (03:00:05):
Did he say, "I don't want to do it," or he just-
Duane Davis (03:00:06):
Lando was like, "Give it to me."
Higgins (03:00:08):
He snatched the gun from his hand, right?
Duane Davis (03:00:09):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:00:09):
Dre never said a word?
Duane Davis (03:00:09):
He never said a word.
Detective D. Long (03:00:13):
Just kind of locked up?
Duane Davis (03:00:14):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:00:14):
Okay. And Orlando [inaudible 03:00:19].
Duane Davis (03:00:19):
I figured, Dre ain't as bad as Lando is, but he had got beat up on him.
Detective D. Long (03:00:23):
Right.
Duane Davis (03:00:23):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:00:25):
Okay. But there's no conversation. Orlando said, "Just give me the gun."
Duane Davis (03:00:30):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:00:31):
Takes the gun from him.
Duane Davis (03:00:32):
He's popping.
Detective D. Long (03:00:33):
Gets to shooting.
Duane Davis (03:00:34):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:00:36):
So were you guys already on the side of him when he took the gun and he started popping?
Duane Davis (03:00:39):
Yeah. We were already on the side.
Higgins (03:00:40):
Like immediately at that point.
Detective D. Long (03:00:43):
At the point.
Duane Davis (03:00:45):
[inaudible 03:00:45] Yeah. And he got to popping.
Dupree (03:00:47):
He didn't hesistate, he grabbed it and started popping.
Judge (03:00:50):
How much longer is that watching the recording?
Higgins (03:00:52):
There's about 30 minutes. So you want to take a lunch break, we'll finish the 30, call a witness that we won't get through today.
Judge (03:00:58):
That works. We'll take our lunch break now. The food has been delivered. I don't want it to get too cold. So at this time we will recess. During this recess, you're admonished not to talk, converse amongst yourselves or with anyone else on any subject connected to the trial or read, watch or listen to any report of or commentary on the trial of any person connected to this case by any meaning of information, including without limitation, useful for television, internet, and radio, or form or express any opinion on any subject connected with the trial until the case is submitted to you. We'll have you guys back here at 1:30. Please rise for the jury. Hang on one sec. For the record, the jury... Maybe it's accident. Okay. Yes. What's up?
Duane Davis (03:02:06):
They keep giving out my address. They broken my house, vandalized my house, vandalized my wife car. You know what I'm saying? They keep giving on our address. Now they gave out my sister address. This stuff is wrong.
Judge (03:02:22):
I've heard it's going on both ways, that there's concerns both ways.
Duane Davis (03:02:26):
They're wrong.
Judge (03:02:27):
I've admonished them to talk to their witnesses and anyone they can communicate about these issues. Okay? So your attorney let me know what's going on.
Duane Davis (03:02:34):
I get beat up by the cops. The guy attacked me in here, sent me to prison. This is wrong and it's mostly this guy.
Judge (03:02:48):
For the record, you're pointing at Mr. [inaudible 03:02:49].
Higgins (03:02:49):
Yeah. For the record, I think he's indicating he's upset I'm prosecuting him for murder.
Duane Davis (03:02:52):
No, I'm not upset because you're prosecuting. You're endangering my family's life.
Judge (03:02:58):
Okay. State again, like we talked about at the bench, you're going to stay in communication with your witnesses about not doing any of that. It goes both ways. Mr. Samps, you'll talk to your client about not communicating with witnesses as well.
Mr. Samps (03:03:14):
Yes, ma'am.
Judge (03:03:15):
Okay, perfect. We'll be in recess. Thanks everybody. All right. We're back on record in State versus Davis C377407. Anything we need to address before we bring the jury in?
Detective D. Long (03:03:31):
Not from the state.
Mr. Samps (03:03:32):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (03:03:33):
Timing wise, we're going to finish off with the statement and then you have a witness that you're going to get started but not finished, correct?
Detective D. Long (03:03:37):
Correct.
Judge (03:03:38):
Okay. Sounds good. Let's bring in the jury. Randy? Not ready?
Randy (03:04:03):
They're lining up right now.
Judge (03:04:03):
Okay.
Higgins (03:04:09):
Did the courthouse turn off the AC thing? A little warm in here.
Speaker X (03:04:14):
I agree.
Judge (03:04:19):
It's always warm in the room. I don't know.
Speaker X (03:04:20):
[inaudible 03:04:24].
Speaker 5 (03:04:20):
I think that's why.
Judge (03:05:22):
Do the parties stipulate to the presence of the jury?
Higgins (03:05:25):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge (03:05:25):
All right. You may be seated. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are in the middle of exhibit... Well, two thirds of the way through exhibit number 118. State, you may resume playing whenever you're ready.
Higgins (03:05:41):
Thank you. Okay. So you're saying you didn't know that Orlando was going... He was going to shoot him when he wasn't a planned shooter?
Duane Davis (03:05:51):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:05:52):
There was no plan at that time?
Duane Davis (03:05:54):
At all, period.
Detective D. Long (03:05:55):
It was a lucky coincidence.
Duane Davis (03:06:02):
Yeah, we ran into him. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:06:02):
Okay.
Higgins (03:06:02):
It just happened, is what you're saying?
Duane Davis (03:06:03):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:06:03):
Okay. All right. I don't know how to word this.
Higgins (03:06:14):
You're doing good jobs.
Detective D. Long (03:06:22):
Okay. So he does the shooting, you turn, the girls start to follow you. Orlando puts another round off. The girls decide not to follow you.
Duane Davis (03:06:30):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:06:31):
And then you drive away and go to the Carriage house. Is there any conversation before he splits from you? Orlando? Before he leaves you?
Duane Davis (03:06:39):
Uh-uh.
Detective D. Long (03:06:41):
He doesn't tell you at that time, "I'm going to go..."
Duane Davis (03:06:44):
He told us after he got there.
Detective D. Long (03:06:46):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:06:47):
I was like, "Man, we ran right into him at the parking lot. That was a trip. They was right here and we was at the crosswalk in the middle of Las Vegas Boulevard." Like damn.
Detective D. Long (03:07:03):
Oh, when you were walking back?
Duane Davis (03:07:04):
Yeah, when we was walking back, the ambulance and Suge and Tupac to the back of the ambulance right by us. We could have said hi.
Detective D. Long (03:07:20):
Did Suge see you?
Duane Davis (03:07:21):
I don't know.
Dupree (03:07:22):
Okay. Did he know it was you that was in the car when they did the shooting?
Higgins (03:07:25):
He could have seen you.
Duane Davis (03:07:27):
He could have seen me, yeah.
Higgins (03:07:28):
You think he might have? It could be possible.
Duane Davis (03:07:30):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:07:31):
What I'm asking is, did you guys make eye contact? Did you and Suge make eye contact? You made eye contact with him?
Duane Davis (03:07:53):
It looked like.
Detective D. Long (03:07:53):
Okay. And this is when you were walking?
Duane Davis (03:07:53):
No, this was-
Detective D. Long (03:07:53):
During the shooting?
Duane Davis (03:07:53):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:07:56):
You could have made eye contact with him.
Duane Davis (03:07:56):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:07:56):
Oh, okay.
Duane Davis (03:07:56):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:07:56):
So during the shooting, you made eye contact with Suge?
Duane Davis (03:07:56):
It looked like he seen it.
Higgins (03:07:57):
You believe that?
Duane Davis (03:07:58):
Yeah, I believe that.
Detective D. Long (03:08:02):
Okay. All right.
Duane Davis (03:08:02):
That's why he said, "Y'all had the right mother-fuckers."
Detective D. Long (03:08:05):
Say it again.
Duane Davis (03:08:06):
Remember he said in that interview, "Y'all had the right mother-fuckers. Y'all had your man." Y'all remember him saying that?
Detective D. Long (03:08:13):
Yeah, I do. And what do you think he was referring to?
Higgins (03:08:18):
To Orlando?
Duane Davis (03:08:19):
Yeah, Orlando.
Detective D. Long (03:08:19):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:08:23):
I remember he said that when he was at his office. "Y'all had your man." Then he did all of that book interview, all that shit, about this mother fucker.
Higgins (03:08:37):
That's strange that he did that.
Duane Davis (03:08:38):
Yeah. You don't remember him saying that?
Detective D. Long (03:08:39):
No, I remember something to the effect. Did you think he was going to-
Duane Davis (03:08:40):
I thought he was, yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:08:48):
Press charges on you?
Higgins (03:08:49):
On who?
Duane Davis (03:08:50):
Orlando really kind of saved him.
Detective D. Long (03:08:52):
Well, anybody. Did you think Suge was going to tell the police?
Higgins (03:08:56):
No, you know if they're going to ask that question. Suge wasn't going to tell on them. But answer the question.
Duane Davis (03:09:00):
I though he was.
Detective D. Long (03:09:00):
You know what he was?
Higgins (03:09:00):
You really did?
Duane Davis (03:09:07):
Yeah, because he just had the music in the street view. You know what I'm saying? And like y'all, but the street people wasn't scared of him. You see now he gets beat up every week.
Detective D. Long (03:09:18):
Yeah. So the police actually came and did some search warrants.
Duane Davis (03:09:23):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:09:25):
You remember that you were there for that?
Duane Davis (03:09:26):
Yeah. I got away about five minutes before y'all came.
Detective D. Long (03:09:34):
Okay. And they got into the house on houses on Burris as well as quite a few other places.
Duane Davis (03:09:39):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:09:39):
They actually took quite a few guns.
Duane Davis (03:09:41):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:09:42):
Yeah. They didn't get the right gun?
Duane Davis (03:09:46):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:09:46):
Do you have any idea now where that gun might have gone?
Duane Davis (03:09:51):
No idea.
Detective D. Long (03:09:53):
Never heard anything about it?
Duane Davis (03:09:54):
Never heard anything about it.
Detective D. Long (03:09:57):
Orlando never say anything about it? Who went back and got the Cadillac?
Duane Davis (03:10:03):
T. Brown drove it on.
Detective D. Long (03:10:04):
So T. Brown would've had the gun at some point?
Duane Davis (03:10:06):
Not that I can recall.
Detective D. Long (03:10:12):
You didn't hear anything about that?
Dupree (03:10:14):
Nobody never discussed where the gun is. Never. Never.
Detective D. Long (03:10:18):
Okay.
Higgins (03:10:19):
Tell them why that happened because... What was your mind saying?
Duane Davis (03:10:22):
What was that?
Higgins (03:10:22):
Why wouldn't you not discuss the gun?
Duane Davis (03:10:28):
I was trying to get far away from La Vegas as I possibly could.
Higgins (03:10:30):
All right. It wasn't on your priority list.
Duane Davis (03:10:34):
Yeah, I was trying to get the fuck up out of there.
Detective D. Long (03:10:36):
When did you leave Las Vegas?
Duane Davis (03:10:40):
We left the next morning.
Detective D. Long (03:10:41):
I'm sorry?
Duane Davis (03:10:41):
We left the next morning because we figured y'all would be looking for a Cadillac on the road.
Detective D. Long (03:10:46):
Okay. So you left in the Buick?
Duane Davis (03:10:48):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:10:48):
With Pamela or Paula, I'm sorry.
Duane Davis (03:10:51):
Me, Paul, and Lane.
Detective D. Long (03:10:53):
Oh, Lane drove back with you?
Duane Davis (03:10:54):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:10:54):
What did Lane say about the shooting to you?
Duane Davis (03:10:58):
He was just nervous all the way back. And he was like, "Man," because he went on to the doctor and got [inaudible 03:11:05] his name at the same hospital.
Detective D. Long (03:11:04):
At what hospital?
Higgins (03:11:04):
Where Tupac was.
Duane Davis (03:11:04):
Yeah. On Maryland Parkway.
Detective D. Long (03:11:04):
Really?
Duane Davis (03:11:04):
Yeah.
Dupree (03:11:04):
The next day or the same night?
Duane Davis (03:11:05):
That same night got a sling for his arm and everything.
Dupree (03:11:05):
While they were in the hospital?
Duane Davis (03:11:05):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:11:09):
Tupac was taken to a trauma center, not on Maryland Parkway. There is a hospital on Maryland Parkway.
Duane Davis (03:11:12):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:11:20):
And you think that is-
Duane Davis (03:11:32):
That's where he got... Yeah. Got a sling and everything. He was fucked up. They fucked him up bad.
Detective D. Long (03:11:40):
Okay. I'm looking for anything Orlando might have said about the shooting. When did you find out that-
Duane Davis (03:11:47):
That they was hit?
Detective D. Long (03:11:48):
Yeah, Tupac was hit. Suge was grazed.
Duane Davis (03:11:54):
Cory had came from the MGM and said everybody talking about Tupac was shot.
Detective D. Long (03:12:03):
What did Orlando feel about that?
Higgins (03:12:05):
Well, did he say anything?
Detective D. Long (03:12:07):
No.
Higgins (03:12:07):
There you go.
Duane Davis (03:12:09):
He didn't say nothing.
Detective D. Long (03:12:10):
He didn't say anything?
Duane Davis (03:12:11):
No. We was already scared of Cory because they were saying he was-
Higgins (03:12:21):
They wouldn't say nothing in front of Cory, anyway.
Duane Davis (03:12:21):
Yeah, we was scared of him. So we didn't really mention nothing around him.
Detective D. Long (03:12:21):
Okay. Now... Go ahead.
Duane Davis (03:12:26):
He got wind.
Detective D. Long (03:12:32):
Who got?
Duane Davis (03:12:32):
Cory, then he found out, and shit.
Detective D. Long (03:12:38):
You lost me. Go ahead.
Duane Davis (03:12:40):
I said Cory, when he found out what happened and, he got to telling everybody... Told.
Higgins (03:12:45):
Well, he found out what he though happened because he wasn't there, right?
Duane Davis (03:12:47):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:12:47):
Okay.
Dupree (03:12:49):
So the van... We'll get back to that real quick, but the van, it didn't catch up to you guys at all? It wasn't even nowhere near the shooting at that time?
Duane Davis (03:12:57):
They didn't ever know we had did it.
Dupree (03:12:59):
None of those guys?
Duane Davis (03:13:00):
None of those guys.
Detective D. Long (03:13:02):
So you didn't even tell them you did it? How about when you get back to the Compton? Did you tell everybody you did [inaudible 03:13:09]?
Higgins (03:13:11):
Okay. He asked you two questions. It's not on purpose. Okay. But just listen carefully to his question. His first question is-
Duane Davis (03:13:17):
Did I tell anybody?
Detective D. Long (03:13:18):
Yes.
Duane Davis (03:13:19):
Never. The first time I even mentioned it to anybody was when I told him that was my deepest secret.
Higgins (03:13:26):
Your lawyer didn't even know, right?
Detective D. Long (03:13:29):
I understand [inaudible 03:13:30].
Higgins (03:13:29):
Keefe, your lawyer didn't even know, right?
Duane Davis (03:13:32):
No. And all the little dudes be on the internet, "We killed Tupac," and you cannot be doing that. You know what I'm saying? Stupid motherfuckers. A murder is never over.
Higgins (03:13:43):
Keefe, is he asking you a question?
Detective D. Long (03:13:44):
No, no, no. Right now-
Higgins (03:13:46):
Quit rambling. Just let him answer the question so we can go.
Detective D. Long (03:13:51):
The Burris Crew.
Duane Davis (03:13:52):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:13:53):
South Side Crips. When you got back into Compton, did you have a meeting with your crew?
Duane Davis (03:14:05):
Not with our crew. After all that shooting, we gave a meeting. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:14:06):
All the killings?
Duane Davis (03:14:10):
All the shooting, yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:14:12):
What did the meeting consist of then?
Duane Davis (03:14:16):
What'd you say?
Detective D. Long (03:14:16):
What happened at that meeting?
Duane Davis (03:14:19):
What happened at that meeting? I said we'll take care of all the heavyweight dudes and y'all just take care of all the neighborhood dudes.
Detective D. Long (03:14:30):
Okay.
Dupree (03:14:31):
But he had some time that you kind of told them, "Look man, this is all because of Tupac because something happened down there," something like that.
Duane Davis (03:14:36):
I should-
Higgins (03:14:43):
He's trying to refresh your memory, so just listen to what he says because he's not trying to testify.
Duane Davis (03:14:47):
Y'all shouldn't have ever gave that meeting.
Detective D. Long (03:14:47):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:14:47):
Should have never gave them. That meeting, ah-
Detective D. Long (03:14:55):
At the point that you have that meeting, it's a full on war.
Duane Davis (03:15:00):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:15:00):
A lot of people dying.
Duane Davis (03:15:03):
Yeah. We only lost one person.
Detective D. Long (03:15:06):
That would be?
Duane Davis (03:15:07):
Bobby Fitch.
Detective D. Long (03:15:09):
Okay.
Dupree (03:15:10):
But you're the boss, so you trying to just have a meeting to tell everybody what's going on, watch your back. This is why A, B, C, and D is happening, because you're the boss.
Duane Davis (03:15:20):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:15:24):
Okay. What was said at the meeting?
Duane Davis (03:15:31):
Said at the meeting? Shit I just told them be careful. Y'all take care of all the gang members, the street level guys and we're the heavyweight guys.
Dupree (03:15:39):
But isn't that the time that you told them like... Alluded to the fact that somebody from South Side had killed Tupac?
Duane Davis (03:15:50):
I never told nobody that. Never said that because I know better than that. The first time I ever told somebody was y'all. I didn't tell my sisters. I didn't tell my brothers. I didn't tell nobody nothing. I don't know if Lando told anybody or nothing, but I never told nobody shit. Nothing like that.
Detective D. Long (03:16:08):
Did the Cadillac go any place?
Duane Davis (03:16:10):
Did he go any place?
Detective D. Long (03:16:11):
Well, you said that Dre drove it back.
Duane Davis (03:16:14):
No, T. Brown drove it back.
Detective D. Long (03:16:16):
Okay. T. Brown. I'm sorry. T. Brown drove it back, back to Los Angeles.
Duane Davis (03:16:23):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:16:23):
What-
Duane Davis (03:16:24):
Did he go to a car wash?
Detective D. Long (03:16:25):
Yes.
Duane Davis (03:16:26):
No, hell no.
Detective D. Long (03:16:27):
Nothing like that?
Duane Davis (03:16:27):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:16:29):
He turned it back in-
Duane Davis (03:16:30):
Turned it in to the rent a car.
Detective D. Long (03:16:34):
All right.
Duane Davis (03:16:35):
He dropped that thing. They going to wash it, regardless.
Dupree (03:16:37):
No bullet holes, no body shop, no nothing.
Duane Davis (03:16:37):
No nothing.
Dupree (03:16:37):
None of that never happened.
Duane Davis (03:16:37):
None of that happened.
Detective D. Long (03:16:43):
Were there any casings left inside that car?
Duane Davis (03:16:47):
No, he got that shit up out of there.
Detective D. Long (03:16:49):
T. Brown did?
Duane Davis (03:16:50):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:16:51):
When did he do that?
Duane Davis (03:16:53):
Shit, before he left Las Vegas.
Detective D. Long (03:16:54):
Do you know where he did that? Was it there in the parking lot at the carriage house or do you have any idea where he cleaned it up?
Duane Davis (03:17:01):
I didn't even go over there. I ain't go nowhere near where that Cadillac.
Detective D. Long (03:17:05):
I understand that. But he didn't say anything about, "I took care of it, I cleaned it out," anything like that?
Duane Davis (03:17:11):
No.
Higgins (03:17:12):
No [inaudible 03:17:15].
Duane Davis (03:17:17):
I didn't tell nobody nothing that we killed Tupac, none of that shit. Never. That was my deepest secret in my life.
Detective D. Long (03:17:26):
That would cause problems?
Duane Davis (03:17:27):
Yeah. I told them the first day.
Detective D. Long (03:17:30):
T. Brown's still alive?
Duane Davis (03:17:32):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:17:33):
Where's he at?
Higgins (03:17:35):
Tell him.
Duane Davis (03:17:37):
He over here in LA somewhere. We hanging out by the Millennium once in that. You fit arrest down?
Detective D. Long (03:17:42):
No.
Higgins (03:17:42):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:17:46):
I'm just looking for information. That's all.
Duane Davis (03:17:54):
Okay. Y'all had him. Y'all didn't get me-
Higgins (03:17:55):
Keefe, did he ask you a question? Let him ask you a question.
Detective D. Long (03:18:04):
Have you discussed this with T. Brown since?
Duane Davis (03:18:10):
Since?
Detective D. Long (03:18:10):
Since Tupac died.
Duane Davis (03:18:10):
Man, I'm not even going to lie.
Detective D. Long (03:18:13):
I know. Have you two discussed it?
Duane Davis (03:18:17):
Yeah, all the time. What?
Detective D. Long (03:18:20):
Would T. Brown talk to me?
Duane Davis (03:18:21):
What? He might. I don't know. I don't know. He might. But yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:18:31):
Do you think he stashed that gun? I'm just asking for your opinion at this point.
Higgins (03:18:35):
Yeah, but that gun is an interesting thing.
Detective D. Long (03:18:39):
You know how many years I've been hunting that fucking thing?
Higgins (03:18:42):
Yeah, it seems to be... It hasn't popped up. Tell him what you know about the gun. Where could it be? Or if you have any idea who might have took it. Just think off the top of your head. Someone come back and got it. Anything you can think of?
Duane Davis (03:18:53):
I didn't go nowhere near that gun.
Detective D. Long (03:18:53):
I understand that.
Higgins (03:18:59):
What I'm saying is, do you have an impression? Did anyone mention something about maybe they went back and got it or someone took a special interest with it? So you might think... Is there a particular person you think that went and took the gun?
Duane Davis (03:19:08):
I don't know. T. Brown probably would know [inaudible 03:19:13].
Dupree (03:19:13):
Is T. Brown the kind of person that would keep a gun like that because of-
Duane Davis (03:19:17):
Hell no.
Dupree (03:19:18):
You think he got rid of it? He would not keep it as a joke?
Duane Davis (03:19:22):
Hell no. Shit no. Not at all. Me and him the only one we be talking about, we only do two dudes alive and [inaudible 03:19:32].
Dupree (03:19:32):
He never said nothing about the gun though, never.
Higgins (03:19:33):
Yeah, that's what he was trying to figure out.
Dupree (03:19:37):
Never.
Duane Davis (03:19:37):
But we know who all told all this because we-
Higgins (03:19:40):
He didn't ask you that question.
Detective D. Long (03:19:40):
Okay, who told on you?
Higgins (03:19:40):
He asked a question about the gun, okay? Damn, Keefe.
Duane Davis (03:19:40):
Oh.
Higgins (03:19:43):
You be here all day. It's cool. You got as much time as you want, but okay, come on. Okay, go on. Ask the question.
Detective D. Long (03:19:52):
Who told on you?
Duane Davis (03:19:53):
Cory.
Detective D. Long (03:19:53):
Cory.
Duane Davis (03:19:53):
[inaudible 03:19:57].
Higgins (03:20:00):
How many times do we... Can I just say something real quick?
Detective D. Long (03:20:01):
Sure.
Higgins (03:20:01):
Okay, this is it. How many times do we got to talk about Cory? Okay, but just give to him whatever you want, but he got a fixation on Cory. Every time we got to talk about any subject, you're bringing up Cory. So now get what you want. Okay, but I'm just saying I'm tired of Cory's personal stuff. Say what you going to say.
Dupree (03:20:17):
That man will say nothing, man.
Higgins (03:20:18):
What are you going to stop on the dude? You got a person he just thinks hates him and snitching and I wouldn't care what you talk about, he going to bring up Cory's name. Leave the dude alone.
Dupree (03:20:37):
He was jealous of Keefe from what I heard. He didn't tell nobody.
Higgins (03:20:38):
Yeah, just leave the dude alone, but go and answer [inaudible 03:20:41].
Detective D. Long (03:20:42):
Okay. All right. All right. At this point, what I'd like to do is ask you about the rumors I've heard over the years.
Higgins (03:20:49):
About him?
Detective D. Long (03:20:50):
About him.
Higgins (03:20:50):
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:20:51):
That's where I'm going to go.
Higgins (03:20:54):
Now we need to take a break for a second so I can explain something to him. And I just tell you, I don't have a problem with that. But Keefe has a way of boasting. Keefe, I can do this in front of him. Just answer the questions.
Duane Davis (03:21:05):
Okay.
Higgins (03:21:06):
Don't get into all that. Okay. Now go and answer whatever you want.
Detective D. Long (03:21:14):
Puffy Combs. Does he play a role in this thing?
Higgins (03:21:19):
Answer the question directly. Tell him what you think.
Duane Davis (03:21:24):
Did he play a role in it?
Higgins (03:21:25):
You don't hesitate, just tell him.
Duane Davis (03:21:26):
Yeah, I think he did.
Detective D. Long (03:21:33):
Okay. The rumor I heard was he was directly involved. Going back to money. Was he involved money-wise in this?
Duane Davis (03:21:46):
We didn't get paid.
Higgins (03:21:50):
Okay, you didn't get paid. Do you believe he paid somebody? Did somebody get paid for this?
Dupree (03:21:54):
To your knowledge.
Duane Davis (03:21:54):
To my knowledge.
Dupree (03:21:57):
What do you believe?
Duane Davis (03:22:02):
We didn't get no money in California.
(03:22:03)
Okay.
Higgins (03:22:07):
You think he [inaudible 03:22:07] money at some other point? Someone else or what?
Duane Davis (03:22:09):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:22:10):
Didn't answer the question. I'm saying telling him what you think.
Detective D. Long (03:22:12):
Do you think somebody got paid?
Duane Davis (03:22:13):
Yeah. Zip.
Detective D. Long (03:22:16):
Zip got paid.
Duane Davis (03:22:17):
That's what we think. Yeah. That's the word on the street.
Higgins (03:22:20):
You think Zip set it up and Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:22:21):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:22:22):
Okay. That's what he's telling you.
Detective D. Long (03:22:25):
No, shit. You think Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:22:28):
Yeah, that's the word on the street.
Detective D. Long (03:22:31):
How much money do you think Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:22:34):
I don't know.
Detective D. Long (03:22:36):
Nothing, that you have no idea?
Higgins (03:22:38):
But Zip's looking pretty good right now, huh?
Duane Davis (03:22:39):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:22:41):
So it was Puffy.
Duane Davis (03:22:46):
What's his name told me? What's his name?
Dupree (03:22:47):
D-Mac?
Duane Davis (03:22:47):
D-Mac.
Detective D. Long (03:22:49):
Who's D-Mac?
Dupree (03:22:50):
[inaudible 03:22:51].
Detective D. Long (03:22:52):
Oh, okay. Okay. All right. What did D-Mac tell you?
Duane Davis (03:23:00):
He said they got off on [inaudible 03:23:06] Zip did because he got paid. We pulled that Biggie's bag out here when he got killed. So they fell out. They ain't been speaking or nothing. Said, "Yeah, your boy got the money. I heard. Is that right?"
Detective D. Long (03:23:26):
Okay. Have you ever had personal contact with Puffy?
Duane Davis (03:23:29):
Since that happened?
Detective D. Long (03:23:31):
No. Anytime.
Duane Davis (03:23:33):
A whole lot of time.
Detective D. Long (03:23:35):
You know Puffy?
Duane Davis (03:23:36):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:23:37):
Okay.
Higgins (03:23:37):
He knows him.
Detective D. Long (03:23:39):
And he knows you?
Duane Davis (03:23:40):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:23:41):
So you had contact with him prior to the events in Las Vegas?
Duane Davis (03:23:46):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:23:46):
Okay. Did Puff ever indicate to you-
Higgins (03:23:51):
Keefe, if you don't mind me butting in?
Detective D. Long (03:23:54):
No, go a head.
Higgins (03:23:55):
Keefe, explain to him your relationship with Puff and Zip and did Puffy take an interest in having Suge or anybody killed over here?
Higgins (03:24:00):
Oh, did Puffy take an interest in having Suge or anybody killed over here?
Detective D. Long (03:24:04):
Okay. Let's go right to the point.
Higgins (03:24:05):
Yeah. Okay. Explain that to him.
Duane Davis (03:24:08):
Yeah. He was kind of scared of the guy, and we was at a hotel and he was like, "Man, I would give anything for that dude head."
Detective D. Long (03:24:18):
Who are we talking about saying that?
Duane Davis (03:24:20):
He said that in front of our whole-
Detective D. Long (03:24:21):
Which one? Puffy or Zip said it?
Duane Davis (03:24:23):
Puff.
Detective D. Long (03:24:23):
Puff said-
Higgins (03:24:24):
Puffy was talking about-
Detective D. Long (03:24:24):
Okay.
Higgins (03:24:24):
Okay go.
Detective D. Long (03:24:25):
"I would do anything."
Duane Davis (03:24:28):
"For that boy's head."
Detective D. Long (03:24:29):
"For that boy's head." Referring to who?
Duane Davis (03:24:30):
Suge.
Detective D. Long (03:24:32):
Suge, okay. Why? Because he was afraid of him?
Duane Davis (03:24:35):
Yeah. Yeah. He was real scared of him. It was like 45 of us in the room, but he said shit.
Detective D. Long (03:24:42):
In front of everybody?
Duane Davis (03:24:42):
In front of everybody.
Detective D. Long (03:24:45):
Did he ever offer anything?
Higgins (03:24:48):
Or was he implying that he would pay to have it done?
Duane Davis (03:24:50):
Yeah. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:24:51):
He implied it or he said it?
Duane Davis (03:24:53):
He said it.
Detective D. Long (03:24:54):
What did he say?
Duane Davis (03:24:56):
"Oh, shit I'll give anything for that dude head."
Detective D. Long (03:24:58):
I mean, specific dollar-
Higgins (03:25:00):
That's how they talk, but what he's saying, he's saying did he kind of throw out a number, "I'll give a million dollars." I'll give what? Did he say something like that?
Duane Davis (03:25:08):
He was just like, he'd give anything. So, motherfucker millions, two, that be big to some little gangsters on the streets. [inaudible 03:25:18]
Detective D. Long (03:25:19):
But Puff, as far as you know, never said, "I'll give you a specific dollar amount."
Duane Davis (03:25:25):
He didn't say no specific dollar amount, but he wanted the man's head though.
Detective D. Long (03:25:30):
Okay. What about, did Puff have any problems? Puffy have any problems with Tupac?
Duane Davis (03:25:37):
About that? Yeah, that record came out, told him he was a faggot and all that shit.
Detective D. Long (03:25:43):
Right. Did he ever say anything specific? Did Puff ever say anything specific about Tupac that you know of?
Higgins (03:25:51):
Put it this way. What he's saying is you know you have the issue with Suge and that he wanted Suge dead, but did Puffy seem to express an interest in Tupac? Maybe something happening to Tupac? Did he say, "Punk-ass Tupac?"
Duane Davis (03:26:08):
Yeah, "Fuck that, dude." Yeah. That he think we've got to have something done after all this shit started.
Higgins (03:26:12):
Oh, so Tupac was the one that started-
Duane Davis (03:26:13):
Yeah, after this shit started.
Higgins (03:26:13):
That's what he's asking for. I'm sorry.
Detective D. Long (03:26:17):
That's okay. I'm understanding. The night of the events in Las Vegas...
Duane Davis (03:26:30):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:26:31):
Did Puffy ever come up? Did anything in the conversation with Puffy come up? I'm sorry, did I not-
Dupree (03:26:40):
[inaudible 03:26:40]
Higgins (03:26:40):
No. If we were at my office, we would be having snacks and anything you want, because I got it like that. But over here, it's low budget. You don't even get windows in the room.
Detective D. Long (03:26:50):
What do you think he's so thin for?
Higgins (03:26:57):
Oh, I'm telling you, you start messing with him, you'll starve to death. Get some water. Okay, go on.
Detective D. Long (03:26:58):
Did anything come up about Puffy that night?
Duane Davis (03:27:00):
That night?
Detective D. Long (03:27:02):
Yes.
Higgins (03:27:03):
About Puffy that night?
Detective D. Long (03:27:04):
Yes. Did any conversation about Puffy-
Higgins (03:27:07):
The night of?
Detective D. Long (03:27:07):
The night of the incident in Las Vegas.
Higgins (03:27:08):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:27:09):
After?
Higgins (03:27:10):
The shooting.
Duane Davis (03:27:11):
During the shoot?
Detective D. Long (03:27:12):
After anything.
Duane Davis (03:27:14):
After, we was like, "Damn, we can get paid now."
Detective D. Long (03:27:16):
Okay.
Higgins (03:27:17):
From, and that was meant [inaudible 03:27:19]-
Duane Davis (03:27:19):
Well, we didn't even know the boy was shot.
Detective D. Long (03:27:19):
But you were paid-
Duane Davis (03:27:19):
Until the report came back.
Higgins (03:27:22):
Right. But when you say paid, been paid by Puffy, right?
Duane Davis (03:27:24):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:27:25):
Paid by Puffy to Orlando and your crew.
Duane Davis (03:27:29):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:27:30):
Were there ever any-
Duane Davis (03:27:33):
Did he ever give us some money?
Detective D. Long (03:27:34):
Okay. Did he ever give you any money?
Duane Davis (03:27:35):
No, he didn't ever give us no money.
Detective D. Long (03:27:38):
Was there any efforts made-
Higgins (03:27:41):
Conversations.
Detective D. Long (03:27:41):
... to get paid by Puffy?
Duane Davis (03:27:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:27:45):
Okay. And tell me about that.
Duane Davis (03:27:48):
We went and met Zip a few months afterwards.
Detective D. Long (03:27:51):
Zip being? And where was-
Higgins (03:27:52):
Same one who gave Zip [inaudible 03:27:54].
Duane Davis (03:27:54):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:27:55):
Where'd you all meet at?
Duane Davis (03:27:59):
At the Hot Wing place on LaBrea and 3rd Street. [inaudible 03:28:04]
Detective D. Long (03:28:06):
Describe the conversation.
Duane Davis (03:28:08):
We like-
Detective D. Long (03:28:11):
Is it just you all and Zip or is there more?
Duane Davis (03:28:12):
It's just me and Zip. They had raided our house, took all our guns. We really need that money now, you know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (03:28:24):
Mm-hmm.
Duane Davis (03:28:24):
We've got millions of dollars to go against us. You know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (03:28:24):
Right.
Duane Davis (03:28:27):
Yeah. He never did get back with us.
Higgins (03:28:28):
No, what did he say when that conversation took place? Did he say, "I'm going to check with you, I'm going to check with Puffy?"
Duane Davis (03:28:35):
Yeah, "Should I get back on it? Yeah. I'll make sure we send you all some money."
Detective D. Long (03:28:39):
Zip said he was going to make sure who sent you some money?
Duane Davis (03:28:41):
Puff.
Detective D. Long (03:28:43):
Puff, okay. And was there any talk about how much?
Duane Davis (03:28:46):
No, he didn't say how much. I had a lot of money back then also.
Higgins (03:28:52):
He didn't ask you that question.
Duane Davis (03:28:55):
What you asked?
Detective D. Long (03:28:57):
That's okay. Did Zip ever indicate how much he was going to try to get from Puff?
Duane Davis (03:29:00):
No, he never indicated. We just need some money.
Detective D. Long (03:29:00):
Okay.
Higgins (03:29:05):
But the point is, since you mentioned you had your money, you meant money, they're sending Orlando the money for what they did?
Duane Davis (03:29:13):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:29:13):
Oh, okay.
Detective D. Long (03:29:16):
Okay. Now you think Zip got paid by Puff at some point?
Duane Davis (03:29:19):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:29:20):
What makes you think that?
Duane Davis (03:29:24):
After I got out the feds, I went and met him ,maybe like two years.
Detective D. Long (03:29:29):
What do you mean you got the feds?
Higgins (03:29:30):
He was in the feds visiting for a while.
Detective D. Long (03:29:33):
Oh, okay. When did you go in?
Higgins (03:29:37):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:29:37):
'98.
Detective D. Long (03:29:37):
When did you come out?
Duane Davis (03:29:40):
2002.
Detective D. Long (03:29:40):
Okay. And you think during that time period Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:29:45):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:29:46):
By Puffy?
Duane Davis (03:29:47):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:29:48):
Because when you got out, what did you notice?
Duane Davis (03:29:50):
What's that?
Higgins (03:29:51):
When you got out, what happened that made you feel that Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:29:57):
A big nightclub with a three story, shit. All kinds of cars, everything.
Detective D. Long (03:30:01):
Okay.
Higgins (03:30:03):
In that four years he ended up all that shit, man.
Duane Davis (03:30:05):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:30:05):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (03:30:07):
Did you...
Duane Davis (03:30:08):
Did I ever try to get in contact with him?
Detective D. Long (03:30:10):
Yes.
Duane Davis (03:30:17):
No, he never called back.
Higgins (03:30:18):
You left a message, and he never called you back?
Duane Davis (03:30:20):
Yeah. Called Puff too when I got out.
Higgins (03:30:25):
Puffy didn't call you back?
Duane Davis (03:30:27):
No. But I seen him after everything went down. I seen him.
Detective D. Long (03:30:30):
You saw who?
Duane Davis (03:30:31):
I seen Puff at the House of Blues.
Detective D. Long (03:30:31):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:30:37):
He came to the car. Then he acted scared of us.
Detective D. Long (03:30:41):
I would be too. If I owed you money, I'd be afraid of you.
Higgins (03:30:46):
Well, yeah, he didn't want to pay too, so what'd he say when he came to the car?
Detective D. Long (03:30:49):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:30:51):
He was just... He was telling us come meet him at the hotel room, the Beverly Hilton. Asked if we have some weed and stuff. But that motherfucker, he never took his eyes off of us at all.
Higgins (03:31:06):
And you all didn't go to the hotel?
Duane Davis (03:31:07):
No, we didn't go up there.
Detective D. Long (03:31:09):
You're a real gangster. He's a rapper.
Higgins (03:31:15):
Hold on, let me stop you.
Detective D. Long (03:31:16):
What I'm trying to-
Higgins (03:31:17):
You really don't consider yourself to be real gangster, either.
Duane Davis (03:31:20):
I'm a grandfather. I've got four grandkids. My son tried to go to the NFL, be raw.
Detective D. Long (03:31:23):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:31:23):
You have seen him [inaudible 03:31:28] crazy.
Higgins (03:31:23):
You're a family man, right?
Duane Davis (03:31:23):
Yeah, [inaudible 03:31:32].
Higgins (03:31:23):
Gang history, but you're not a gangster, right?
Detective D. Long (03:31:23):
No. Okay. You're not a gangster today. I understand that.
Higgins (03:31:23):
[inaudible 03:31:36]
Detective D. Long (03:31:36):
What I'm saying, what I'm trying to get across is he's a rapper. I mean, he's not-
Duane Davis (03:31:44):
Yeah, we street dudes.
Detective D. Long (03:31:44):
You're street dudes.
Duane Davis (03:31:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:31:45):
And I mean, you lived the life.
Duane Davis (03:31:46):
Yeah, what they rap about.
Detective D. Long (03:31:47):
Right, exactly. I would definitely, if I owed you money, I would be afraid too.
Duane Davis (03:31:53):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:31:53):
I mean, you've got a group of people that would jump at your bid, right?
Higgins (03:32:02):
Not necessarily-
Detective D. Long (03:32:04):
I'm not going. What I'm trying to say is, it's understandable.
Duane Davis (03:32:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Higgins (03:32:10):
There's people around you that do things necessarily whether or not you tell them. Try to impress. Things happen, right?
Duane Davis (03:32:13):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:32:13):
Sure.
Higgins (03:32:13):
To impress you.
Detective D. Long (03:32:16):
That makes sense to me.
Higgins (03:32:17):
Oh, okay.
Detective D. Long (03:32:23):
What I'm trying to build to here is did he make any comments or say anything at that time trying to make things right with you?
Higgins (03:32:30):
When he approached the car, you knew that he knew it was a problem. So, did he say, you think that's why he said, "Come to the hotel," or what?
Detective D. Long (03:32:36):
Did he indicate anything about Zip? Did he say that there was a-
Duane Davis (03:32:43):
No, he didn't say nothing. He just backed up. He just was in the window, talking to me. He just backed up, and there was girls all over him. He still, he watched that car. He wasn't paying attention to none of them girls. And almost tripping with her. I was like, "This motherfucker is scared."
Detective D. Long (03:32:54):
Well, do you think that he went to the hotel? You went to the hotel, he was going to pay you all, or why you all didn't go? You had some money there. Why didn't you go get your money?
Duane Davis (03:33:01):
Because we was all doing something else. With that dude, Long P.
Detective D. Long (03:33:06):
Oh, you all was doing your own thing?
Duane Davis (03:33:14):
Yeah, we was doing some shit.
Detective D. Long (03:33:14):
Okay. I understand.
Duane Davis (03:33:14):
MC, Long P.
Detective D. Long (03:33:14):
But you believe Zip got paid?
Duane Davis (03:33:17):
That's the word on the street.
Detective D. Long (03:33:19):
That's the word on the street. Did you ever had a conversation with Zip about the blockage and the payment route?
Duane Davis (03:33:28):
I ain't seen Zip since then.
Detective D. Long (03:33:30):
And you haven't talked to Zip?
Duane Davis (03:33:31):
Since I seen him at the Hot Wings. I seen him this summer. I wanted to ask the motherfucker where my motherfucking money at.
Detective D. Long (03:33:43):
But you didn't have a conversation with him? Is what you're saying?
Higgins (03:33:48):
That's what he's asking. You wasn't able to talk to him about your money later [inaudible 03:33:50]? The answer's no?
Duane Davis (03:33:52):
Not really, no.
Higgins (03:33:52):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (03:33:53):
Okay. What is T. Brown-
Higgins (03:33:56):
I'm sorry.
Detective D. Long (03:33:57):
What is T. Brown doing these days?
Duane Davis (03:34:01):
T. Brown doing? Selling a little weed.
Detective D. Long (03:34:04):
Okay. That's about it?
Duane Davis (03:34:04):
Yeah. And he's got two little boys too and some grandkids.
Detective D. Long (03:34:14):
Okay. Is there...
Duane Davis (03:34:17):
You want me to have him call you?
Detective D. Long (03:34:18):
No.
Higgins (03:34:21):
Did he ask you that?
Detective D. Long (03:34:21):
No. And I don't want to go that far, and I don't want to get you in that far.
Duane Davis (03:34:25):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (03:34:26):
What I want to do right now is get my stuff together to see if I can approach him and talk to him. In your opinion, what would be the best way for me to do that? Him?
Duane Davis (03:34:37):
Yeah. He a motherfucker. He broke me down like a single shot.
Detective D. Long (03:34:41):
All right. Detective?
Dupree (03:34:41):
Oh, yeah, whatever.
Detective D. Long (03:34:41):
No, do you have any-
Higgins (03:34:41):
However he could help you.
Dupree (03:34:41):
Oh, no, no, no. I've, no.
Duane Davis (03:34:55):
He know how to do it. He a bad motherfucker. Oh.
Detective D. Long (03:34:55):
Do you have any questions right now specific to Tupac that could help me? Is there anything that I have not asked you that I should have asked you?
Higgins (03:35:04):
Now, see, that's one of them kind of questions that is a hell of a question. But is there anything that you recall looking at the details of what he said that maybe you need to correct or perhaps...
Detective D. Long (03:35:17):
Elaborate on?
Higgins (03:35:18):
Or something that you think? Is there anything that you think is relevant that you need to do that with?
Dupree (03:35:26):
I know something I want to ask. Were you down there to specifically go do something to Tupac or Suge?
Duane Davis (03:35:30):
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all.
Detective D. Long (03:35:32):
You were here for the fight.
Duane Davis (03:35:33):
For the fight. We've been going to the fights.
Detective D. Long (03:35:35):
But after Baby Lane was beat up, you went to the 662 Club to possibly get ahold of Suge. But once that was over, you were done.
Duane Davis (03:35:42):
We were done.
Higgins (03:35:42):
Once that liquor got bought.
Duane Davis (03:35:46):
Yeah, yeah. We were smoking weed and everything.
Higgins (03:35:46):
It was party time.
Duane Davis (03:35:49):
Yeah, it's party time. And Lane was like, "Man, I'm fucked up. They beat the shit out of me."
Detective D. Long (03:35:55):
Yeah. And then Suge and Tupac presented themselves to you, and the opportunity was too great.
Higgins (03:36:02):
For Baby Lane.
Detective D. Long (03:36:03):
For Baby Lane.
Higgins (03:36:03):
Yeah. He couldn't pass on it. Everybody else, like you said, T- brown hesitated. You didn't have a gun in your hand.
Duane Davis (03:36:15):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:36:15):
The other guy had a gun. And Orlando just went crazy.
Detective D. Long (03:36:16):
There's a question. What were your thoughts when Baby Lane started shooting?
Duane Davis (03:36:19):
"Oh, fuck."
Detective D. Long (03:36:21):
I get that, but I mean you... Any other-
Higgins (03:36:26):
It was surprising.
Duane Davis (03:36:26):
It was surprising.
Detective D. Long (03:36:28):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:36:29):
Then when we got home, that little [inaudible 03:36:34]. Every time we seen it, like, "God." Baby Lane was saying, "Keffe D nephew. Keffe D nephew."
Higgins (03:36:37):
[inaudible 03:36:38]
Duane Davis (03:36:37):
I'm like, "Motherfucker." You know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (03:36:46):
Understandable.
Duane Davis (03:36:46):
They didn't know his name. He was like, "Keffe D nephew."
Higgins (03:36:53):
They just kept dropping your name.
Duane Davis (03:36:54):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:36:56):
I saw quite a bit of it. When did you hear that Tupac was dead?
Duane Davis (03:37:03):
On the 7th.
Detective D. Long (03:37:05):
No, he didn't die for...
Duane Davis (03:37:07):
About a week.
Detective D. Long (03:37:08):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:37:09):
Yeah. About the 14th when it was-
Higgins (03:37:10):
[inaudible 03:37:15]
Detective D. Long (03:37:16):
What did you think at that point?
Duane Davis (03:37:18):
"Oh, fuck."
Detective D. Long (03:37:19):
The search warrants have already been hit, right?
Duane Davis (03:37:22):
No, you all came after he died.
Detective D. Long (03:37:24):
That's right. That's right. Okay.
Duane Davis (03:37:27):
After he died. It was after the war broke out between our sets.
Detective D. Long (03:37:30):
Why was Baby Lane shot and killed?
Duane Davis (03:37:32):
Why was Baby Lane shot and killed? The guy owed half a key and ran out the back door.
Detective D. Long (03:37:47):
It had nothing to do with Tupac?
Duane Davis (03:37:47):
Nothing.
Higgins (03:37:47):
You don't think, huh?
Duane Davis (03:37:47):
I tell you what it was about.
Detective D. Long (03:37:47):
What set?
Duane Davis (03:37:47):
He went to sell this dude a half a key.
Higgins (03:37:48):
He went to sell the dude a half a key?
Duane Davis (03:37:50):
Yeah, he went to sell the dude half a key.
Detective D. Long (03:37:50):
Clearly.
Duane Davis (03:37:55):
And the dude went out the back door. Literally.
Detective D. Long (03:37:55):
With the half?
Duane Davis (03:38:03):
With half a key. He acted like he had a customer, "I don't think it in here." Then he went straight to the front door [inaudible 03:38:06] back door. And he happened to run into his ass at that car wash.
Detective D. Long (03:38:09):
Okay.
Higgins (03:38:10):
And they just had a straight shootout.
Duane Davis (03:38:12):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:38:12):
He just shot better than Baby Lane.
Duane Davis (03:38:32):
Two of them died.
Detective D. Long (03:38:32):
They both ended up dead.
Higgins (03:38:32):
Oh, two died, and Baby Lane.
Duane Davis (03:38:32):
And Baby Lane.
Detective D. Long (03:38:32):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:38:32):
Two [inaudible 03:38:33], okay.
Detective D. Long (03:38:32):
Okay.
Duane Davis (03:38:32):
[inaudible 03:38:33]
Detective D. Long (03:38:32):
But it had nothing to do with Tupac?
Duane Davis (03:38:32):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:38:32):
Okay.
Higgins (03:38:34):
Nobody was looking for Baby Lane or anything like that. And I guess-
Duane Davis (03:38:35):
The police.
Higgins (03:38:35):
Okay. But what I'm saying is you wasn't giving him back-
Duane Davis (03:38:37):
No, but-
Higgins (03:38:37):
Can I ask one question?
Duane Davis (03:38:37):
Mm-hmm.
Higgins (03:38:45):
I guess there wasn't no backlash coming from Suge and them towards you all because of that?
Duane Davis (03:38:46):
We were scared to death because Suge had the police killing for him. Got the police in the old city, the mayor, everybody was with the Death Row. So, we was really, you know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (03:39:03):
Stuck.
Duane Davis (03:39:07):
[inaudible 03:39:06] off. Got the police, they ready to go raid our houses, and they know that with Suge they're getting paid. You know what I'm saying?
Detective D. Long (03:39:12):
Right.
Duane Davis (03:39:13):
Yeah. We was at a big disadvantage.
Higgins (03:39:18):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:39:18):
Big disadvantage. Come take our guns, you know what I'm saying? So, we can't fight back. You know [inaudible 03:39:24] police.
Higgins (03:39:24):
So, you all was sort of naked, right?
Duane Davis (03:39:26):
Yeah. They did us bad, man.
Detective D. Long (03:39:28):
How do you feel about Tupac being dead now?
Duane Davis (03:39:32):
I wish it never happened, man.
Higgins (03:39:34):
Right.
Duane Davis (03:39:35):
I swear my life been fucked up ever since. I ain't been able to really be rich no more or nothing.
Dupree (03:39:40):
How do you feel about him being dead though? I know your life probably changed, but how do you feel about him being dead?
Higgins (03:39:43):
See, the point is what he's asking you is you wish it wouldn't have happened. It's a bad situation. It's unexpected. Is really what he want you to tell him, right?
Duane Davis (03:39:50):
Yeah. I wish I never met Puff Daddy, period. I swear to God. He messed up my life, man. I was rich, up under the radar, all that, man.
Detective D. Long (03:40:03):
And that's all gone.
Duane Davis (03:40:05):
It's all gone.
Detective D. Long (03:40:05):
How do you feel about Suge now?
Duane Davis (03:40:06):
Suge? Suge, the same. He hug me, "What's up, big homie?"
Detective D. Long (03:40:15):
Do you believe he knows you were involved? Do you believe? I'm asking for your opinion.
Higgins (03:40:19):
Listen, what he's really, first of all, you got to ask the question, were you involved? But does he believe that you were around the people when he was killed? That you were aware of what was going on?
Duane Davis (03:40:30):
I seen him three days after I got out at the Laker game. Lakers-
Higgins (03:40:34):
He's never mentioned that to you, right?
Duane Davis (03:40:37):
No, he never. He like, "[inaudible 03:40:37], stay strong." Then tell him. My people was telling like a motherfucker, man. Then he asked me do I need anything or anything like that. I'm cool with it.
Higgins (03:40:48):
You told him no, you don't need anything.
Duane Davis (03:40:48):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:40:51):
Okay. What I'm asking is, do you believe he knows or he thinks that Southside Crips killed Tupac? Not you, but does he-
Duane Davis (03:41:02):
Yeah, because he had a meeting too. Said he got $100,000 for our head. Me, Cory, and Kev.
Detective D. Long (03:41:10):
All the leaders.
Duane Davis (03:41:12):
Yeah, he wanted-
Dupree (03:41:12):
$100,000.
Detective D. Long (03:41:15):
Okay. What about for the regular soldiers?
Dupree (03:41:18):
5,000 or something. Yeah.
Higgins (03:41:21):
Oh, he actually gave-
Duane Davis (03:41:21):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:41:22):
So, he had 5,000 on your head?
Duane Davis (03:41:24):
Our homeboy's got some cousins that live in this neighborhood that was at the-
Higgins (03:41:27):
He had 5,000 on your head?
Duane Davis (03:41:28):
100.
Higgins (03:41:29):
Oh, [inaudible 03:41:33].
Detective D. Long (03:41:33):
Yeah. Anyways, he had what?
Duane Davis (03:41:37):
100,000 for me, Cory and Kev, 5,000 for the other gang members. We knew, one of our homeboys got a cousin from over there. And he was at the meeting when he said that shit.
Detective D. Long (03:41:52):
Okay. Do you have any questions that could help?
Dupree (03:41:53):
Nope.
Detective D. Long (03:41:56):
You ask the best questions, and here's anything you could ask that'd help in this investigation, I want to close the Tupac case.
Higgins (03:42:01):
I understand. Is there anything I think of? This is going to go back. But you never had a conversation with Suge about what happened? [inaudible 03:42:16]
Duane Davis (03:42:16):
Never.
Higgins (03:42:16):
Okay.
Detective D. Long (03:42:16):
Not directly.
Duane Davis (03:42:17):
Not directly. I've seen him about four times since that shit happened.
Dupree (03:42:22):
You talk to anybody when they heard about it? Anybody?
Duane Davis (03:42:24):
[inaudible 03:42:26]
Dupree (03:42:26):
Before he rest in peace?
Detective D. Long (03:42:30):
Any of it. What we're going for is corroboration. We're looking for somebody that you told this story to that's the same story you just told us.
Duane Davis (03:42:41):
Never.
Higgins (03:42:41):
You never told nobody?
Duane Davis (03:42:42):
Never. Never.
Higgins (03:42:43):
The first time it was said-
Duane Davis (03:42:44):
Ever. The first time, ever.
Higgins (03:42:48):
Yeah. I'm his lawyer. He never told me.
Duane Davis (03:42:51):
[inaudible 03:42:51] I swear to God. I ain't tell my wife. Nobody.
Higgins (03:42:54):
Not even me. And I've been knowing him forever. Nobody.
Detective D. Long (03:42:58):
You never told your wife?
Duane Davis (03:42:59):
The wife, son, nobody. I told them after I told him-
Detective D. Long (03:43:03):
That's how he's lasted this long is what it is.
Higgins (03:43:06):
He never told nobody. [inaudible 03:43:11]
Duane Davis (03:43:06):
Never told nobody.
Detective D. Long (03:43:10):
Okay. I don't have any other questions, do you?
Dupree (03:43:12):
Nope.
Detective D. Long (03:43:14):
Is there anything else you'd like to add? Anything else you'd like me to know?
Higgins (03:43:18):
I just say that really the reality of it is that it's been on his mind.
Detective D. Long (03:43:23):
Sure.
Higgins (03:43:23):
I've been his lawyer for a long time. I may have suspected something, but he's never told me. And on the faith of trying to resolve it, you want to resolve it.
Detective D. Long (03:43:32):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:43:32):
That's why he's here.
Detective D. Long (03:43:34):
Yeah. No, I've suspected it for many years too.
Higgins (03:43:36):
He's here. And the first time he said it, because he wanted to get it off his chest.
Detective D. Long (03:43:42):
Sure.
Duane Davis (03:43:44):
I already gave what they wanted and everything, the first day. Didn't I tell you all? What you all want? Yeah, so I'm going to give you all what you all want, so you can leave me the fuck alone.
Detective D. Long (03:43:52):
The last couple deals here is, have we threatened you or made you any promises in regard to this conversation we had? Have I made any threats to you?
Duane Davis (03:44:03):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:44:03):
Have I promised you anything?
Higgins (03:44:06):
No.
Duane Davis (03:44:06):
No.
Higgins (03:44:07):
Answer the question.
Detective D. Long (03:44:07):
That's correct. What do you think should happen now?
Duane Davis (03:44:12):
What do I think should happen now?
Detective D. Long (03:44:16):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:44:16):
I don't know.
Dupree (03:44:20):
Let me ask, has anybody promised you anything regarding this case?
Duane Davis (03:44:24):
Yeah. No, no.
Dupree (03:44:26):
Has anybody promised you anything regarding this case?
Detective D. Long (03:44:27):
The murder of Tupac?
Duane Davis (03:44:29):
Has anybody promised you anything in regard to the murder of Tupac?
Higgins (03:44:33):
Keffe.
Duane Davis (03:44:35):
The first thing you said, anything that I-
Higgins (03:44:36):
Keffe, Keffe, listen to the question.
Detective D. Long (03:44:39):
Regarding this case.
Higgins (03:44:39):
There's been no promises on this case that you can recall. Do you recall someone saying something about this case?
Duane Davis (03:44:45):
No.
Detective D. Long (03:44:46):
Okay. That's what I was asking. [inaudible 03:44:47] was asking.
Dupree (03:44:49):
Regarding this Tupac murder, were you ever, to get it clarity, promised anything regarding Tupac?
Higgins (03:44:56):
He's from Las Vegas. He's from the Las Vegas Police Department. Nobody has told you that the Las Vegas Police Department has promised you anything.
Dupree (03:45:04):
Or did any other agency promise you anything regarding the Tupac case?
Detective D. Long (03:45:11):
That's what I'm-
Duane Davis (03:45:12):
Let me just say this. They said anything I talked about...
Higgins (03:45:18):
It's confidential and covered, right?
Duane Davis (03:45:20):
Yeah. They said, "You cannot be charged on it."
Dupree (03:45:25):
No. Regarding the Tupac. I'm talking to you now. Did we ever promise him anything regarding the Tupac?
Higgins (03:45:31):
No, we've never had that conversation about the Tupac case.
Dupree (03:45:34):
Nothing?
Higgins (03:45:35):
About promising. The Tupac case is different than some other issues. But your conversation with him is because you weren't involved in shooting Tupac. That's the reason you're here.
Duane Davis (03:45:49):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:45:50):
That's correct?
Duane Davis (03:45:51):
Right.
Higgins (03:45:51):
You weren't involved in shooting him in any way. Although things happened, it wasn't because you was out there trying to shoot Tupac.
Duane Davis (03:45:59):
I wasn't trying to shoot him.
Higgins (03:46:01):
You had some issues about Suge, and some things was told to you, but it wasn't about shooting Tupac.
Duane Davis (03:46:05):
It wasn't about shooting Tupac.
Higgins (03:46:05):
Okay. Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:46:05):
All right.
Higgins (03:46:10):
In fact, what? And [inaudible 03:46:11] for clarification, I think when, who's the other guy in the back that had the gun? Before it went to Orlando, who had the gun?
Duane Davis (03:46:20):
Big Dre.
Higgins (03:46:20):
If anything, you thought he was going to shoot who?
Duane Davis (03:46:21):
Huh?
Higgins (03:46:21):
You thought he was going to shoot Suge, is that correct?
Duane Davis (03:46:21):
Yeah.
Dupree (03:46:21):
Gotcha.
Higgins (03:46:21):
Okay.
Dupree (03:46:21):
Okay.
Higgins (03:46:28):
I mean, there's issues, but I don't think that they were going after Tupac.
Duane Davis (03:46:31):
I was watching 48 hours. The San Antonio case. This dude, they killed his old man at the park. Killed his old man at the park. So, they went. They picked him up, talked to him and shit. Said, "You ain't going to jail." But they let him go out there, "You can walk out. You good. You going home." Three hours later.
Higgins (03:47:01):
How long does it take you to get home?
Duane Davis (03:47:01):
For me to get home?
Higgins (03:47:01):
From here.
Duane Davis (03:47:01):
Take about three hours to get home.
Higgins (03:47:08):
Don't go home. He knows I'm bad. Don't go home, okay? You don't have to worry about that. But that's not the reason for this meeting. I mean, Keffe, it's a real serious case. And obviously there's issues and there's issues of accountability, but the point is, this is a unique set of facts. If you guys actually, which is true, wasn't shooting, that Orlando had a problem with Tupac, and he grabbed a gun and shot Tupac. And you all wasn't looking for him. It is what it is. That's my opinion. But if you all was looking for Tupac, and that's what your intent was, then I think that there's a different issue.
Duane Davis (03:47:52):
No, we wasn't looking for Tupac.
Dupree (03:47:52):
Okay.
Higgins (03:47:54):
All right. I mean, Orlando was very upset.
Dupree (03:47:55):
I get that.
Higgins (03:47:55):
You know this is what-
Detective D. Long (03:48:01):
[inaudible 03:48:00] believable. It's always been what we believed it to be.
Higgins (03:48:02):
But what amazed me is that's what I couldn't figure out. It seemed like the first thing you thought when I was looking at news is the guy just got beat up. He went and killed him, but I couldn't understand how it wasn't connected that fast.
Duane Davis (03:48:13):
Well, if he went to the hospital-
Detective D. Long (03:48:16):
No, no, we connected it.
Higgins (03:48:16):
I mean, you all knew it, but what about-
Duane Davis (03:48:17):
[inaudible 03:48:20] raiding our houses.
Detective D. Long (03:48:17):
Yeah.
Higgins (03:48:21):
But it just wasn't any-
Detective D. Long (03:48:22):
We were under the impression that there was different people in the car.
Higgins (03:48:26):
Oh, okay.
Detective D. Long (03:48:26):
Some of the same, some of them different, but I've always believed Orlando was the shooter.
Higgins (03:48:31):
Yeah.
Duane Davis (03:48:32):
Was I always in the car?
Detective D. Long (03:48:35):
Hmm?
Duane Davis (03:48:36):
Was I always in the car?
Higgins (03:48:36):
Could have been.
Detective D. Long (03:48:38):
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Higgins (03:48:39):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:48:40):
Your name came up a lot.
Higgins (03:48:44):
Yeah.
Detective D. Long (03:48:45):
And there's a lot of stuff going on. We just...
Higgins (03:48:48):
I mean, I'm more kind of from the street. D is a suburban dude. But the reality of it is that I believe... In his situation, usually gang leaders, people that are top of this gang, they usually have beef, his beef would have been with Suge.
(03:49:06)
Tupac would be, and I'm speaking for Keffe, but Kefee would tell you, it'd be like something minor to him. He wouldn't even be in the same ballpark with him. So, Keffe really wouldn't have a beef with Tupac, because his thing would be Orlando or whatever, whatever, "You all's problem is you need to straighten out on the street."
(03:49:24)
But if it was more him and Suge, that would be him, Suge or somebody in a leadership role would be somebody he would really focus on.
Detective D. Long (03:49:31):
Go ahead.
Higgins (03:49:32):
Because it would be kind of demeaning for him to focus on that.
Detective D. Long (03:49:36):
Here. Yeah, okay. I'm sorry. I'll be right back. Where's your restroom? I'm dying here. Oh, okay, good.
Judge (03:50:04):
Okay. State, who's your next witness?
The State (03:50:06):
Mike Dorsey.
Judge (03:50:06):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (03:50:06):
Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you're about to give in this action shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Michael Dorsey (03:50:44):
I do.
Speaker 6 (03:50:48):
Please be seated. Please state your name and spell your first and last name for the record.
Michael Dorsey (03:50:51):
Sure. I'm Michael Dorsey. And it's M-I-C-H-A-E-L, D-O-R-S-E-Y.
Judge (03:50:58):
Thank you, sir. Whenever you're ready, Mr. DiGiacomo, you may proceed.
The State (03:51:01):
Mr. Dorsey, how would you describe your profession?
Michael Dorsey (03:51:04):
I am a film producer and documentary producer and filmmaker.
The State (03:51:08):
How long have you been doing that?
Michael Dorsey (03:51:09):
About 25 years.
The State (03:51:11):
And do you focus on a particular type of documentary?
Michael Dorsey (03:51:16):
My expertise is probably true crime more than anything else, but I've done all different subject matters.
The State (03:51:22):
I'm going to direct your attention to sometime around 2011, do you decide to make a documentary about the Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls murders?
Michael Dorsey (03:51:36):
It was late 2012. Greg Kading's Murder Rap book had been out for about a year. And at the time I would always have some passion documentary project going on the side. And I just finished the most recent one and I was looking for a new project.
(03:51:50)
And I came across a couple of articles about Greg Kading's Murder Rap book. And they had some quotes from Keffe D's 2008 proffer in them. And it just sounded legit to me. I don't cater to conspiracy theories, but it sounded very well backed up, and it sounded like the real deal.
(03:52:06)
So, I just reached out to Greg Kading and asked if he was interested in making a documentary, and he said, "Yeah." And we went from there.
The State (03:52:13):
So, you reached out to Kading and asked him if you wanted to do the documentary, and he said yes.
(03:52:18)
Correct.
Michael Dorsey (03:52:19):
Describe your process. Well, do you have to do research to do a documentary like this?
The State (03:52:25):
Yes. It took me over two years to make the film in large part because of all the extra research that I did. I needed to interview Greg Kading for it. He was kind of the main person walking us through the story, but I also wanted to make sure that what he was telling me was legitimate. And I also needed to make sure that I covered the whole story so I understand it, and it's not just him deciding what we're going to cover.
(03:52:47)
And as part of that, he turned over to me digital copies of the entire LAPD case file for the Biggie Smalls and Tupac cases and gave me unfettered access to those files so I could check basically on my own what he was telling me.
(03:53:04)
You also, well, maybe you did. Did you check into, Greg Kading's wasn't the first book ever written about this.
Michael Dorsey (03:53:15):
Sure.
The State (03:53:15):
Is that correct?
Michael Dorsey (03:53:16):
That's correct, yeah. I also read Kathy Scott's The Killing of Tupac Shakur, which was the first kind of definitive book on the murders. And then lots of articles on it, of course, because there's been tons of coverage over the years.
The State (03:53:30):
And as you were kind of researching all of this information, what is your ultimate goal in creating a documentary?
Michael Dorsey (03:53:46):
Well, there's the kind of philosophical aspect of it, which is my goal is to get at the truth, but also my goal is to tell the public a good story, something that I think is of the public interest that they should know.
(03:53:58)
And in this case, it seems like They had solved this murder, and yet the world was carrying on like it was still unsolved and we still didn't know what happened. And it was like, "It sounds like we do know what happened." And so, that was my goal was to put that out there.
The State (03:54:12):
Did you have any concerns about accusing anybody of murder?
Michael Dorsey (03:54:17):
Absolutely. I had concerns for my own safety, accusing a gang member from a violent street gang of committing a murder, and then also just my own financial concerns since Puffy was going to be implicated in it as well. Taking on someone who was at the time heading towards becoming a billionaire and who at that time did not have the public backlash that he's faced the last few years. He still had a pretty good, clean image at the time. So, I was concerned about both.
The State (03:54:45):
And based upon that, well, do you eventually make a documentary?
Michael Dorsey (03:54:51):
I do, yes.
The State (03:54:55):
Does anybody sue you?
Michael Dorsey (03:54:57):
I was not sued, no. I was threatened a couple of times.
The State (03:55:00):
Who threatened you?
Michael Dorsey (03:55:01):
Universal Music sent me a note because we used Tupac's Hit Him Up, his disc track against Biggie and Puffy. In the film, we did it using what's called Fair Use Law, which means you don't have to pay for it because it's a documentary. It was just like a cursory check-in from a lawyer at Universal Music, making sure we had permission and our law firm had cleared it for us. So, that was no problem.
(03:55:22)
And then supposedly Puffy's attorney, Weitzman, I can't remember his last name, but he was a high-powered A-list attorney, he sent a note to Apple TV over it because that was one of our distribution companies. And basically saying that the film was defamatory towards his client, Puffy Combs, and that they had like five business days to pull it down.
(03:55:45)
And Apple, they're indemnified, so they don't care. It's up to us. It's up to me as the producer if I want to pull it down or not, because I'm the one that's going to get sued, not them.
(03:55:53)
And we said, "No, we're leaving it up." And that was the last we ever heard of it.
The State (03:55:57):
So, you never wound up getting sued by Puffy, do you?
Michael Dorsey (03:55:59):
We were never sued by Puffy, no.
The State (03:56:03):
Now I want to sort of fast-forward past this, past 2012. Does there come a point in time when you see something that causes you to want to get involved with Mario Diaz?
Michael Dorsey (03:56:20):
Yes. I can't remember the exact date, but it was probably early 2017, would be my guess. Earlier in 2017. I was actually in Tulsa, Oklahoma for a film screening of one of my films. And I was out at dinner, and I think someone sent me a link to this YouTube video.
(03:56:36)
And it was Keffe D in a studio. It's a short video. It's just him saying he's going public. He wants the world to know he was there for Tupac's murder. He says he has cancer. He wants the truth to come out.
(03:56:48)
And I couldn't believe it. I immediately realized. I was at a restaurant. I went outside and started calling people. And I talked to, I think, Greg Kading and some others, and we just thought Keffe has to know he can't go public with this information because it can be used against him. But it sounded like he was going to go and talk publicly about this murder and repeat possibly what he had said in his proffer in 2008.
(03:57:12)
So, we went from there. And then that's when I decided I wanted to get involved with it.
The State (03:57:18):
And ultimately, are you retained as a subject matter expert for the production done that's now known as Death Row Chronicles by E1 Entertainment?
Michael Dorsey (03:57:28):
Yes. I was a technical consultant, and I was an on-camera expert as well. So, they interviewed me.
The State (03:57:40):
I'm going to fast-forward a little bit and come back to that. Subsequent to your involvement in Death Row Chronicles, have you continued to sort of follow these murders, investigations, the case, everything else?
Michael Dorsey (03:58:00):
Absolutely. 2017 when he recorded-
Michael Dorsey (03:58:00):
Absolutely. 2017, when he recorded the interview for Death Row Chronicles in July of 2017, we were actually in production on Unsolved at Universal, which was a scripted series based on the Murder Rap story. So that was happening concurrently. And then he kept going public. He kind of went laid low, I think, for a year and a half or so. And then this book that he had talked about during his BET interview, all of a sudden he's promoting it and saying it's about to come out. And then we find out he's going on VladTV and doing another interview.
(03:58:33)
From then on, for years then, he just kept doing more and more interviews. So I stayed engaged with it. And I also was conducting my own interviews, following up with new people. James McDonald, Mob James, who I believe testified. I conducted his first ever public interview back in 2017. We convinced him to go public and tell his story. Since then, I talked to multiple gang members, gang detectives from Compton, detectives out of the LAPD, anybody who might have information, either Biggie's case or Tupac's.
Marc DiGiacomo (03:59:09):
In particular, back in 2012, when you kind of reviewed the information that was available, was there any information from Trevon Lane or Roger Williams within kind of the case file as of statements that they made about what happened that time?
Michael Dorsey (03:59:29):
In the case files that are statements from them?
Marc DiGiacomo (03:59:31):
Yeah.
Michael Dorsey (03:59:31):
Not really, no. Because Trevon, they don't cooperate with the police. There was an FI card from Buntry, Alton McDonald, who's James McDonald's brother, that they had talked to him at the scene, and he refused to cooperate, but they noticed that there was a bullet hole in his car. And then subsequently, I've interviewed Williams Neckbone. I interviewed him a few months ago. And I've had private conversations with Trevon Lane.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:00:03):
In particular, Buntry is deceased and was deceased-
Michael Dorsey (04:00:09):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:00:12):
... even before you became involved of any project.
Michael Dorsey (04:00:15):
Correct. He was murdered like 20 some years ago.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:00:22):
During the course of the interview with Mr. Roger Williams, a.k.a. Neckbone, do you provide some video that was taken of Mr. Shakur and Suge as they're leaving the Tyson?
Michael Dorsey (04:00:42):
Yes. Yes, I showed him the MGM video of Orlando Anderson getting beat down. Neckbone was one of the men who participated in that beating. And then I showed them the footage of them then fleeing the casino with Tupac in the lead with his bodyguard, Frank Alexander, and Suge. And there was a moment where Neckbone kind of reaches out and punches Trevon, kind of like we got him kind of a thing. And he confirmed for me in my interview that that's what it was, that's what he was doing. And he also told Trevon-
Speaker 7 (04:01:13):
Objection. Hearsay.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:13):
Okay. Let me. I was like-
Judge Carli Kierny (04:01:13):
It is. Well-
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:13):
I'll clarify.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:01:13):
I'll sustain and you'll rephrase. So strip it.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:25):
As you see both Neckbone and Trevon Lane running through on the video, you can see Neckbone kind of either dap or punch Trevon?
Michael Dorsey (04:01:36):
Yes, exactly.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:37):
And at that point, Trevon Lane removes the black hat he's wearing.
Michael Dorsey (04:01:40):
His fedora that he had on, yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:43):
I was actually talking about somebody else's video. Was there some high quality video-
Michael Dorsey (04:01:49):
Oh, I got you.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:01:49):
... that Tupac showed leaving the-
Michael Dorsey (04:01:52):
Yes. Yes. When they first leave the arena, there was some footage. I think it was actually shot by BET. A BET photographer was there and shot. And it's footage of them coming out of the arena. And Tupac is in his gold shirt, and he's all hyped up because he just watched his friend Mike Tyson knock somebody out. He's playing to the camera. And he says something about if you go to jail, you come out and you win, or something like that, because Tyson had also gone to prison and Tupac had as well. So you could tell he was just super amped up.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:21):
And then last night, we watched that portion of that video out of your Neckbone interview.
Michael Dorsey (04:02:28):
Right.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:30):
And then that one, Neckbone is the person speaking while that video's playing.
Michael Dorsey (04:02:34):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:35):
All right. Judge, I have marked in my hand the clip of just the Tupac and Suge at the MGM coming out of the fight. It has the audio removed.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:02:48):
Okay.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:49):
It's just the video portion of that I'd offered at this time.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:02:52):
Any objection?
Speaker 7 (04:02:53):
No objection.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:02:53):
Okay. You may play it. Or sorry, it's admitted. You may publish.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:57):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:02:59):
Did you give them-
Marc DiGiacomo (04:02:59):
154.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:03:00):
154.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:03:00):
I moved to my exhibits. They disappeared. Both Suge and Mr. Shakur are both readily identifiable from this video, correct?
Michael Dorsey (04:03:36):
Right. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:03:36):
And this is the shirt that... Well, the clothing that both of them are wearing as they come out of the arena?
Michael Dorsey (04:03:44):
Yes. And there's photos of them beforehand in the casino in the same outfits.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:03:59):
May I approach, Judge?
Judge Carli Kierny (04:04:00):
You may.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:05):
Showing you what's been marked as State's Proposed Exhibit number 149. Have you ever seen the photograph of these men sitting on the curb sometime after the homicide occurred?
Michael Dorsey (04:04:20):
Yes, I've seen this.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:21):
And do you recognize the people that are in those photos?
Michael Dorsey (04:04:25):
I recognize them more because I've been told who they are, although Trevon Lane is very easily recognizable because I know that that's the outfit that he was wearing that night.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:32):
Okay.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:04:33):
Mr. Cole, can you take down the listing of what's on that thing?
Speaker 8 (04:04:39):
Oh, sorry.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:04:39):
You may proceed.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:41):
Thank you. So that's Trevon Lane. We've previously heard testimony that's E.D.I Mean and Leonard Jefferson.
Michael Dorsey (04:04:46):
Correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:47):
Have you ever spoke to Kevin Woods?
Michael Dorsey (04:04:49):
I've never talked to Kevin Woods.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:50):
And do you even know who Kastro is?
Michael Dorsey (04:04:52):
Yes. Another member of the Outlawz.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:53):
Okay.
Michael Dorsey (04:04:54):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:04:55):
Were Kevin Woods, Kastro, and E.D.I. Mean all members of the Outlawz?
Michael Dorsey (04:04:59):
No. Kevin Woods, I believe, was one of the Pirus. Also known as KW.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:03):
So just Kastro and E.D.I Mean are-
Michael Dorsey (04:05:05):
As far as. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:06):
Okay. You got a little bit ahead of me, but during your research into this case, you had access to the Biggie Smalls file. Alton McDonald is actually known as Buntry, correct?
Michael Dorsey (04:05:31):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:32):
And you mentioned this. There was a record of the fact that he was field interviewed by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department in the night of the homicide on Flamingo.
Michael Dorsey (04:05:45):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:46):
And at that time he was driving a black '96 Toyota Supra?
Michael Dorsey (04:05:50):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:51):
And it had a bullet hole in it?
Michael Dorsey (04:05:52):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:54):
Did it say where the bullet hole was?
Michael Dorsey (04:05:55):
No, it just said vehicle took bullet impact.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:05:58):
And that he was uncooperative.
Michael Dorsey (04:06:03):
And that he didn't want to cooperate, of course. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:06:07):
Now you've also interviewed Reggie Williams. Is that correct? Or Reggie Wright, Jr.
Michael Dorsey (04:06:13):
Reggie Wright Jr., yes. I interviewed him for a Murder Rap over a decade ago when we were making that movie.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:06:25):
I'll leave that alone. I just want to get a few other pictures into evidence with you. So during the course of the 2008 proffer, there's a mention of Greenblatt's.
Michael Dorsey (04:06:42):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:06:43):
And sometimes it sounds like green backs?
Michael Dorsey (04:06:46):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:06:47):
Were you able to eventually identify that location?
Michael Dorsey (04:06:50):
Yes, it's very obvious. It's a New York deli. It's been there since the 20s. It's very famous. It's on Sunset. It matched the description. And also the way Keefe described the upstairs and downstairs and where the liquor area was, it was clear that he was talking about Greenblatt's.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:07:03):
Showing you what's been marked as State's Proposed Exhibit number 152. Do you recognize that?
Michael Dorsey (04:07:12):
Yes. This is the front of Greenblatt's on Sunset Boulevard.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:07:16):
There's some blue writing on there. You recognize that as well?
Michael Dorsey (04:07:19):
Yes, those are subtitles that I added.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:07:21):
That's a screenshot off of your interview, I think with Neckbone, correct?
Michael Dorsey (04:07:25):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:07:29):
Were you aware of a person by the name of Eric Zip Martin, also known as Equan Williams, maybe Eric Von Zip Martin? He went by a bunch of names.
Michael Dorsey (04:07:39):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:07:40):
Who was he?
Michael Dorsey (04:07:41):
Zip has a long story. He's kind of a Harlem legend, a hustler from Harlem. He was a drug dealer, trafficker. He, I believe, also was trafficked in women, was a pimp. He was an older generation or kind of in between Puffy's generation and Puffy's father. Puffy's father was also involved in the street business there in New York and was murdered when Puffy was very young. And Zip Martin was kind of like, he was a mentor to Puffy when it came to the street life and wanting to kind of have that gangster persona. And supposedly he may have also been dating Puffy's mother at some point.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:08:22):
Was he the godfather to anybody associated with this particular case?
Michael Dorsey (04:08:26):
Yeah, he was supposedly godfather to Biggie's son, Chris, CJ.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:08:31):
And is that the son with Faith Evans?
Michael Dorsey (04:08:35):
Yes, I believe so. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:08:38):
When Biggie died, was there a memorial that gave certain credit to Zip?
Michael Dorsey (04:08:45):
Yes. Actually on his second album that came out a few weeks after he died, Life After Death, in the back, there's a thank you, a list of all the people to thank. And in there is Uncle Zip. And then in parentheses it says the spiritual advisor.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:09:04):
I'll put this in, 151. Showing you what's been marked as State's Proposed Exhibit number 151. Do you recognize that?
Michael Dorsey (04:09:12):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:09:12):
And who are those two individuals?
Michael Dorsey (04:09:14):
That is Sean Puffy Combs on the left and Zip Martin on the right. And this was supposedly at a New Year's Eve party in '94 or '95.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:09:22):
Move to admit 151.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:09:24):
Any objection?
Speaker 7 (04:09:24):
Your Honor, [inaudible 04:09:25]?
Judge Carli Kierny (04:09:24):
You may. Pursuant to the conversation at the bench, no objection. It'll be admitted. You may publish if you want.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:10:17):
Thank you.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:10:17):
Whatever you wanted to do with it.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:10:22):
I think we got to do both. I'm not sure I did 152 yet. So, 152. That's one of the shots that you had of Greenblatt's?
Michael Dorsey (04:10:36):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:10:37):
And then 151, that's Mr. Martin?
Michael Dorsey (04:10:46):
Yes, on the right.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:10:47):
And who's the guy on the left?
Michael Dorsey (04:10:49):
Left is Sean Puffy Combs.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:10:56):
Now, Mr. Diaz testified about sort of the production of the Death Row Chronicles. And initially, were you contacted by Cliff Mogg as well?
Michael Dorsey (04:11:17):
I reached out first to Las Vegas Homicide, and then Cliff Mogg reached out to me after that.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:11:22):
Okay. He had contact with you. And just since this is one we put up in our opening, showing you State's Proposed Exhibit number 61. Do you recognize that guy?
Michael Dorsey (04:11:31):
That is Zip Martin.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:11:31):
Move to admit 61.
Speaker 7 (04:11:36):
No objection, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:11:36):
Also submitted.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:11:42):
And do you essentially conduct an interview with Detective Mogg?
Michael Dorsey (04:11:46):
Yes, he came out to Los Angeles and interviewed me in my home with his sergeant.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:11:51):
Was there a request for all of the underlying supporting raw data/footage associated with the two interviews you were involved in 2017?
Michael Dorsey (04:12:09):
For Death Row Chronicles?
Marc DiGiacomo (04:12:10):
Yes.
Michael Dorsey (04:12:11):
Yes. It wasn't so much a request, but I told him, I figured you could just subpoena the raw footage and get it. I didn't know yet that there's laws and that it's kind of up to the entertainment companies if they want to turn over footage or not. They can't be compelled to. So that's what I though would happen. I though I'll let him know about this and then it's his to do with what he wants.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:12:32):
Sometime after the indictment of this case, did you learn that we were unable to acquire the raw footage of that?
Michael Dorsey (04:12:42):
Yes. And I was even included on some of the email threads at my request because I was also reaching out to Paramount. Paramount Pictures attorney got involved. Paramount owns BET. And I think someone at E1 got involved. And they were initially saying no. And since I work in the business, I was trying to work it out with them, how they could get that footage over. And then ultimately they did give permission for it to be shared.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:13:08):
Did you have footage... Or I shouldn't say footage. Did you have your own raw data at that point that was also authorized to be disclosed?
Michael Dorsey (04:13:18):
I did.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:13:19):
Explain to us how the setup was.
Michael Dorsey (04:13:21):
Sure. So my reason for being hired onto Death Row Chronicles was a technical consultant, but mainly it was tied to Keefe's interview. I helped Mario Diaz write the questions. And then on both days of the interviews, they had me in an office there at E1's studios or their office building down the hall from where the production studio was, where Keefe was being interviewed. And they gave me a headset so I could listen live to the interview as Mario was conducting it. And then I was texting follow up questions to Mario while he was in the studio as things came up.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:14:00):
Were you recording your audio feed?
Michael Dorsey (04:14:02):
Yes. I took the headphones off and I made my own recording with my phone.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:14:10):
At some point, do you learn that the only thing that we could acquire from E1 Entertainment was an actual transcript of the tapes themselves, but not the tapes?
Michael Dorsey (04:14:22):
Correct. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:14:24):
And then did you provide us the audio that you had done during these two interviews?
Michael Dorsey (04:14:33):
Yes. Once you subpoenaed me, I sent over my audio.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:14:36):
And are you aware of either gaps in your audio or additional audio that wouldn't have been in the transcripts?
Michael Dorsey (04:14:48):
Yes. There's sections where I was rolling, and I'm sure they were rolling also, but they're only going to transcribe... The reason of making a transcript for a production is the pertinent parts of the interview that they're actually going to edit into the show. So it's so that when the producers go to figure out how they're going to edit the show together, they have a transcript and they can tell the editors, use this segment here, use this segment here, use this part. There's a lot of chit-chat stuff that I had, that they might have also had, that was not transcribed because it was just chatter. It's never going to be used in the show. There are also some sections where I probably was rolling when they might have already cut.
(04:15:27)
And lastly, there's a few moments where in the first interview, one of my audio recordings, the file was corrupted. So I lost about the last four minutes of it. And then during some of the interviews, I didn't always know when they would be done with a break, when they had come back and were already rolling again. So it was a few times when I missed maybe the first few minutes of a new segment.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:15:49):
Let's start with the transcripts. State's Proposed Exhibit number 113 and 114. First of all, you recognize the front page as being the original transcripts that were generated off the tapes?
Michael Dorsey (04:16:10):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:16:10):
And then did you become aware that we took your audio, transcribed the additional audio, and then anything that was not on your audio, we highlighted in yellow to identify you didn't have it, but it shows in the transcript?
Michael Dorsey (04:16:25):
Correct. Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:16:26):
And so these should be as complete a record as we have between your audio and those videotapes for the two interviews that occurred in July of 2017.
Michael Dorsey (04:16:39):
Yes, correct.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:16:40):
Judge, I move to admit both 113 and 114.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:16:41):
Any objection?
Speaker 7 (04:16:41):
Your Honor, may I approach?
Judge Carli Kierny (04:19:11):
Yep.
(04:19:11)
All right. Pursuant to our discussion at the bench, the transcripts will be admitted over objection. And that will be as 114 and 15? 114 and 115?
Marc DiGiacomo (04:19:18):
113 and 114.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:19:19):
113 and 114. Thank you.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:19:24):
Mr. Dorsey, I want to give an example to the jury about what we're talking about.
Michael Dorsey (04:19:29):
Sure.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:19:31):
Here. And let me go back here. Let me put my glasses on. We are in 113. So if we go to 113 and we roll down to about page 28. Oop, there it is. It's page 28. Time cut off is about 30 minutes and 16 seconds in. The yellow part is the part that's not on your audio tape. Is that correct?
Michael Dorsey (04:20:33):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:20:34):
And that was transcribed from the original videos that we don't have?
Michael Dorsey (04:20:39):
Right.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:20:41):
And everything else that's unhighlighted, we should hear on the audio.
Michael Dorsey (04:20:44):
We should hear, yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:20:46):
Okay. And that would be the same for both of these?
Michael Dorsey (04:20:48):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:20:57):
In addition, I've had marked both the June... I'm sorry, July 17th, 2017 as 121, and the July 18th of 2017 as 122. I'd offer those as well.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:21:16):
Any objection?
Speaker 7 (04:21:17):
No objection, Your Honor.
Judge Carli Kierny (04:21:18):
So admitted.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:21:22):
And we only got about 40 minutes, Judge. So I would start 1:21. Okay.
VIDEO (04:21:25):
I grew up in the city of Compton. Yeah. South Side over there in Compton. College right there.
(04:22:06)
And what was Complete like growing up?
(04:22:06)
When I first started, Compton was when I was a... I went here when I was like three and it was literally white, all white. He was the first Black family on the street.
(04:22:18)
Where did you move from?
(04:22:22)
We moved from Watts.
(04:22:23)
Oh, right. But you still grew up in LA.
(04:22:25)
Yeah.
(04:22:25)
Don't think he's lying yet.
(04:22:28)
And how did it change during the '60s, '70s and '80s? In the '60s, it was mostly all white, but '69, '70, '71, they started moving out and more Black families was coming in.
(04:22:44)
And then when did it get dangerous? When did it start getting dangerous?
(04:22:49)
When did it start to get dangerous?
(04:22:49)
Yeah.
(04:22:49)
About '72, '73. What happened?
(04:23:05)
The gangs started coming in. The first Crips were the Grandees and the Boot Hills right there on Alondra. Right there, Grandee Crips.
(04:23:15)
So you were part of that history, the initial sort of gang.
(04:23:21)
Yeah, I was there when they first started.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:23:30):
That noise. And I'm stopping this at one minute and 45 seconds, it looks like.
Michael Dorsey (04:23:35):
Yes.
Marc DiGiacomo (04:23:36):
Was that your phone making noise?
Michael Dorsey (04:23:38):
That is my phone making that noise. Yes. And there's going to be a few times here where you're going to hear me loudly texting, and you're not going to be able to hear the audio very well because I was probably texting a message to Mario in that moment. So sometimes it cuts out in this first interview.
VIDEO (04:23:49):
Did you have any pressure to join gangs?
(04:23:49)
No. When I was in fourth grade, my teacher, his name was Doc Green,
Speaker 7 (04:23:49):
Your Honor, may we approach?
Judge Carli Kierny (04:23:49):
You may.
VIDEO (04:27:54):
I run the footballs into the game and the basketballs. That kind of changed my life right there. Made me more advanced because I was hanging around older guys and stuff like that.
(04:27:54)
Later on, that changed, right?
(04:27:54)
Later on that changed.
(04:27:54)
Who were your friends later on? Who do you hang out with?
(04:27:54)
Who I'd hang out with?
(04:27:54)
Yeah. What did you do to make money?
(04:27:54)
I was shooting dice at first. Gambling when I was in junior high. High school gambling.
(04:27:54)
So tell us about South Side Crips. How did you end up affiliated with them?
(04:27:54)
Well, the first day that South Side started, I happen to be at the school when it started. All my big homies, brothers, and they was there. I was shooting dice and my dad rolled by and he seen me. "What the hell are you doing?" I said, "Shooting dice." He said, "Shooting dice?" Like, yeah. He said, "Get your ass in this car. Come on with me." So I really got a whooping for trying to be a South Side. I was about nine years old when it first started.
(04:28:49)
That early?
(04:28:49)
Yeah.
(04:28:51)
How'd you work your way up?
(04:28:53)
How did I work my way up?
(04:28:54)
Yeah. Shit. I don't feel comfortable saying this whole thing.
(04:29:06)
No, no, no. You don't have to go into detail. You can just say-
(04:29:07)
He doesn't talk too much about his gang affiliation and what he did to get his way up.
(04:29:13)
Okay. Ask the question again.
(04:29:18)
Yeah. How'd you work your way up to that organization?
(04:29:20)
What, to be the boss?
(04:29:24)
Yeah.
(04:29:29)
Well, money, really. You know what i;'m saying? Money gave me the power and stuff like that. The dope game really. The dope game. One of the coaches at Compton College, I was 17 years old. You got to start with that.
(04:29:50)
So you were respected.
(04:29:50)
Yeah.
(04:29:50)
You were a respected guy on the streets?
(04:29:50)
Yeah.
(04:29:50)
Because when I was in high school, I was in this program called Upward Bound at UCLA.
(04:30:03)
Called what?
(04:30:04)
Upward Bound Program.
(04:30:05)
Shit. I was kind of a smart student and stuff like that. And on the weekend-
(04:30:09)
I got a fans program.
(04:30:10)
... I come home, and all my homies, they was kind of rolling. I was up there eating them noodles and doodles. You know what I'm saying? I should have stayed there going to UCLA, but I stopped, got in the game, started selling drugs. Could have gone to college, gone to games instead.
(04:30:33)
Stop that for now. Yeah. Can we turn that over? Yeah. Well, just continue. Yeah, can you keep an eye on that now? I'm not paying attention yet.
(04:30:37)
Oh, you talked about him.
(04:30:37)
I was like nine years old, 10 years old. 10, playing Pop Warner Football. I was running back on the team and he was the center, hiked the ball. His dad and his uncle was our coach. So after we would win games, we would go over their houses, go swimming, have hot dogs, chips and everything. And I was like the star running back, running all the touchdowns. Number 20.
(04:31:35)
And Suge was what??
(04:31:50)
Huh?
(04:31:50)
What was Suge?
(04:31:50)
Suge was the center.
(04:31:50)
He was the center.
(04:31:50)
Yeah, hiked the ball.
(04:31:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right.
(04:31:51)
Yeah.
(04:31:51)
Were you guys tight? Or just knew each other sort of like because you were in-
(04:31:54)
Back then?
(04:31:54)
Yeah, back then.
(04:31:54)
The coaches was real strict. They didn't care. You-
VIDEO (04:32:03):
You know, they didn't care. You bring your parents up there, trying to roughhouse them, they even whoop the parents' ass. The coaches was real strict, so at [inaudible 04:32:15] I was doing a lot of exercises, running a lot of laps, pushups, six inches, [inaudible 04:32:21] and shit. Used to be mad at that motherfucker. His dad is punishing our ass. So, shit, at practice, I used to try to take it out on his motherfucking ass. You know what I'm saying? Hit his ass even harder, you know what I'm saying? He was a little younger than us, maybe a year or two, but I used to punish his ass every chance I'd get, because your daddy fucked it over us, six inches, all the exercises, hard work and shit, pull rings. So really, coach's son used to catch it back then. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:32:49):
He ended up going to-
VIDEO (04:32:49):
UNLV.
Audio: Diaz (04:32:49):
UNLV, right?
VIDEO (04:32:49):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:32:49):
Tell me about that.
VIDEO (04:32:49):
We had lost contact back during that area, when he went to UNLV, and then we lost contact.
Audio: Diaz (04:32:49):
But you didn't continue playing?
VIDEO (04:32:49):
I got in the drug game, yeah. My moms got sick when I was 15, 16 years old, she suffered the cancer. So I really lost my backbone. And when she lost, that really broke my heart. I really needed her. I really kind of needed my moms back then. At that point in time in my life, she could've pushed me to be a better person as far as finishing school and stuff.
Audio: Diaz (04:32:49):
Your pops is around?
VIDEO (04:32:49):
Well, yeah, but he's a good man. Very good man.
Audio: Diaz (04:33:49):
So when did you connect with Suge again? Death Row days?
VIDEO (04:33:58):
I can't tell you all of this. You know what I'm saying?
Audio: Diaz (04:33:58):
Oh, it's okay. Whatever [inaudible 04:34:02].
VIDEO (04:33:58):
Because these dudes is still in the street, homie.
Audio: Diaz (04:33:58):
Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
VIDEO (04:33:58):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:34:07):
Okay. So forget about that now. Talk to me about Death Row. When he started Death Row, were you connected?
VIDEO (04:34:10):
Yeah. I was rolling, yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:34:10):
Business?
VIDEO (04:34:10):
Yeah. I was big time, man. Real big time. I was bigger than him and Puff.
Audio: Diaz (04:34:10):
[inaudible 04:34:24].
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:10):
I've heard that before, at the beginning.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:34:10):
Oh, really?
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:24):
Yeah, because when they started hanging out with Puffy in like '93, '94, they were like-
VIDEO (04:34:39):
I can't say what I want to say because my wife would kill me, you know what I'm saying?
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:40):
You'd go to a concert with him, would Puff pay for your room and be like, "I didn't even pay for my room."
Audio: Diaz (04:34:44):
Tell me what [inaudible 04:34:44].
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:44):
We had more money than they did. They were just a little startup company, music label. We were rolling. What you talking about?
VIDEO (04:34:49):
Well, I was [inaudible 04:34:51].
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:51):
I don't [inaudible 04:34:52] to pay my money to get my hotel room.
VIDEO (04:34:52):
It's a good-ass life, you know what I'm saying?
Audio: Interviewer (04:34:53):
The other way around, if anything.
VIDEO (04:34:54):
Man, I just don't know.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:34:54):
Yeah.
VIDEO (04:34:54):
It's a hell of a life, man. Being the king like that, the boss, all different areas, different states, it's on, may. I was going, man.
Audio: Diaz (04:34:54):
Were you seeing a lot of money from the games?
VIDEO (04:35:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Plenty. Three, four million every month. All...
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:35:28):
They made three or four million?
Audio: Interviewer (04:35:29):
What he's saying.
Audio: Diaz (04:35:34):
How did Suge earn his reputation as a tough guy? That's what everyone thinks about him [inaudible 04:35:37] you know him differently. You know-
VIDEO (04:35:38):
Well, you guys think he's a tough guy.
Audio: Diaz (04:35:39):
That's what I'm saying. Who's the real Suge?
VIDEO (04:35:45):
He went to college. He's just like the rappers. They want to be gangsters, but they're not.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:35:54):
That's a great line.
VIDEO (04:35:56):
You know what I'm saying? College guy, a rapper.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:35:58):
Great line.
VIDEO (04:35:59):
They're not no gangsters. They rap about what we do. You know what I'm saying?
Audio: Interviewer (04:36:12):
He's talking about Suge.
VIDEO (04:36:12):
Real gangsters too. It's like, Tupac, Biggie, guys ain't no gangsters. They just rap them. They don't represent them.
Audio: Diaz (04:36:17):
And Suge?
VIDEO (04:36:23):
Suge had the industry scared. He didn't have the street scared. I knew him since he was a kid.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:36:31):
Great lines.
VIDEO (04:36:32):
I knew he wasn't like that. You guys thought he was like that. I never told you that.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:36:37):
"Suge had the industry scared. He never had the street scared."
VIDEO (04:36:42):
He was a college kid.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:36:42):
That's a great line.
VIDEO (04:36:52):
What college kid you know a gangster?
Audio: Diaz (04:36:52):
But then he's associated with Bloods.
VIDEO (04:36:59):
You ready to get $1 million to be associated with Bloods? Come on, man. He wasn't in the streets, dude. Not at all.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:01):
I want to get the real story, you know what I mean?
VIDEO (04:37:11):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:11):
This is what this film is about.
VIDEO (04:37:11):
It's like the guy knocked him out at the barbershop, the barber. Come on, man. I been knew that. Since we played football together, you find out a person's heart, especially in a football game. Football, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:25):
So tell me more about him. Do you think he was just a... They called him Sugar Bear. Was he really a softy at heart?
VIDEO (04:37:33):
No, his dad's name is Suge that he just took on his dad's name.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:37:34):
I didn't know that.
VIDEO (04:37:35):
They used to call him Big Suge when we was playing football together.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:35):
Oh, that Suge's dad's name.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:37:35):
Is his name [inaudible 04:37:46].
VIDEO (04:37:35):
Yeah, his dad's name is Suge.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:47):
But what was his personality?
Audio: Interviewer (04:37:48):
His name was Sugar Bear. That's what his mom called him. And then it got shortened to Suge.
Audio: Diaz (04:37:54):
You said he wasn't a gangster, but was he a softie at heart? Was he a soft guy?
VIDEO (04:37:55):
Oh, he was a good kid. Went to college. That's what good kids do, go to college.
Audio: Diaz (04:38:00):
Did he have business smarts?
VIDEO (04:38:12):
Evidently he did. He took a record company from the ground up and made it $100 million. You know what I'm saying? He shouldn't have been trying to be no gangster, because you're not no gangster. He should have just stuck with the business. Like Puff did. Stuck with the business, the business side. Jay-Z stuck with the business. But you going to run around here hitting on people. Think you a gangster, then you got some crooked cops running around with you. You know what I'm saying?
Audio: Diaz (04:38:44):
So that was his problem. He was trying to be a gangster when he wasn't?
VIDEO (04:38:47):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:38:49):
And that got him into trouble, you think?
VIDEO (04:38:55):
Really, you can't be out there faking. You know what I'm saying? You really can't be out there faking, at all, because you will get exposed. Streets will eat you up, especially if you weak.
Audio: Diaz (04:39:14):
I got you. So, real quick, just to talk about Death Row again. So when did you first hear about Death Row? When they were doing really well, were you excited? Were you around that whole scene? Dre and Snoop and all that stuff? Or were you not so close to them?
VIDEO (04:39:38):
I was handling my business, man. I wasn't worried about no... You know what I'm saying? Them dudes rapping about what I do-
Audio: Interviewer (04:39:44):
Can that dude out there give me a coke? The dude that's getting our lunch orders?
VIDEO (04:39:45):
They don't really do like that.
Audio: Interviewer (04:39:48):
Is there a way to page that guy?
VIDEO (04:39:49):
They rap about what gangsters do. Not no gang member.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:39:49):
I have no idea.
Audio: Interviewer (04:40:00):
What's his name? You know who that guy is?
VIDEO (04:40:00):
Not no gangbanger. It's a difference.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:40:00):
Okay. If I see him walk by I'll [inaudible 04:40:01].
Audio: Diaz (04:40:00):
When we were talking at my office, you told me that you delivered the money, for the startup money for Suge.
VIDEO (04:40:06):
That's going to... That could get me hurt on y'all, you know what I'm saying? I don't even want to go there with you on that one, all right? For real, though, those dudes are still out there.
Audio: Diaz (04:40:06):
Yeah, I got you.
VIDEO (04:40:06):
And I respect it, you know what I'm saying?
Audio: Diaz (04:40:06):
Did you listen to their music?
VIDEO (04:40:34):
Yeah, it was cool. I liked it, All Eyez On Me. The Chronic. Dr. Dre, he was from my side of town. Him and Easy and Red, they from my side of town.
Audio: Diaz (04:40:50):
Are you a fan of Tupac's music, then?
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:40:51):
He probably knew Red pretty well from-
VIDEO (04:40:51):
Yeah, it was cool. I liked it.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:40:51):
... PWA.
Audio: Diaz (04:40:58):
There's stories that your brother Kevin was tight with Easy.
VIDEO (04:41:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:41:04):
Tell me about that.
VIDEO (04:41:09):
They was two youngsters trying to make it in the streets, just doing their thing, making money and stuff. Yeah. And I went to the pen. I went to the pen in 1985, because I used to be in his house when he used to be making all that racket. "Ay-ay-ay-ay." I'm like, "Man, that sounded like some fucking bullshit. Turn that shit off." You know what I'm saying? Shit, but he stuck with it. And I was walking around the track in Tracy. All the time I'm listening to the, "Cruising down the street in my 64," and it was them. I didn't even know. One of my partners came up and I was like, "Man, what's that dude Eric Wright doing?" He's like, "Man, you heard that record? Easy-E, that's Eric." I'm like, "Ed, you're bullshitting." You know what I'm saying? Because they only had two TV stations back then in the prison.
Audio: Interviewer (04:42:04):
Awesome. That is awesome.
VIDEO (04:42:05):
But we was listening to the shit on the radio the whole time. And I didn't know that was Easy. I was like, "Damn, that's him." When I got out, he blew up like a mother with it. Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:42:15):
And Kevin wasn't into music?
VIDEO (04:42:18):
Huh?
Audio: Diaz (04:42:18):
Kevin wasn't into music?
VIDEO (04:42:20):
Kevin went to prison.
Audio: Diaz (04:42:22):
Yeah. Well, he was there with you.
VIDEO (04:42:24):
No, he went to prison after me. He went to prison [inaudible 04:42:28] and blew up, kind of, when that shit came off.
Audio: Diaz (04:42:33):
How many times did you go in?
VIDEO (04:42:34):
How many times I went there?
Audio: Diaz (04:42:35):
Yeah.
VIDEO (04:42:35):
Oh, shit. I did a shooting, and I had a drug case. I went to Tracy, Corcoran. Tracy, Corcoran, and then I went to the feds. I went about four times, went to the pen about four times. This last little bit, they raided my house, came in. The guy didn't know who the fuck I was at first. So he raided my house, looking for my daughter's boyfriend. Like, "Damn." He like, "What you got in here?" Said I got a pistol and some money. He said, "Okay, don't worry. I'm glad you declared it." So the motherfucker got my... I had had on my drawers and my Slingshot T-shirt while he had me in handcuffs. So he went in the room and got my pants, and he found out who the fuck I was. Called me back in there. He like, "Man, I know who you are." He like, "Man, you Keefe D. You leader of this gang." I'm like, "Man, I ain't been out there in about five years." He's like, "Oh, fuck that. I'm taking you to jail." Said, "Man, you ain't a man of your word. You said you're going to declare my shit." "No, no. Got to take you in." So I just did a little bit in Wasco for that, for a little gun case.
Audio: Diaz (04:44:25):
How long ago was that?
VIDEO (04:44:27):
That was in 2015.
Audio: Diaz (04:44:27):
Oh, okay. Stuff with Poole and the whole profit deal, that happened way before.
VIDEO (04:44:36):
[inaudible 04:44:37]
Audio: Diaz (04:44:37):
All right. Let's just move on. Yeah, let's switch it. So this is what I was talking about, you guys to stop and change [inaudible 04:44:49] You're good? You need water? Okay?
VIDEO (04:44:49):
No, I'm good. Yeah [inaudible 04:44:53].
Audio: Diaz (04:45:12):
You want mints?
VIDEO (04:45:12):
Yeah. [inaudible 04:45:15]
Audio: Diaz (04:45:12):
Anyways. Feeling all right?
VIDEO (04:45:12):
Yeah. Hey, you shouldn't. If you walk in-
Audio: Interviewer (04:45:17):
I can't tell if they're just bullshitting right now if they're filming.
VIDEO (04:45:20):
[inaudible 04:45:19] told me they want to [inaudible 04:45:24].
Audio: Diaz (04:45:23):
They didn't give you a [inaudible 04:45:24] last year, though?
VIDEO (04:45:24):
No. He caught it. He sewed it right back together. He told me before I went through the surgery that I was going to have a [inaudible 04:45:33].
Audio: Diaz (04:45:34):
Yeah. It's the location. It's near the rectum. It's above your dude. But it's a pain in the ass.
VIDEO (04:45:43):
Yes, it is.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:43):
I told you I've got two people close to me who passed from that.
VIDEO (04:45:44):
My moms passed from that.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:44):
Your mom?
VIDEO (04:45:48):
That's what scared the shit out of me.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:50):
Oh, so you have a hereditary thing.
VIDEO (04:45:52):
Man.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:53):
Right. Well, I mean, I got mine checked. It's supposed to be at 50. I got my checked at 40. Yeah,
VIDEO (04:45:57):
Yeah. I've been doing one every year now.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:57):
You do it every year?
VIDEO (04:45:58):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:45:59):
I do it every five. All right, let's continue. Are you guys recording? Hey, so there's a bunch of Southsiders in '90s music videos. You guys were in a bunch of music videos. Do you remember which ones you were in?
VIDEO (04:46:16):
Was in Mellow.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:46:25):
Yeah.
VIDEO (04:46:26):
All of Easy One of my brothers was a famous actor in every Easy-E video. He come get him every time Easy used to get a video, pick him up, my older brother, every time. Every single time he had every single Easy-E video.
Audio: Diaz (04:46:43):
So was that fun? Was that something you guys did all the time?
VIDEO (04:47:12):
TV... I didn't want to get exposed like, that because of the type of business I was in.
Audio: Diaz (04:47:12):
But your nephew was in it?
VIDEO (04:47:12):
I was in one, the Mellow video, just that Mellow. That's the only one I ever got in. But other than that, I don't want to be exposed like that. Try to stay under the cover, under the little thing.
Audio: Diaz (04:47:12):
Is it true that you guys provided low riders for some of the video directors?
VIDEO (04:47:12):
Yeah. Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:47:12):
How'd that work?
VIDEO (04:47:24):
We had owned a hydraulic place in Compton called Compton Hydraulics. So people used to call up there and ask for low rider cars. Like, what's the dude name? Batman? Little dude [inaudible 04:47:34] wasn't he named Batman?
Audio: Diaz (04:47:34):
Redman?
VIDEO (04:47:40):
Batman. The little dude, what's his name? Marcus Houston. He used my car for... He was in a little group. What was that little group called? There was three little boys in it, before B2K. Marcus Houston was in it. Yeah, they used my cars. They used to call up to the shop. Different actors and different people used to call up to the shop to get our low riders.
Audio: Diaz (04:48:13):
And then there's that famous Usher video.
VIDEO (04:48:13):
Yeah, that's my 64. Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:48:13):
[inaudible 04:48:13].
VIDEO (04:48:13):
He was a little kid about 14 years old.
Audio: Diaz (04:48:28):
Who? Usher?
VIDEO (04:48:30):
Usher was a little kid about 14 years old, and him and Puff needed to use my car. I let him use it in this video, yeah. He was dancing all over the hood and shit. Yup, I was like, "Damn!" I couldn't believe what I seen in the video, what the hell he was doing. Don't do low riders like that. I guess the East Coast don't know. They don't know about that type of shit.
Audio: Interviewer (04:48:49):
I saw some furniture, I don't know what Usher's doing with [inaudible 04:48:54].
VIDEO (04:48:53):
That was my baby, like my wife [inaudible 04:48:54]
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:48:53):
Doing that video?
Audio: Interviewer (04:48:54):
I think so.
VIDEO (04:48:54):
You know what I'm saying? My low rider was like my kid.
Audio: Diaz (04:48:57):
So they fucked it up, and what happened?
VIDEO (04:49:00):
Oh, I had to go get the whole car repainted. The candy paint. Candy Brown. So they had a $4,000 paint job, they paint the whole car because you can't mix and match to the spots and stuff.
Audio: Diaz (04:49:10):
[inaudible 04:49:11].
VIDEO (04:49:10):
And little Usher was telling his mom, "Mom, can we buy this car?" Can't buy my girl. You know what I'm saying? Not today, buddy.
Audio: Diaz (04:49:31):
So what happened? How did we get to this point? You opened up to the police about what happened in Vegas, at some point. I mean, I want you to be comfortable talking. At some point they cut up with you. Why did you tell them what happened?
VIDEO (04:49:54):
I was up against it. Yeah, because...
Audio: Diaz (04:50:06):
Are you comfortable talking about what they had on you?
VIDEO (04:50:07):
What's that?
Audio: Diaz (04:50:09):
Are you comfortable talking about what they had on you?
VIDEO (04:50:11):
As far as the drugs?
Audio: Diaz (04:50:13):
Yeah, as far as proof.
VIDEO (04:50:17):
You know the FBI don't come unless they have you. They don't come unless they have you. They sent a guy from DC to get me. They formed a task force. But I figure I was targeted behind all Suge friends, you know, the polices and shit. So they kind of... We was fighting an unfair war, you know what I'm saying? The mayor, he was even with Suge. We was sitting at a restaurant, sitting at a IHOP on Compton Boulevard and Alameda here. This motherfucker come in here, acting like he hard, like he a street motherfucker. You tripping, Mayor, you better be your Mayor, you know what I mean? Come in here mad dog, and he knew who the fuck we were, you know what I'm saying? He was just one of Suge's boys. Lot of the Compton Police was just Suge's boys. The Wrights, Reggie, Junior and Senior, yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:51:36):
So before any of that happened, the Tupac murder was in '96. Did you ever feel like it was going to catch up with you?
VIDEO (04:51:55):
What's that?
Audio: Diaz (04:51:56):
Did you ever feel like it was going to catch up with you? That people would come and talk to you about it?
VIDEO (04:52:04):
Man, they had this... The FBI was on it from day one. They was on it from day one.
Audio: Diaz (04:52:10):
Tell me about the first time they talked to you about it. Was it '97?
VIDEO (04:52:11):
What's that?
Audio: Diaz (04:52:15):
Tell me about the first time they talked to you about it.
VIDEO (04:52:22):
Shit, they didn't. They didn't talk to me until I went to the Feds, in '98. They never could catch up, caught up with me. Every time they raided my houses, I was never there.
Audio: Diaz (04:52:37):
And at that time you didn't tell them anything?
VIDEO (04:52:37):
I told them they're barking up the wrong tree. I was just... But they got all the bottom feeders. You know how they do? They get all the bottom feeders. And all of them motherfuckers just sold me out. All of them, they [inaudible 04:53:00] homie. All I did was help them dudes out, had they back no matter what, you know? Make sure their money, their pockets was right, their families was right. I don't know, they sold me out. You know how the feds do. Get all the bottom feeders, lead them up to the big man. Like you roll down a snowball, down a hill. Everything get caught on it, you know? Shit.
Audio: Interviewer (04:53:26):
Just send Mario.
VIDEO (04:53:27):
Yeah, they all motherfuckers.
Audio: Interviewer (04:53:27):
Just sent Mario the first note.
Audio: Diaz (04:53:27):
[inaudible 04:53:27] when you talked to the cops in '98, you said they're barking up the wrong tree. You thought you were done?
VIDEO (04:53:33):
No. When I was in the feds, they came up there every month, making my life all miserable as hell.
Audio: Diaz (04:53:46):
But at least you got, what, 12 years until they caught up with you? 2010 or whatever?
VIDEO (04:54:05):
I was a little smart, I guess. But the dude said he was going to give me promises. That motherfucker was so cold. His eyes was piercing. This fed dude named Holiday. That dude made my life a miserable hell, a living hell, homeboy. Ever since that night, it seemed like dude stuck his head up my ass on me. You know what I'm saying? He's a special agent in charge of the major crime unit. Ever since that night, that dude been making my life a miserable hell, dude. You know I did a five and a half. Motherfucker came up there at least 10 times, told the warden, "You don't know you got up here. He's a serial killer." I'm like, "Oh, fuck." You know what I'm saying? Full of them rappers.
Audio: Diaz (04:55:02):
But what was your relationship with Puffy? How did it evolve? Like you guys were cool, and then you hung out a lot together.
VIDEO (04:55:06):
When he used to come to California, usually we'd meet up and have fun. I was a baler, I had millions. In fact, I was doing better than him back then. You know, shit, having fun, homie.
Audio: Diaz (04:55:21):
Did he ever talk about Suge? Did he ever talk about getting scared?
VIDEO (04:55:35):
He [inaudible 04:55:35] what's that?
Audio: Diaz (04:55:35):
I said, did he ever talk about Suge? Did he ever talk about being scared, and all the bullshit, going back and forth for East Coast, West Coast shit?
VIDEO (04:55:45):
He didn't talk about that till later on in our relationship.
Audio: Interviewer (04:55:48):
That's right.
Audio: Diaz (04:55:49):
That's what I mean. When did we get to that spot, that place where you guys were talking about that?
VIDEO (04:55:55):
Me and my boy Zip was rolling up. He was going to the club one night, rolling up Greenleaf in the neighborhood. His phone rung, and it was like... I guess they must have fucking planned it. Something, I don't know. He's like, "Man, let me speak to Keefe." I got on the phone, said, "What's up, dog?" He's like, "Man, I'm giving a concert out there. Doing a tour on the West Coast." He asked me, was things cool to come out there? I said, "Why it wouldn't be cool?" He like, " The big CEO guy." "CEO guy?" He like, "Yeah, the big guy." I didn't even know what he was talking about. Like a code word for Suge. So I guess he was kind of scared of the guy. So we went to the Irvine Meadows, or something.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:56:32):
Oh, it's the [inaudible 04:56:53].
VIDEO (04:57:06):
He had the hottest song out in the world, you know what I'm saying? Shit, I think that song was One More Chance. We boogieing on the stage and Suge was right there. When I came off the stage, he asked me, "How do you know them?" "Same way I know you!" He took it as that. Shit, then on, after that, we went to the San Diego concert. Matter of fact, the Dallas Cowboys stayed in the same hotel we stayed in. That was cool.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:57:31):
That's good, he's telling the same details as he did 10 years ago. That's [inaudible 04:57:37]
VIDEO (04:57:31):
Deon Sanders, Aikman, and all of them, broads were all around that motherfucker, the Dallas Cowboys.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:57:31):
Football team [inaudible 04:57:40].
VIDEO (04:57:31):
[inaudible 04:57:41] ready for Troy Aikman, you know what I'm saying? All of them would get you in trouble or not, but the broads were all around. Then we went to the Anaheim. That was on Halloween night.
Audio: Speaker 1 (04:57:31):
Perfect. Halloween.
VIDEO (04:57:31):
Halloween. It was cool there, too.
Audio: Diaz (04:58:04):
And he'd just give you passes for everyone, everyone would go to concerts.
VIDEO (04:58:18):
I'd just go give tickets to the little homies. I was riding in the van. I was on the stage with him, what he was doing.
Audio: Diaz (04:58:18):
Did you get to hang out with... Biggie, obviously, right?
VIDEO (04:58:25):
Yeah. Yeah. Biggie was cool. Cool dude and everything like that.
Audio: Diaz (04:58:25):
So when did Puffy start talking about Suge on a real serious level?
VIDEO (04:58:33):
Back there? Well, we already established that.
Audio: Diaz (04:58:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
VIDEO (04:58:54):
Now, what'd you say?
Audio: Diaz (04:58:55):
I said when did he start talking about Suge, on a real serious level?
VIDEO (04:58:58):
Puffy? Oh, being scared of Suge?
Audio: Diaz (04:59:04):
Well, doing something more than that.
VIDEO (04:59:12):
I ain't really comfortable talking about that right now. When you see me in that suit, you got me, all right?
Audio: Diaz (04:59:16):
Okay.
VIDEO (04:59:17):
I went and thought that out.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:21):
Okay. So let's take a break.
VIDEO (04:59:23):
Okay.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:23):
You can go smoke. Can you be back here in 10 minutes?
VIDEO (04:59:27):
Yeah.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:27):
I want to get more before the two o'clock...
VIDEO (04:59:29):
Deadline?
Audio: Diaz (04:59:30):
Yeah.
VIDEO (04:59:30):
Okay. And you got to get me to my wife, because she did take me back. I might've not been here.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:38):
What do you mean? Do you want me to-
VIDEO (04:59:39):
I said I might've not been here for-
Audio: Diaz (04:59:41):
Oh, of course. Yeah.
VIDEO (04:59:42):
[inaudible 04:59:43].
Audio: Diaz (04:59:43):
But she's not down there with you, right? She's in the hotel?
VIDEO (04:59:46):
Yes.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:48):
Oh, okay. I though you meant like-
VIDEO (04:59:48):
Well, I got to take care of her.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:49):
Yeah, of course.
VIDEO (04:59:49):
Motherfucker didn't let me [inaudible 04:59:51].
Audio: Diaz (04:59:51):
After lunch, we'll do a little more and then you're done. Okay?
VIDEO (04:59:53):
All right.
Audio: Diaz (04:59:53):
Is that cool?
Lawyer (05:00:01):
Judge, that's probably a really good breaking point.
Judge (05:00:04):
Where are we at time-wise, just so we can put that on record?
Lawyer (05:00:08):
35 minutes, 17.7 seconds.
Judge (05:00:12):
Okay. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we're going to recess for the day. We're going to have you guys back at 9:30 AM on Monday. During this recess, you are admonished not to talk or converse amongst yourselves or with anyone else on any subject connected to the trial, or read, watch or listen to any report of or commentary on the trial of any person connected with this case by any medium of information, including without limitation, newspaper, television, the internet and radio, or form or express any opinion on any subject connected with the trial, until the case is submitted to you. Please rise for the jury, everyone.
(05:00:38)
For the record, the jury has exited. Mr. Dorsey, you're coming back at 9:30 on Monday. Over the weekend, do not talk to anybody about the case. Do not discuss-
Lawyer (05:01:19):
Judge, can I address that issue?
Judge (05:01:20):
... your testimony with anyone.
Lawyer (05:01:21):
He's still on direct, so myself and Mr. Paul should be allowed to talk to him. He's free to talk to Mr. Stanley as well, but he's not on cross. So I think it's appropriate that we still talk to him.
Judge (05:01:35):
That's the standard definition.
Lawyer (05:01:35):
Well, I get that that's the standard, but it's usually between direct and cross that the witness is not allowed to be... Or after the cross has started.
Judge (05:01:41):
I disagree. You can talk to him about scheduling.
Lawyer (05:01:47):
Okay.
Judge (05:01:48):
All right.
Lawyer (05:01:49):
Your call.
Judge (05:01:50):
Perfect.
Speaker 9 (05:01:50):
[inaudible 05:01:54].
Lawyer (05:01:55):
Which one?
Speaker 9 (05:01:55):
151, this one [inaudible 05:01:58].
Judge (05:01:58):
Were 149 and 152 admitted?
Lawyer (05:02:08):
149 and 15? Are both... 149 is not in.
Judge (05:02:09):
149 is not in? 152 is?
Lawyer (05:02:09):
What is 152?
Speaker 10 (05:02:09):
I don't think 152 is either.
Lawyer (05:02:09):
Sorry, I just [inaudible 05:02:16].
Judge (05:02:09):
[inaudible 05:02:16].
Speaker 10 (05:02:15):
All right, thank you.
Judge (05:02:15):
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 9 (05:02:15):
Okay, hi, I'm [inaudible 05:02:26].
Speaker 10 (05:02:15):
Okay. Yeah, no, that is [inaudible 05:02:30].
Speaker 9 (05:02:15):
Okay. Thank you.
